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Why would anyone use frenzy over whirlwind?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by bobbarb, Jun 14, 2013. | Replies: 12 | Views: 3505

  1. bobbarb

    bobbarb IncGamers Member

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    At least for anything other than a single target.

    When I do the math on the damage for pvm, whirlwind seems to do way more dps than frenzy, with dual wielding whirlwind getting 12.5 hits a second where the most frenzy can manage is 5 and that's after the time it needs to charge up, which is the main reason it seems to outclass frenzy so much, especially with charms.

    Am I missing something? Maybe you can very rarely get 12.5 hits a second or something else I am missing? Yet frenzy seems to be the more popular option which I don't understand
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2013
  2. Hew

    Hew IncGamers Member

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    Well i played frenzy for like 5 years before i ever made a ww'er. it was play style for me. i was drawn to the fun and crazy pace of a frenzy barb. hell it was so fast that sometimes you run around monsters when youre trying to kill lol. and before i ever had my first enigma, my frenzy barb helped me get around pretty quick :)
    as far as ubers, frenzy was easssssy to uber with also. not as fast as a smitr of course. but doable and fun.
    one of the cool thing about frenzy is the chance to cast procs in the game on weapons. you dont get these on ww. but ive made frenzy barbs that are like watching a light show :) stuff going off every other second. fun stuff.
  3. royalairfarce

    royalairfarce IncGamers Member

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    I like Frenzy more then WW.
    WW mana cost is pretty high (undead non leechable), harder to aim, lower damage (per hit: WW28 is 166%, Freny 28 +20 Double swing nets 393%), so u can synergise Frenzy better, higher AR. Take into account that u have to land all those extra hits/sec u produce.

    Frenzy is just more laid back: put it on right click, right-click the ground and let your toon Chase your cursor @ high speed. Any Mob u encounter melts away.

    Try em both I'll say and see what u like best

    (Only played IK WW barb and Grief/Death Fenzy so had not much of a damage comparisson)
  4. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    Try actually playing them instead of doing the math. I've played both and Frenzy is definitely the easier PvM skill. When I use Whirlwind, a lot of the time I'm spinning around, back and forth, over a mob, and only damaging some of them. Often, Whirlwind goes right through a monster without doing any damage, even when the LCS says I have a 95% chance to hit it. It's a powerful skill, but it's also kind of unreliable, mana-intensive, and not nearly as good against bosses. Also, the Frenzy charges tend to last a long time, because I run so fast that I can clear entire areas, running from kill to kill, without my charges expiring.
  5. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

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    WW has less built in ED and AR than frenzy so it improves more than frenzy does from getting better gear.

    Also, when you see a WW baba with a massive poleaxe spin past you while your frenzy guy is running around with his "toy" axes you will learn something :p
  6. Clervis

    Clervis IncGamers Member

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    Because it's awesome.
  7. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    By that logic, the basic attack, which has even less bonus ED and AR (because it has none), must be even better.
  8. langevi

    langevi IncGamers Member

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    see a WW spinning past you doing 0 damage. Why use toyaxes? There is many big swords and good maces that is 1-handed.
  9. Archone

    Archone IncGamers Member

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    Exactly! :D
    I loled hard when I read that!

    Im a fan of WW. But Im not ignorant of that frenzy is an awesome skill.
    You can use a frenzy barb for Ubers for example. WW sucks vs Ubers.

    -A well built frenzy barb can do alot more dmg, and hits alot more with higher AR. Half the hits is made up for more than twice the damage.
    -Benefits from ctc items, like atmas,draculs or last wish.
    -Runs larger areas faster, killspeed isnt really affected.
    -And does better singletarget dmg.


    WW is a safer skill. Due to lots of extra points you can put in survival skills.
    Thats why I love ww, and because its alot cooler ofc! ;)



    Peace and love
  10. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    That appearances can be deceiving?

    The standard Berserker Axes may look dinky but they still have rangeadder 2, the maximum for any one-handed weapon: this gives them range 3-5 versus size 1-3 targets. Whirlwind only searches for targets in a 5 sub-tile or 3 1/3 yard radius, so although with any other attack a rangeadder 4 polearm has range 5-7, with Whirlwind it's restricted to a little less than range 5:

    [​IMG]

    The vast majority of monsters are size 2-3, so there is no range advantage to equipping the polearm over the axe when attacking size 3 targets, while the axe still covers ~85% of the range of the polearm against size 2 targets.

    Having posted that, with Whirlwind you can potentially attack every 4 frames with one two-handed weapon (6.25 attacks per second) or two one-handed weapons (12.5/s), whereas Frenzy can only attack every 10 frames with two one-handed weapons (5/s).

    I think he meant the difference between +% Damage and Attack Rating of the two skills becomes less significant as other sources are added. Level 20 Whirlwind may only apply +102% Damage (* 2.02) to level 20 Frenzy's +345% (* 4.45) with level 20 Double Swing's synergy bonus, but once you add a level 20 weapon Mastery (+123%), mercenary supplying level 17 Might (+200%), 200 Strength (+200%) and Fortitude body armor (+300%) the difference is between +946% (* 10.46) and +1,168% (* 12.68), or +1,328% (* 14.28) with level 20 Taunt's synergy bonus: Frenzy only does ~21%, or ~36.5%, more damage per hit at this stage.

    Level 20 Whirlwind may only apply +95% AR (* 1.95) to level 20 Frenzy's +233% (* 3.33), but adding a level 20 weapon mastery (+180%) results in the difference being between +275% (* 3.75) and +413% (* 5.13); +218% from a Demonlimb Unique Tyrant Club's level 23 Enchant charges results in the difference being between +493% (* 5.93%) and +631% (* 7.31)... and ~37% or ~23% more AR doesn't normally translate into an equivalent percentage increase in chance to hit (particularly when chance to hit is already high).

    In that sense, Whirlwind may become better if the difference in damage per hit and chance to hit is reduced to the point where its superior attack rate still allows it to apply more DPS... although this assumes that a target is always within range, and doesn't take into account the time taken travelling between targets.
  11. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    I think so too, but those aren't points in favor of WW, merely mitigating factors that make two advantages of Frenzy less pronounced. The attack rate, which the post I was quoting didn't mention, but which you did mention, is an advantage of Whirlwind.
  12. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

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    Guys, my point was that with a decked titan build a ww barb would have around 2000 ED. While Frenzy around 2500. Meanwhile frenzy would hit enemies at 5 FPA while a dual wielding WW would hit effectively at 2-3 fpa depending on whirl length. so at the high end of gear spectrum the ww outperforms frenzy.
  13. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    I'm repeating myself, but WW has reliability issues. If I thought it actually outperformed Frenzy in all areas of the game, I'd use it over Frenzy all the time. Sometimes monsters pass right through WW unscathed, even when I have a 95% chance to hit them. Some of those potential strikes at 2 or 3 FPA are wasted on thin air as WW passes by monsters. Frenzy has reliable single-target damage.

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