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Wizard with Axes? What the...

Discussion in 'Wizard' started by MathewPoland, Apr 10, 2012. | Replies: 53 | Views: 6252

  1. MathewPoland

    MathewPoland IncGamers Member

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    Wizard with Axes? What the...

    Hi, guys!:)

    I'm not writing this topic to QQ, but... there is something that seriously bugs me about Diablo III.

    The thing is... that te skill damage is based on weapon damage. Personally, I love the general concept, but... Well, I think that most people will choose their weapons based on the DPS because it has the biggest influence on your damage output. While I don't really mind that, it seems kinda weird to me to see Wizards running around with axes or other melee weapons. The same goes for other classses.

    Some weapons just don't fit the general theme of the class. I wouldn't care if using off-class weapons was something uncommon, but I don't think it will. I fear that most people will use any weapon that gives them the highest DPS and the best mods, regardless of the weapon type. This way many Wizards will end up using melee weapons which... is just weird.

    Is it only me or is it really something Blizz should try to work on before release?

    So far... Patch 16 has limited class-specific mods to class-specific items, which should help with this problem. I fear it's not enough, though. I think Blizzard should introduce some sort of weapon masteries that increase your weapon damage by 10% when using a class specific weapon. This way people would end up using off-class weapons only when they're really superior to other stuff they find.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    In my experience, class-specific items have a better chance of spawning with stats that you want and their DPS is in line with similarly leveled items. I think if you'll have access to an off-hand Orb as a Wizard for example, then there's a good chance that you'll use it.

    The problem in the beta is that the craftable Zweihander is easily attainable and it's potentially the best weapon for 3 out of 5 classes. This won't be a problem come release, because by the time our blacksmith reaches the level when he'll have access to that recipe we'll be clearing content where better items will drop. Until I get a good Zweihander, I almost always use a class specific weapon or off-hand in the beta, if I find one.
     
  3. tvc

    tvc IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    I see your point but do not agree. I love the idea of my wizz carrying a 1-h sword or axe instead of a wand. I hate wands. If it was wand only i would not play wizz. I dont mind at all to carry a 2-h mace. I do agree that 2-h axes will look a bit out of place thou but i dont mind at all. Im sure there plenty of ppl out there that think a 2-h axeweilding wizz would look awesome so let them go for it.

    Also bashiok have already stated that using a wand and a orb has proven to be better in most cases during their internal testing. Judging from that it will be more common to se "normal" wizzards and not 2-h axes on wizz. Also bear in mind that its a matter of castingspeed. 2-h weapons will make the wizz cast slower and do more dmg wich is good for some skills while wand is faster and do a little less dmg.

    And your point with giving ppl bonuses for using class-specific. I do not agree. I love all the choices we have now and there already are an incentive to use class-specific. They give class-specific bonuses. If you use a 2-h axe you will miss out on the already existing +%dmg, manaregen, extra resource etc on orbs and wands.

    Anyways i think you should rest in bashioks post that wand and orb was better vs 2-h in their internal testing because of the existing class-specific bonuses on the items :)
     
  4. Fuzion

    Fuzion IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    Keep in mind spell damage isn't just from DPS. I'm sure you'll find as the game progresses that weapons engineered for your class will result in a much greater increase in DPS rather than the biggest, sharpest sword you can find.

    Not only that, weapons tailored to your class will also have cooldown reductions and other important affixes that will increase the utility, damage or frequency of your spells.
     
  5. MathewPoland

    MathewPoland IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    Yeah, perhaps I'm wrong:) I just want to see how other people feel about it:)

    To be hones, I think I won't mind it either once the game comes out, or even if I do I'll get used to it at some point:)
     
  6. jantjeuh

    jantjeuh IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    So I guess you hate all those sorceresses in Diablo 2 that run around with spirit crystal swords as well?
     
  7. yovargas

    yovargas IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    This is possibly my least favorite design decision in the whole game, primarily because of how bizarrely unintuitive it ends up being. When even the hardcore fans can't quite tell how much the dmg for skills like Firebats or Explosive Blast works ("wait, so do I cast less bats if I have a slower weapon??"), it's clear to me something is wrong. Cast speed and weapon speed should never have been tied.
     
  8. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    This has nothing to do with tying APS and weapon damage to skills. The reason most fans have questions about this system is that they didn't play the game yet and the tutorial and tooltips don't explain this at all. However, when people will look at their casting speed with different weapons it will become apparent to them very quickly, that weapon APS and damage affects every skill.

    Listing the exact formulas for skill damage and APS isn't really needed for the majority of players. That said, I would welcome an expert tooltip option beside the current advanced one. Now that I understand how things work even with channeled skills I have to say though, that this new system makes sense and it affects different type of skills consistently.


     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  9. Wildmoon

    Wildmoon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    I somehow find this a really good thing. Not only it feels more realistic that you can use any weapon but It opens for more possibility for wizard to use other items other than wand or staff.
     
  10. MathewPoland

    MathewPoland IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    @Jantejeuh - no, I don't. I don't really hate anyone or anything. I think you've misunderstood me.

    I find having a magic-based class using a melee weapon weird. It just doesn't suit the theme of the class. Come on - wizards and sorcerers use wands, staves, orbes, etc. That's their thing.

    Imagine a Barbarian using a wand... Wouldn't it look weird?

    @Wildmoon - I don't see how it makes the game more realistic. How does holding an axe in your hand improve your spell damage? I can imagine wands or staves doing so, because they could be somehow used to channel your energy, but swordes and axes? For me they're made to hit the enemy, not make your spells stronger:)

    Guys, I'm not trying to QQ, because in all honesty it's a minor thing. It won't make the game less fun or broken. It's all about the visuals:) The whole point of this topic is to see what other people think about it, not start another war in diablo community:)
     
  11. skysbob

    skysbob IncGamers Member

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    I think you are assuming that only two-handers or axes will provide the highest DPS. I do not think that this will be the case. Other weapon types, I hope, will be similarly potent.
     
  12. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    It doesn't. However, why should a fantasy game be realistic in this sense, whatever realistic means for this genre? Why shouldn't a sword glowing with arcane power be used to cast stronger spells?

    There are many games and other sources of fiction out there, where mages used magical swords as their weapons of choice. I could understand the fan complaints about this if this wouldn't be consistent with the previous Diablo games, but it is. Even in D1 and D2 you could use magic swords and other melee weapons to make your caster stronger. Not to the extent that you could in D3, but still, this doesn't automatically mean that melee weapons will be the best choice for casters, so I don't see the problem.

    On the other hand, one hugely positive side-effect of this will be that the Wizard and WD will have an easier time of finding viable weapons.


     
  13. Dahmer

    Dahmer IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    MathewPoland, you may not be trying to QQ but it's exactly what you're doing :s

    In D2 a lot of casters used a runeword...in a flail, a flail which is 99% of the time a melee weapon, designed to swing at your enemy and crack their skull yet casters didn't use it like that. It looked a little bit strange but didn't bother me that much.
    On the other hand you also had barbarians using caster weapons and even wands....that to me is the beauty of Diablo, you don't always go for something that looks great because sometimes you have to settle for what works best.

    It might not make sense to you but it makes perfect sense to me, if you're facing something evil you're going to attack with what works best. Look doesn't matter when you're trying to kill something.
     
  14. MathewPoland

    MathewPoland IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    @skysbob - beta so far shows that melee weapons > wands, at least that's how I see it. However, it is possible that it's different in the retail version.

    @HardRock - Diablo can't be realistic because it's diablo... How can a game where you're a lonely hero that slaughters hordes of hell' minions be realistic? I didn't try to say that diablo needs more realism, because it doesn't:) I meant that using all weapons doesn't make it realistic. At least not for me.

    @Dahmer - I'm not QQ-ing. I've looked for an online definition of this term and if I were QQ-ing my posts would be full of frustration, anger and offensive statements towards Blizzard and all who disagree with me. Moreover, I would be saying something like: "OMG, this game is horrible because Wizards are using axes! OMG, OMG, what a fail! OMG, the game sucks, I'm not buying it!"

    Meanwhile I'm just expressing my opinion and discussing with other people. I think there's a big difference between that and QQ-ing:)

    You admit that a caster using a flail looked a bit weird, so... you, at least partially, agree with me, because that's all I've been trying to say:)

    Also, you made quite a compelling argument, sir:) Yes, it is quite logical to hit hellspawn with whatever works best in confrontation instead sticking to weapons made for your profession:)
     
  15. Sentarius

    Sentarius IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    There's a balance to be struck. There are class specific weapons to encourage you to use them, and there are some weapons each class cannot use. The ones in between are there so that you can customize your character. It would be boring if EVERY Wizard HAD TO use a wand!
     
  16. Wildmoon

    Wildmoon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    Wouldn't it look really cool if there's Wizard with spectral blade build( melee wizard or whatever) use 2h sword. I think it's cool.:D
     
  17. dragon457

    dragon457 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    I think, in the end, this might all be a moot point. While I'm sure there will be a few off-class weapons that are good for certain builds/situations, I'd be willing to bet that due to the caster specific mods you'd usually find on staves and wands, they'll end up being the predominant weapon choices for mages...er, I mean sorcerers. Wait, no, wizard.

    Build diversity was one of the major things players have been bemoaning since all the major changes to the skill system. Blizz locked in the current system and certainly isn't going to change it any time soon. Their decision to tie weapon damage/speed to skill damage/speed was their way of bringing back at least some of the infinite build customization they boasted so long ago. I don't have a problem with the way skills work as of now (I'm one of the the weird ones who didn't really like skill ranks or abilities tied to a random drop system) and I think that letting me decide on things like the damage vs. speed of my skills by choosing different weapons is a fantastic design decision.

    Validating your point, yes, in the strictest sense of fantasy settings, seeing a sorcerer walk around with an ax or warhammer is a little strange looking. But in the context of "this is Diablo" and being able to customize our toons to our liking, I'm all for the way it works.
     
  18. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    i always have and always will play games based on how i feel, not whats the best. for example i will use a bow always with my dh cause i hate crossbows. never used a gun in wow cause screw guns and my d2 sorc never carried a sword. so in d3 you will not see my wiz with a giant 2 handed axe even if its a major upgrade. it can be upsetting sometimes when my weapon choice is not the best one for the class. again using dh as an example i think dual xbows will beat out a bow pretty much always. i guess the biggest concern would be with inferno, if it is really as hard as they claim will we be forced to maximize out char even if we hate the choice of gear?
     
  19. Brak

    Brak IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    Melee weapon spell casters harken all the way back to Diablo and the days of Dreamflange (which I hope is coming back)

    Personally think it is great because while wand+orb will be most common combo, I'll be very happy if I occasionally see a Wiz sporting a Giant Axe of some sort
     
  20. nailertn

    nailertn IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wizard with Axes? What the...

    Have thought about the same thing before and while I don't like the sight of wizards running around with axes I value freedom of choice more.
     

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