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What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by z00t, Apr 2, 2012. | Replies: 16 | Views: 4620

  1. z00t

    z00t IncGamers Member

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    What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    I've read some of the builds here, but would like to hear more peoples' specific thoughts on this matter.

    I love 2-handers, but at the moment, am finding a hard place for them in my Barbarian builds.

    Using 2-handers seems to come with some noticeable weaknesses:

    1) Slower attack speed not good for proccing on-hit effects like the Clobber rune for Bash.
    2) Slower attack speed also doesn't synergise well with Critical Strike chance.
    3) High damage (and slower attack speed again :p) mean that there's a higher chance to 'overkill' on a monster, and you're a bit more sluggish to begin attacking your next target compared to a dual-wielding barb.

    The only advantage I can think of for wielding a two-hander is that you have the chance for a higher-total damage with a particular attack (since 2-handers trade attack speed for higher potential max damage). However, your average damage should still be the same as a dual-wielder, and remember - you're also more likely to waste some of your DPS on 'overkill' :(.

    So yeah - what are your builds which are built SPECIFICALLY around the use of a 2-hander?
  2. Youngtimer

    Youngtimer IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    A good build for 2-hander should include "Rend". The DoT really helps to avoid overkill. Furthermore i think that "Cleave" will be the best choice for your left mouse button.
  3. z00t

    z00t IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    I was thinking Rend, too, but I had Frenzy in mind for my LMB. I was thinking that Frenzy would offset the 2-hander weakness of slow attack speed, and lets me wail on bosses and uniques hard. Rend has really nice synergy with Frenzy because you can just apply Rend and continue hitting people with Frenzy, so you don't lose your stacks.

    Of course, that synergy also exists with dual-wielding as well. Is there actually a reason why Frenzy would be better with a 2-hander than dual-wielding? I mean, more attack speed is more attack speed - even dual-wielders like it.
  4. Lucas S

    Lucas S IncGamers Member

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  5. z00t

    z00t IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    Thanks for that, Lucas - so now I know that Frenzy is more efficient when you're wielding a two-hander than if you're dual-wielding.

    I'm beginning to feel that Frenzy is the way to go with a 2-hander build. The synergy with Rend I mentioned above feels like a very natural fit, and Frenzy with a 2-hander feels so GOOD when you're fighting a boss :p.

    I'm thinking of this as a tentative build:
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WcYXST!cTb!caZYZb

    The key word of this build is: momentum. The Barbarian's playstyle tends naturally towards this (just the way Fury works), but I feel it's even more so with this particular build.

    Frenzy wants to be used often because there's not much point getting to 5 stacks, and then using some Secondary ability for a while and letting your stacks disappear. Instead, the idea is to make Frenzy hurt more and not rely on Fury-spenders. To this end, I take the Maniac rune for Frenzy.

    Rend is my secondary attack of choice since it doesn't require a 'time' commitment - I can simply right-click, and then immediately continue hitting monsters with Frenzy, so I don't lose my stacks. Rend also is my way of dealing with enemy hordes, since Frenzy isn't fantastic at killing swarms of monsters. The rune choices I take for Ground Stomp and Leap were also chosen to make Rend a better AoE skill than something like Hammer of the Ancients.

    Ground Stomp is one of the best ways to make the most out of Frenzy - by making sure that fast enemies can't get away. With the Wrenching Smash rune, this should also synergise well with Rend, setting enemies up for AoE damage at the same time.

    Leap is next on the list because again, mobility when playing a melee class like the Barbarian is key, and this is especially true when the build is so reliant on Frenzy - we need all the gap-closers we can get, and leap is quite a reliable way to get up close to a high-priority target. The Call of Arreat rune is taken because of the synergy it has with Rend. Since Rend is my main source of AoE damage, I believe in having multiple ways to set up a good Rend.

    Furious Charge is taken because Leap alone probably isn't enough to maintain the level of momentum that a build like this wants. Furious Charge gives me that extra boost of mobility for when I need it, and the Merciless Assault rune lets me use it more often.

    I take Earthquake instead of other 'big-effect-long-cooldown' skills because I envision needing to retreat from bosses now and again. In later difficuties, as much as I'd like to, I don't think I can stand in front of a boss and keep hitting it with Frenzy until it dies - there will be times when I'll need to back off to avoid a particular attack. I'd hate for Wrath of the Beserker to be wasted in such a situation, but Earthquake will continue to provide consistent DPS, so for the time being, I feel that it is the better choice, as fun as Wrath of the Berserker would be with this build. Because I don't rely on hatred-spending too much, and want to keep my passive Berserker Rage going, I figure that The Mountain's Call rune is not a bad choice, and the reduced cooldown is nice.


    The key behind a lot of my skill choices is the passive Berserker Rage. Combined with the Maniac rune for Frenzy, and my Frenzy attacks hurt quite a bit more. Rend only costs 20 Fury, so it shouldn't take much to get back up to full again.

    Juggernaut is taken because mobility is a key aspect to this build, and anything that hinders our mobility is going to hurt especially much.

    I take Nerves of Steel because I think that the extra durability will be nice, especially in later difficulties. Im considering other passives such as Unforgiving. Unforgiving would be nice because it would allow me to enter a battle closer to 100% efficiency instead of needing to spend time at the start of a fight building up to max Fury, so that the Berserker Rage passive kicks in. If it takes like 5 seconds to go from 0 to 100 Fury, that's 5 seconds I could have been dealing +25% damage if I had Unforgiving. Still, not too sure. Nerves of Steel does seem pretty nice.
  6. ElementEight

    ElementEight IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    With a 2-hander I'd go for skills that are independent of attack speed. :p
  7. Diab

    Diab IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    Depending on the situation, I would go for the Vanguard rune for Frenzy instead of the Maniac rune. If dealing with normal monsters, gap-closers are especially useful as you said, so I think the speed boost will be more worthy than extra damage in the long run. If you cannot get to the next group of monsters in time, you lose the Frenzy bonus entirely and have to start all over again. There is nothing more frustrating than being a second too late to keep the Frenzy buff.
  8. MustBHacks

    MustBHacks IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?


    #2 isn't a weakness as long as you're doing physical damage.
    Small fast weapons will also generate/burn fury much faster than large, so you can call that a + or - depending on your view.
    Over-all though I feel like 2h items need a buff to even them out.


  9. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    I think 2-handers only go well with the dread bomb weapon throw builds where the goal is to max fury bar and dump it with one move. It would be pretty unreliable build, but if the stars are aligned and you land couple lucky ancient spear criticals you could chain absolutely massive weapon throw dread bombs.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#afdVik!fYW!bcZZYb
  10. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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  11. Superstate

    Superstate IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    Calm down there cowboy, you've missed the bigger picture!

    I'm not sure if you meant my post, or the concept as a whole so I'll answer to both! The post was made only to show that the Frenzy IAS isn't multiplicative as the Weapon IAS is, which many people seem to believe (many users on different forums have been under this assumption in the past from my experience).

    Secondly, there is nothing wrong with the concept, I was making the statement that Frenzy gets worse at later levels of gear due to the DW bonus watering it down. You seem to correlate this statement with my previously showing that Frenzy IAS is additive; they aren't directly related. You are correct that the IAS of Frenzy will always yield 75 additive IAS, which has a linear value, and I might not have been very clear about it in my posts. Because they stack additively, they'll always have a linear return, much like Strength, or Vitality / Armor for effective life.


    However, Frenzy is still watered down by the DW bonus, due to it faster reaching a breakpoint where Bash will deal more damage. This was the basis of my statement. This breakpoint arrives later without the DW bonus (ie 15% later). There is also resource gain differencies to take into account, but then we have to set a value for our fury, how much we need it and so forth, which is all relative to builds.

    The other half of the statement (later gear levels) is simply because I'm assuming we'll be having more than 0 IAS from gear at the later gear levels, so this then becomes relevant to keep in mind.



    I'll be writing a reply to that other post you made, since you've been very quick to hit the post button there as well! I'm all up for discussion and I would be the first in line in order to correct any mistakes I've made, but please don't pass off my posts as false if you can't show proof why. :thumbsup:


    Edit:

    I looked through my post again, and I'm confused by your quote:

    "That concept is wrong. IAS scales linearly."

    The following was literally the second sentence in my post: "I've previously found that all IAS effects stack additively, except those found on the actual weapon."


    You do realize we weren't speaking about the implications of additive (ie linear) IAS there right? It was simply a trial of whether it was multiplicative or not.


    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  12. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    It just seems that people are drawing totally wrong conclusions about that math.
  13. Superstate

    Superstate IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    Yes, it is probable that I've confused a few people when I've thrown around terms here and there.


  14. imthedan

    imthedan IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    After taking information in from different sources, I decided I'd try to change my WW build a little bit. It's actually pretty much the same as every other WW build, but I add different things to help me stay alive. I'm planning on Inferno being much harder than most of the spin to win builds.

    I must say first, that I am not absolutely positive that I will run with a two hander. It'll depend on how WW interacts with it, since we don't really have much information on that. There's also questions about fury generation with my build, so skills may be swapped out to account for that.

    So, I am not going into huge detail. Just general information.

    I will run with the passive that gives +3 fury per hit passive for using Mighty Weapons. Then I will use the rune in WhirlWind that gives +1 fury per hit. Basically, this should allow me to keep WW up as much as possible considering that I'll get +4 fury per hit. Depending on the numbers, we could hit as much as three or four times per second (I guess depending on AS) -- so, I should generate at least 12-16 Fury per second. If it costs 16 fury to run WW, I should be able to keep it up damn near as long as I need.

    I have Cleave in my build as well, but if it turns out that I don't need much fury regen, I'll probably just get rid of that.

    I have Revenge with the fury gen and +10% max life. This will keep my health up, but if it turns out I don't need it as much, then I might switch the rune on it.

    I have two shouts. The one that reduces incoming damage and the one that gives armor to me and my team. I have invigorate which will increase my max health and give me health per second.

    My last skill was between WotB and Earthquake. I want WotB, but it'll depend on how much fury I regen with my build. Currently, I get it from my passive (mighty weapon), ww rune, revenge rune, and cleave if I need it. That should be a tonne of fury regren that could keep the buff up for awhile. If it doesn't work out that way, then I'll probably switch to earthquake and use the rune that cuts the fury cost and lowers the cooldown. then maybe use the passive that lowers the cooldown another 30 seconds. this would allow me to hit earthquake every minute and not cost fury. we unlock earthquake a lot earlier than WotB, so I'll probably see how I like the skill.

    Anyway, that's my basic build at the moment. I wanted a build that allowed me to use WW as much as possible, and I think the fury regren on this is the best that can be asked. I also needed some survivability and I think adding extra damage reduction (on top of the 30% innate reduction barb's already get) plus the extra armor buff will be amazing. Then I also have life leech, and health regren from various areas.

    The one thing I was considering changing was in War Cry I believe. Instead of the increase health by 10% and giving me ~300 health every second, I might switch to the one that increases resistances by 50%. I have a feeling that will be huge depending on the items that we can get for Hell and Inferno.
  15. Superstate

    Superstate IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    It's a good build imthedan, it's close to my WW build if WMMW isn't nerfed come release. Wind Shear might be overkill for fury if WMMW isn't nerfed.


    On the topic of WW, I have a sneaking suspicion that it works as a channeled spell in that it has cycles, which means that the 110% wpn dmg is spread out over all attacks in one cycle. The reason I believe so is simply because if it isn't, it becomes very powerful otherwise. If you have watched the WW skill video you'll see that WW still has the 3 aps previously datamined(?) attached to it, which means that if it isn't cyclic it deals 110% for each of those attacks. It's not difficult to realize that an attack dealing 330% wpn damage per second possibly infinitely kept up with WMMW, and AoE on top of that, is simply ridiculously overpowered.

    I find it much more balanced if it deals 110% base in one cycle, ie over those three attacks.

    It's either cyclic and/or WMMW is nerfed (probably both is required for balancing purposes). :scratchchin:
  16. imthedan

    imthedan IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    Yeah, very good points. I'm thinking it'll probably get nerfed to do 110% over a full cycle. They may even boost the damage a little to something like 125% or something for the whole cycle. The only problem I see is that Cleave does 120% (or something similar) and it does it per swing to everything in front of him. WW is supposed to be a spender, so technically, it should do more damage. If Cleave does 120% damage to 3+ with however many APS you get, then I don't know if WW is THAT overkill. 340% damage a sec is overkill, but 110% damage a sec is under powered in my opinion. They have to find a happy medium for it.


  17. Superstate

    Superstate IncGamers Member

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    Re: What are your 2-hander Barbarian Builds?

    It is a fair point, spenders are generally "weak" though. They are stronger than prim gens, but they've been very nerfed since the beta started (Crimson Hammer had ~380% wpn dmg right?). I guess just nerfing WMMW might be enough then. I'm tired. :cloud9:

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