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Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP? ifra

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 Community Forum' started by machinus, May 4, 2012. | Replies: 17 | Views: 4053

  1. machinus

    machinus IncGamers Member

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    Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Does this game have a hidden AR? Even with a dodge cap and PvP reduction, this means that dodge and block abilities do not have any interaction with offensive attributes - they are just like PDR. This doesn't seem balanced. Therefore, there should be some mlvl or olvl dependence of dodge and blocking percentages, right?
  2. Mag

    Mag IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    A similar situation was in D2, and dodge / block did not seem to me to be imbalanced.
    A high percentage of dodging will mean that your character will cause less damage, or will have had other deficiencies in the statistics / skills.
  3. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    There is no miss and thus no chance to hit stat. Every damage reduction you obtain reduces damage period. It sort of makes sense that way, doesn't it? :)

    Block % doesn't change with level, but higher level shields block more actual damage, making low-level shields useless at high levels regardless of their blocking chance.

    Dodge % from dex is fixed for all levels, but I doubt it'll stay like that, as it makes dodge pretty useless at low levels and only sort of balanced (with a bit of an advantage for dex over other stats so a bit more defense for DHs/Monks who will have lots of it) at level 60. Dodge from dex is probably the only thing that needs to be level-dependent but instead uses a pretty stupid formula.

    Stuff like armor and resistance definitely need to depend on opponent's level, because you get more and more as you level, and if they didn't scale the damage reduction would have either sucked at low levels or would reach silly numbers at high levels.
  4. machinus

    machinus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Blocking and dodge both had DR dependence.


  5. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Maybe there are workarounds. For example i think frost nova could be one. Set up a burst and do your thing.
  6. jokewood

    jokewood IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like d2's blocking was much more powerful than d3's will be. It had both a higher chance and completely negated damage instead of just reducing it (making it really more like dodge in d3 than blocking in d3). Also, as far as I'm aware, there was no stat for getting past one's opponent's blocks; AR only increased one's hit chance with respect to their opponent's armor rating.

    So, what makes d3's block problematic for pvp if d2's wasn't?
  7. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Could you explain what you mean a bit better?


  8. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Sorceress with 75% block vs. Paladin with 75% block and holy shield

    Defense/AR, block, and dodge were hurdles in D2. In D3, shields can only block x amount of damage, so no longer does blocking a melee attack mean 0 damage.

    Dodge still means 0 damage when you dodge something, but unlike D2 all classes have access to dodge, so even though hitting a Monk may be hard, you'll dodge a little too. And the upper dodge ranges, even for a Monk, seems to not be too bad. Nothing over 60% for the most part.


  9. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    But neither of them were DR dependent in D2? The statement still doesn't make any sense to me.
  10. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Most of this discussion indeed makes little sense. There will be damage reduction that you can't circumvent except by attacking more and/or for more damage. Hopefully it will be balanced and reasonable, or else PvP will be broken. End of story?
  11. zakaluka

    zakaluka IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP? <iframe src=http://forums.

    To clarify for people that aren't following,
    DR in context of d2 = "defense rating". All it did was compute against your opponent's attack rating (AR) to see if they score a hit or a miss.
    DR in context of d3 gives us damage reduction. Completely different concept.

    if you had 75% block and enough defense to only be hit 37% of the time,
    37% of all swings score a "hit" (63% of combat table is "miss")
    Which may then be dodged based on your skills, (sorc has 0 dodge if i keep to same example as above)
    now 75% block applies: 0.75*0.37 = 28% of the combat table is "blocked"
    hits are now: 100 - 63 - 28 = only 9% of all attacks hit.

    In D3, "defense" provides a percentage-based mitigation, and block provides a flat damage reduction.
    You can't even compare them.

    In d2 you could stack avoidance stats really high and never get hit. In d3 you can stack mitigation stats really high and take less damage. Problem? Everyone will just stack tons of mitigation for PvP and build around really bursty single-target DPS, defense, and CC abilities. Can't really call it "imba". Maybe just annoying.
  12. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    In all my days of D2 pvp, DR meant "Damage Reduction." Defense was just defense.

    Nonetheless, block and dodge weren't what I would call dependent on defense. They worked together, sure, but more defense didn't make your blocking/dodging better, and less didn't make it possible for enemies to get past your blocking/dodging more easily.

    I don't see D3 defensive stats as being all that different. You have more steps in damage reduction and more ways to increase it, and blocking is different (but not necessarily that much worse; it depends on where in the damage mitigation stack it occurs), but now dodge is extended to everybody and there's no more defense/ar to worry about.

    The most important differences in the structure of pvp I see are that "potting" (health globes) will occur in good mannered dueling, there isn't a direct analogy to hit recovery animation, and that dodging and blocking are no longer activities that take up time and can interrupt what you were doing. Stun, fhr, dodge/block locking; these were all hugely important mechanics in D2.
  13. OneStepExit

    OneStepExit IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Maybe This is what blizzard had foreseen... hence thats why PVP has no ladder and they would not need to patch here and there...
  14. JomDarbert

    JomDarbert IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Not only is there no ladder for PvP, they have explicitly stated that they have no plans to balance around PvP. In Blizzard's eyes, Diablo 3 is a PvE game - the PvP component is just there "for fun".


  15. Nagafen

    Nagafen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    AR only checked against defense. It was your chance to miss due to your target having really high armor. Dodge and block never factored into this, it was just a flat percentage. People are seeing ghosts just because there's no AR stat. Since there won't be the ridiculous 75% avoidance of block that we had in D2, you can't quadruple your effective health just by choosing to build for max block. A lessened emphasis on misses will also diminish the RNG element, making combat less random and luck-based. That'll be especially beneficial to PvP.
  16. Gekonek

    Gekonek IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Remember that in D2 You could block only melee attacks (except assa claw block). And in D3 You can block all attacks. Also defence and ar matters only for melee skills. Resists were use for spells damage mitigation. And You can have 90% resists for spells (10x more effective health against spells).
    Completely different than in D3 where it doesn't matter armor or resists, they work in same manner. D2 and D3 are not comparable, completely different mechanics.
  17. Peachys

    Peachys IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Asking for clarification, spells can be "dodged" in d3 right?

    So say a giant meteor can not only be avoided by sidestepping, but also by character dodge-stat calculation?
  18. Alutemu

    Alutemu IncGamers Member

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    Re: Without AR, how do we overcome dodge and block in PvP?

    Not only can you dodge the damage from the initial meteor, but you can also "dodge" the damage-over-time ticks from the residual flames.

    Edit: There was a video about it, I'll see if I can find it.
    Edit2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug454JiZYFQ


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