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What would you have done as an endgame?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by rockoffire, Jul 2, 2012. | Replies: 68 | Views: 4133

  1. rockoffire

    rockoffire IncGamers Member

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    I would have liked Inferno to be a whole new act similar to the concept of D2's ubers. It would have been set in Hell (not the difficulty the place) and would have been a furious escalation of battling all major bosses in a condensed world, culminating in 'final form' Diablo.

    It would include:

    0 Cut Scenes
    0 Events (all bosses/monsters would be part of the world not isolated in chambers)

    Ultimate award would have been some kind of cool Bind on Equip item + a charm of some sort similar to Anni or Torch's with enormously varied stats.

    Your Ideas?
  2. Ivan E

    Ivan E IncGamers Member

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    Endless dungeon with a common twist:

    In SC, you get a limit of deaths. After say, 3 deaths, you get booted out and lose everything you grabbed from the endless dungeon. So there's a constant tension - do you keep going, or take your hard-earned goods and bail. The difficulty and item level would need to scale up a bit so that bailing and restarting would not be worthwhile, provided you could do later floors. I'd also add in additional randomization: first the dungeon could resemble areas already in the game, in regard to layout/monster population. However, as you get deeper, not only does the difficulty increase, but you start mixing tilesets/layout with enemies that don't belong there, and then towards the end, mix up everything so that you can have cultists and corrupted angels within the same dungeon level.

    Throw in resplendent chests, a few out of context events, and a randomly selected, somewhat (or fully-scripted) random boss battle every few levels (added risk-reward because you don't know when moving on to the next level might put you up against a guy whose patterns you have to learn and might kill you 3 times), and there you go.

    Then the mode could be expanded via in-game challenges yielding additional rewards, such that an NPC challenges you to enter into the dungeon using two specific skills/runes/passives, and you get an additional reward (another rare per pack/more MF/something) for doing so.

    Pretty much infinite replay value for me right there.
  3. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse IncGamers Member

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    i would have done anything other than the boring as hell D2 so called end game. what D3 offers is far from perfect but its way better than what d2 had. not sure what a "good" end game would be in a ARPG like this. what have other games done? i have a feeling that no matter what was offered it would have been bashed by a majority anyway
  4. Snakefinger

    Snakefinger IncGamers Member

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    - Some sort of endless dungeon
    - Unique quests and events that only spawn in inferno
    - Some New monster abilities, affixes, skins, animations & sounds
    - Items that only drop in Inferno -- be it charms, new gems or relics to socket in items, rejuvenation potions
    - Different shrines that only spawn in inferno
    - Quests that give more than +Exp&Gold since at level 60 those rewards are worthless

    Just a few off the top of my head. With Inferno right now, it makes me long for just Normal -> Hell difficulty
  5. MagisterMan

    MagisterMan IncGamers Member

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    At least D2 has an end game. D3 does not have one until pvp patch has come.


  6. marshmallow

    marshmallow IncGamers Member

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    For PvM, I'd put in at least 30+ gimmicky uber dungeons a la Median. This gives players objectives to gear for while not feeling like they can't even beat the game itself since they're on the side. An endless dungeon is OK too (or maybe 100 floors, with random act bosses included, the last floor can have every act boss in the same room). Survival arenas, or maybe more survival events in the actual game world that last longer than 20 seconds with an actual loot explosion at the end.

    The events in the game are pretty lame, really. If they were actually worth hunting down, and if they were more epic, it'd make the game more interesting than just only hunting elites.

    For inferno, I'd consider just making every act filled with random monsters a la A5 guest monsters in D2 and flattening the difficulty as originally envisioned. You can get some interesting combos that way plus it keeps you on your toes.
  7. Accaris

    Accaris IncGamers Member

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    No gimmicky uber dungeons. Champion/"epic" levels to 100 with perks, ala Kripp Tips. Add those same champion levels to the blacksmith and jewelcrafter too, requiring a huge amount of time spent for ridiculous rewards.
  8. sicilian

    sicilian IncGamers Member

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    Honestly, I think the idea of Inferno as the end game challenge is a good one. What they needed to do though was balance the interesting loot around the end of HELL too. Blacksmith plans, Jeweler designs, the cooler legendaries, etc etc, are all basically Inferno only (or Inferno only for practicality's sake).

    Mentally, I consider beating Hell to be "beating" the game, with Inferno as a bonus difficulty to strive for over time. But with the loot variety making such a big jump in Inferno, it feels like I'm being robbed of MY endgame.
  9. Chaosmage

    Chaosmage IncGamers Member

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    - Make the monster AI better in all difficulties
    - For inferno scale it up, mobs don't charge randomly at you they stay in formations and have superior situational awareness.
    - Every item in the game can be found in act4 hell mode
    - minimal damage and HP scaling in inferno
    - re-introduce caps on the following boni: resists, evade, attack speed
    - re-introduce faster hit recovery
    - caster weapon damage is different than physical weapon damage.
    - re-introduce armor weight
    - re-introduce stamina and make it be consumed by certain skills
    - max level 100 which is impossible to reach amount of time
    - remove durability on jewelery
    - remove durability loss death penalty reintroduce exp penalty
    - remove +stat on items and reintroduce stat point on the character
    - every class has a extra resource which grows in magnitude over 99-100
    - that resource may be used to fuel synergies which apply between skills, it is consumed when a skill using a synergy is used and regenerated when you deal damage
    - if you already own an item the next one you find will have one point better stats. (like in D2 with a commonly unknown glitch)
    - remove random affixes from legendaries
    - all legendaries have some incredibly powerful stat for the slot along with some negative one.
    - all normal items are eternal thus useful
    - remove the gold find affix
    - traveling merchants have to ability to identify one item again if found, with the possibility of discovering additional/better stats or affixes
    and finally:
    - introduce "true" unique items which can only be found one time on the realm. Finding one of those entitles the player to create another one for someone else. Higher negative stats enable higher positive stats.

    I think we should design our own (diablo) game anybody feeling up to it? Should be a prequel and FOSS.
  10. buddah

    buddah IncGamers Member

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    I would have had lots of interesting items to hunt for starters. And some place to hunt them that includes lots of randomness(in maps, monsters). Just a real change from the previous difficulties, but not by creating totally new content(too much to ask I suppose) but by changing around previously created content. Any specifics I would leave to others, key word is randomness
  11. Yersinia Pestis

    Yersinia Pestis IncGamers Member

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    I would have put more focus on the random events.

    I think it would be pretty cool if events in inferno where more common and a bit harder than the rest of the act.
    They should feature unique mechanics (like the timed dungeon) which require you to rethink your strategy and spice the game up a bit.
    In order to make them worth something, you should gain +1 NV after finishing an event and finishing one with NV 5 should give you 2 garantied rares.

    I would also put a specific boss in every (random apearing) side area in inferno which is harder than normal boss packs but also garanties 2 rares (NV 5).
    Theses bosses can also side area specific items.
    This would be 1 BS plan and 1/2/3 items you need (in order with lots of gold and crafting materials) to craft that item. That item has can be used once inside that area to summon some really ahrd boss which would drop really good.
  12. zacheroog

    zacheroog IncGamers Member

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    Pretty much this. Leave Inferno alone, and just add some content that's more balanced for post-hell adventuring. Not only for balance, but to get us away from having to repeat the same story all over again. Endless dungeons and wave dungeons. Fast paced levels with timed objectives. Basically something fun that's not doing the game all over again on a higher difficulty difficulty.
  13. rockoffire

    rockoffire IncGamers Member

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    Endless dungeon sounds kinda boring to me...A3 felt like an endless staircase and i hated it.

    I think that replaying the game for a fourth time is pretty lame, they should have just ramped the difficulty through norm,nm, and hell better.

    Would have like Hell to still be the grind and Inferno to be completely something else purely for the pursuit of difficulty or holy grail type items
  14. Karamo

    Karamo IncGamers Member

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    Being able to level up. To get exp.

    That's all.
  15. Barry White

    Barry White IncGamers Member

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    Im not a fan of the endless dungeon idea. I can see why people would love it, seeing how many levels they could get through but its just not for me. There would be a lot of "skip every monster unless its required to open up the next dungeon" play going on, especially in MP. And i just think after a few levels of it i would get bored or want to do a different area.

    Personally i would get most enjoyment out of a D2 style "damn near impossible to reach level cap". I did A LOT of Mf runs in D2 on Baal because not only did he drop good stuff, but it was also great for leveling past 85. I had 2 great reasons to kill him and his minions all day. Take out all the story fluff in inferno, because going through the same story for a 4th time is pointless, nobody playing at that point wants to see cutscenes or stupid dialogue every 2 minutes again. How hard is it to only have them on normal, or at the start of every act past normal a little popup comes up and says "would you like to skip all cutscenes/story dialogue for this Act?".

    And honestly, i get bored, particularly at the start of a new Act (except Act 3, that kicks ***) because i know im going to have to kill 100 packs of identical normal monsters. Mix things up. Throw the story/structure out the window and just say "ok, so this dungeon any normal monster in the game can spawn" or "one area you will be fighting standard Act 1 skeletons and goatmen, but the next area we are throwing oppressors and flying bees at you".

    As for character development, there is no attachment to them. You can turn your barb into any other barb in 1 minute, stat points are assigned automatically etc etc. If you have a friend the same class as you at level 60 you can basically clone them by just putting on their items. In D2 i had all sorts of odd builds and the only way to get another like it was to start from level 1 and play through the game. I grew to really love my characters and they felt individual, even the cookie cutter builds.

    So have an option in D3 once you hit the max level or finish inferno etc to customise your character. Mess around with the stat points, maybe even be able to modify your skills (say a slider to increase damage at the cost of increased cooldown/more mana cost/reduced radius on a per skill basis). This wouldnt be easy to do for all skills evenly but it would be great to experiment. Let me see what a Wiz can do with an arcane orb that does twice as much damage but costs nearly all of my AP to cast, or one that i can spam nearly non stop that only does 50% damage. Let me see if i can survive with every single stat point in my main stat and none in vit for uber glass cannon. Maybe have it so you can only change 2 skills every 48 hours or something to stop being going nuts. Maybe completing events and quests in Inferno could unlock more customization options.
  16. sifuedition

    sifuedition IncGamers Member

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    TL;DR
    I can live with the game as it is, if the items were done differently. I think playing the game "as designed" would be fine if you make it rewarding. Otherwise, you have to change the entire design so that player goals are different.

    I would say that about every 6-12 hours I should find something better for me. Not a lot better, just better. Screw the AH. Screw the "economy". Give me a game that feels rewarding with the appropriate time invested. I played with an open mind to begin with. My wizard hit 60 with maybe 60 hours played. About the time I hit 100 hours played, I started to wonder why I felt like I was "making" myself play. Then it suddenly hit me, "I'm not wearing anything I've found". Another 80 or so hours and still not wearing anything I've found and no items worthy of the AH to speak of.

    Decided I didn't care for drop hydra and run like a wussy, so starting working on my barb. Hit 60 with about 50 hours played. Up to 90 hours played on him now and still not wearing anything I've found.

    I've actually tried to not use the AH on my barb. Bought upgrades that felt necessary to progress in hell because they were cheap and all slots were > 10 levels behind (actually did this on my wiz too but that was less focused intent and more lack of gold as I was working on vendors). Hit 60 and grinding without the AH. Eventually, this weekend, saw I was sitting at 1 million gold with no AH sales to boost that and finally gave in to buy two upgrades. Cost almost all of that million to upgrade 2 pieces of that iLvl 52/55 stuff.

    So, basically, I never get to have any small wins to keep me trying for those uber pieces. I wouldn't mind spending tons of hours trying for a Stormshield if I could actually ID some lesser usable shields in the meantime. This game is not designed that way and I think that's why the endgame is not working as designed. If it did work that way, 7 million players x % of poop-sockers = flooded AH/RMAH. I don't see that as a bad thing if the play is rewarding to the playerbase. Blizz obviously does see that as a problem. So AH wins, players lose.

    Alternatively, you can change the paradigm so that the goal is not unlocking "hard" content (read gear-blocked). If you change that paradigm, there are tons of ways to make the endgame work.
  17. Ace_wanderer

    Ace_wanderer IncGamers Member

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    That's why D2 has lasted 12 years, genius observation, truly brilliant except you happened to ignore the facts.

    I would have eliminated Inferno, 3 difficulties is the right number. I would have added more events similar to the pandemonium event, this is on top of a proper build/item system.



  18. Inntinn

    Inntinn IncGamers Member

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    What OP says sounds exactly like I would want it and would have expected it.
    I am not sure why they did not implement it like this seeing as D2 had it close to right afaik.
    Maybe they will with the next of second expansion but that will take a year minimum I'm afraid.

    Still, what OP says and in addition:

    - Lose NV stack on death
    - NO drops on a specific rare or pack when you die once
    - Every rare or pack killed without dying (in a group without anyone dying) will have you gain NV again (still capped at 5) AND some EXPERIENCE with a levelcap of 5 so you are rewarded with only ilvl63 items (just blues and yellows) and gain a little advantage over others before the expansion comes out. The expansion should start with an only little bit easier version of the described endgame with like now Inferno Act1 a reasonable chance on dropping ilvl61-63 items but the entire map (start) can be skipped by the heroes that are already at clvl65 to progress to the new, one extra act. Expansion can take a charcter from 60(65) to 75 in 3 difficulties with an additional endgame like the one described before that can optionally take you to 80 before yet the next expansion.
  19. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse IncGamers Member

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    d2 had the same end game that d3 has, kill monsters for loot. only 2 things are different now,

    in d2 people could endlessly kill the same stupid boss forever trying to gain a few pointless levels
    in d3 you have more area to "hunt" in and find items

    d2 lasted 12 years cause there was nothing else out there. titan quest? please. if they released d3 6 years ago d2 would not have gone 12 years. if you think d2 lasted 12 years simply cause you could do the same exact small piece of content over and over again you are crazy

    also, and this is a big one that i know many wont agree with but, d2 was more popular cause it was far easier. people want to just destroy everything in front of them without ever dying. now that people have been getting killed, and alot, people hit the forums to cry about d3


  20. KimiFerrari

    KimiFerrari IncGamers Member

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    Levels.

    They are a steady bar of progression that you could easily track and feel a sense of accomplishment even if you didn't finish the level. It is also independent of RNG effects; unlike the item grind. You may do 20 runs and feel no progression because you got crappy drops, and you have no idea where the light at the end of the tunnel is, but with a slow and gradual progression you always feel like your heading in the right direction, no matter how long it takes.

    I understand why they wanted lvl 60 and easy to reach caps (PVP and expansions), but there should have been some extra leveling feature implemented.

    I do like some of Kripp's "champion level" ideas . Maybe adding reduce identifying time to that list he suggested, open up extra acts or bosses in one game, so on....

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