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What polearm for pride IG?

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Impactor, Sep 25, 2013. | Replies: 8 | Views: 4387

  1. Impactor

    Impactor IncGamers Member

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    What polearm would be best for an Iron Golem made out of Pride?

    Is there any disadvantage of making him out of a Normal or Exceptional one?
  2. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    A golem made from an elite polearm will do more damage than one made from a normal one. Of course, you're probably interested in Pride for the Concentration aura's effect on your party, and not for the golem's own damage. However, since Pride requires Lo, Sur, and Cham, you'll have found quite a few elite polearms (I'd go a step further and say you'd find ethereal, elite, 4-socketed polearms) long before you have the recipe anyway, so might as well use the best option. While ethereal elite socketed polearms don't exactly rain down from the sky, I've found several. I've never even found a single Cham rune, ever. I've had to cube them from lower runes and that takes a long time.
  3. Impactor

    Impactor IncGamers Member

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    Actually, I already have the runes. Mostly from trade. On the other hand, I do have somewhat a hard time finding a 4os elite polearm, so that's why I am asking.

    What is the IG damage difference when made of normal vs elite polearm, and is this the only difference?
  4. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    Well, I guess if that works for you it works for you. Trading is weird, apparently. 4-socketed elite polearms are way easier to find than Cham runes.

    Anyway, pretty sure the damage from the Iron Golem's attacks would be the only difference. And an Iron Golem made from Pride doesn't hit nearly as hard as one made from Obedience (I have tested this), which is a much, much cheaper recipe. If you're planning to put Pride in a golem at all, it's for the aura, so weapon choice really isn't a big factor. It just seems weird because a Pride IG is a pretty extravagant thing to do, and so going the tiny step further and actually putting it into a good base seems like the natural thing to do. For practical purposes, I'd think the difference would be negligible. If the golem gets swarmed and you don't save it with Teleport or something, the difference in its damage output wouldn't save it anyway.
  5. Psychonautical

    Psychonautical IncGamers Member

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    Honestly, it wouldn't matter for several reasons:

    (EDIT: To clarify, this is all assuming a 1-point investment in Iron Golem, Clay Golem, and Blood Golem, and does not reflect added Attack Rating or Damage based on maxing out synergies.)

    1. Iron Golems deal out pitiful damage. Even a fully-synergized IG with max Fire Golem will have really low figures.
    2. Iron Golems do damage based on the damage of the weapon (if a weapon is used, they do their own based damage with an armor.) Since Pride has no enhanced damage, all you will end up with is the tiny damage IG's do, plus the base weapon damage, then slightly enhanced by Concentration. (This is not an exact representation of the damage formula, but a generalization.) Even if you are going for a might mercenary and using a Beast or Faith yourself to get all three offensive auras, I'd be shocked if you got your IG to 1,000 damage.
    3. Lastly, even if there was a way to get more-than-laughable damage out of ol' Rusty, his attack rating is crap. You'd have to use Fanaticism + Blessed Aim to even begin to start seeing him land hits in Hell.

    At the end of the day, he is mainly for the aura, so if you are really set on him being made out of Pride, which one you use wouldn't really matter. In fact, it could be argued that a normal Pride is BETTER because it will make him WEAKER, and thus less likely to die off should he actually get a few hits in while cursed with Iron Maiden. It'd be an awful shame to spend so much effort into making him as badass as possible only to see him kill himself by messing with the wrong Oblivion Knight.

    I assume your reason for wanting Rusty to be the source of Concentration instead of Hazeed or Waheed is so that you can use a stronger stick on him such as Infinity or Obedience.

    However, if you are using Skeletons as well, then this isn't necessary, as a merc using Pride will have no trouble getting the first few bodies in Hell to summon your army. Thus a Might/Pride mercenary is typically the best option for maxing out a Summon Necro's damage.

    If you are set on the novelty of an insanely expensive IG, you could find more use out of a Doom Cryptic Axe, where at least you get the benefit of Holy Freeze without sacrificing Might from your merc, as well as giving him a fast swing and a chance to freeze target.

    Personally, though, I have found that Crescent Moon makes a great cheaper alternative for an IG and actually causes him to do some good. Not that a summoner needs more crowd control, but with the 20% IAS in a phase blade and Ignores Target's Defense, your IG will be dishing out Static Field periodically, effectively delivering Crushing Blow to most of the creatures on screen, which makes for a great strategy.

    Run in, skeletons start their work, Static lowers their life and makes the skeletons' job much easier.

    While I haven't tested it, in theory I would think that Prudence runeword would also make a great choice as your IG will be casting Slow Missiles and occasionally his own Valkyrie. I am not sure if that would actually work, but if it did, slowing missiles makes your life much easier, and the added tank is always welcome to the summoner.
  6. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    I'm not sure where all these rumors started about Iron Golem either doing awe-inspiring damage or pitiful damage, but I recently tested these claims myself, and they're incorrect. An iron golem, if made from the right kind of weapon, hits quite hard. The problem is that it doesn't hit quickly, so a decent merc can outperform a synergized Iron Golem, with the additional benefit of not throwing away an item.

    If one is using Pride in an Iron Golem, it's basically just for the aura. That's fine. I think I've already made my opinion known on this, though. Doing the work of getting a Cham rune and then finally putting the Pride runeword into a crappy polearm is like digging through a haystack, finding the needle, and then, because you need some hay to go along with your needle, grabbing a handful of the crappiest hay in the entire stack. Yes, the difference between a Pride Iron Golem in an elite polearm and one in a normal polearm is negligible. But so is the difference in availability between the two polearms relative to the rune recipe for Pride.

    Nope. I let some of my Iron Golems get surrounded by strong packs and they were still able to kill things in Hell. For Pride it isn't particularly relevant, but you're still making a claim that contradicts the results I saw from actually testing this. Obedience in particular did a plausible job of killing monsters. Not something that would actually make a fully golem-based necromancer into a powerhouse build, but it could definitely beat the game.

    Dueling other necromancers with a Pride Iron Golem is an amusing proposition, but come on, that's getting a little too silly, even by "Let's use our high runes in an Iron Golem" standards.

    You should try Patch 1.13 some time. It has some cool changes.

    It's gimmicky, but yeah, it definitely works.

    Equipping a Might mercenary with Pride is definitely viable on a summoner in Hell. That said, a mercenary with a better weapon can do more damage than an army of skeletons.

    Doom Iron Golem? I'll admit, I haven't tried that one yet. Better than Pride, though? That's a bold claim. I take it you haven't seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kS0H9ZWv4A

    Pride in an Iron Golem may be one of the most obnoxiously extravagant uses of runes in the game, but it definitely works.

    Iron Golem can't be made in a phase blade. Are you talking about having the necromancer wield some phase blade?

    Yeah, if I remember correctly, a Prudence Iron Golem won't ever proc Valkyrie, sadly.
  7. Psychonautical

    Psychonautical IncGamers Member

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    Yeah you are right about the PB, my mistake. I made mine out of either an elegant blade or one of the other thin swords, but mentioned the PB out of what I thought would be better swing speed, forgetting that it wasn't possible.

    I saw your thread about IG's after this one, and I am astounded that he actually killed thing. Then again, your testing was done on player one. I play multiplayer, typically in populated games, so when I consider things like this, I always assume players 8.

    Ha ha, I do indeed play 1.13, and I forgot that one of the changes was with the Iron Maiden problem. Honestly, I wish they had kept it, since physical damaging toons are quite obviously the best option in virtually all cases (even with immunities, there is always Atma's Scarab) and could use a bit more of a challenge. Oh, and when I mentioned the curse, it wasn't suggestion a necromancer dueling another. Just the Knights.

    I am also surprised at his hit ratio seen in that video. I recall trying to use IG's in Hell and he almost never hit. Maybe that was another tweak from an earlier patch? I am pretty sure the last time I really tried out IG was in 1.10.

    It is quite depressing that Golem won't proc a Valkyrie. I wonder if mercs can...

    EDIT: I may be confusing you with another author of the thread about IG's as that video shows players 8. I don't know if you made that video or if you were the one who made the other thread about it killing in hell, so if his kill speed was on players 8, I am all the more surprised.
  8. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    I believe the person here under the handle "zrk" made that video, but I can't remember for sure if that's right...

    The Pride Iron Golem isn't actually what's killing things in the video, though. The killer is the Might merc with an ethereal Breath of the Dying war pike, Guillame's Face, and jeweler's armor socketed with IAS jewels. The golem is made from Pride and the necromancer is wielding a Faith bow and casting Amplify Damage and Corpse Explosion (along with Teleport from Enigma). There's also a thread on these boards somewhere that provides more details, but the main idea is that if a necromancer dedicates resources to supporting a merc, the merc can hit so hard and so fast that he not only outdamages any combination of pets and mercenaries, but some player characters. Anyway, I brought that up for two reasons. Firstly, it shows a technically legitimate use for the extravagant Pride Iron Golem (giving a decked out mercenary an additional aura without sacrificing equipment slots). Secondly, it's the extreme version of what's been demonstrated to a lesser extent elsewhere: a mercenary is a powerful damage source, and a summoner with a mercenary that has weapon just for its aura (like Pride) loses out on damage output to a summoner with a mercenary that actually wields a damaging weapon (like Obedience).

    And yeah, I generally only play on /players8 myself. When I started testing synergized Iron Golem, I wasn't even sure if it would work at all, so I didn't bother increasing the player count. When I have time to do so, I do intend to test some of the same items on higher player counts. Based on what I've already seen though, I'm pretty confident that an Obedience golem, with Teleport, Corpse Explosion, and curses to back it up, should be able to clear any area in Hell on /players8. The problem isn't that the golem couldn't do it, but that to actually use such a necromancer outside testing, I'd be using high end gear and risking losing ethereal elite polearms if the golem died or disappeared, all for a character that could probably be outperformed by an untwinked paladin. I guess if one really wants the gimmick of an Iron Golem killing stuff, then that's good. For the most part, it's just impractical.
  9. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    Iron Golem Attack Rating in Hell = 197 + 25*Golem Mastery.slvl + 20*Clay Golem.blvl + MonLvl + item AR

    Where MonLvl is the value in the TH (H) or L-TH (H) column of MonLvl.txt for the Iron Golem's level (for example, in Hell this is 3,218 at level 80, 3,408 at level 85 and 3,598 at level 90).

    The Peace Rune Word body armour will not cast Valkyrie when equipped by an Iron Golem or mercenary: it used to cause the game to crash whenever it attempted to do so, so it was fixed so that it didn't.

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