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Tricky Diablo 3 Weapon Damage with Rubies vs. Emeralds

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 Community Forum' started by Hound, Jun 10, 2013. | Replies: 32 | Views: 31967

  1. Hound

    Hound IncGamers News Service

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    Patch v1.07 brought major improvements to the bonuses granted by socketing Rubies in weapons, and while it took most players a while to give up on Emeralds and their seductive +Critical Hit Damage, I'm seeing more and more players these days with Rubies in their weapons. Rubies aren't always a better choice, but they do add considerably more damage for some characters, with some weapons. Figuring which gems are best can be tricky, though. Hence the example below, which I was going to include in the recent <a href="http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/diablo-iii-auction-house-user-errors">Auction House User Errors post</a>, except that it required too much explanation. Read on and learn from my mistake.

    I hadn't used Rubies in weapons until recently, and I was prompted to switch when comparing weapons in the Auction House. My Monk's fist had a Perfect Star Emerald (L13 = +90% CD), and I did the right click + show similar items thing. And on that listing was a fist with virtually the same base damage as my Fist, but with a Flawless Star Ruby (L12 = +80 min/max damage). And it was about 3000 DPS more than my fist, and mine had better IAS.

    To restate, another fist, with nearly the same base damage, and a Ruby that was one tier lower than my Emerald, was doing considerably more DPS. Seemed like a good idea to see how much a Ruby would do in my weapon.

    [gallery ids="347807,347805,347806"]

    Click through for the rest of the story, and explanation why the 80 damage difference turns into 190 damage once the Ruby is applied.

    <!--more-->

    Before I get into the issues with Rubies, keep in mind that it's complicated to compare Rubies and Emeralds and very dependent on your other gear. Since Emeralds add CD, the higher your CC the more that bonus will do for you. (Since you get more Crit Damage when you do more Crit Hits.) You could add 500% to your CD without making much of a difference if you only had 1% CC, while adding just 100% CD makes a huge difference if you've got 60% CC, or if your CD is very low, so adding 50% makes a huge change.

    So, my Monk's story:

    I had the 880 fist already (self found, no less). It was doing pretty good damage once I put a L14 Radiant Star Ruby in it, and making me happy with the life steal and IAS and inherent Crit damage. (Bear in mind that I'm playing Hardcore, where the goal of gear isn't just max DPS; it's good-enough DPS with other stats, since dying = bad. A fact I learned first hand well when my previous P61 Monk detonated himself in .5 seconds beating on a Horde with Reflects Damage. He had really good DPS and IAS, and perhaps a bit less less LS/LoH, and HPs than would have been ideal.)

    But while my 880 fist had awesome stats, it did not have spirit regen, which is very handy. So when I saw that 800 fist with better CD, LS, spirit regen, and a socket, I thought it would do for an upgrade, at least for a while to speed my low MP farming. (Remember, this is Hardcore, where equipment is about more than the highest possible DPS. Since dying is bad.)

    So I bought the 800 DPS fist, unsocketed my Ruby, and stuck it into the new weapon, expecting the DPS to be somewhere around 1100, or about 80 less than my current Fist. Instead, it was what you see in the screenshots above. Here are the figures for easier comparison:

    <li>Old Fist, unsocketed: 369-809 = 882.1 DPS
    <li>New Fist, unsocketed: 321-823 = 800.8 DPS
    <li>Old Fist, socketed L14 Ruby: 563-1003 = 1172.3 DPS
    <li>New Fist, socketed L14 Ruby: 451-953 = 982.8 DPS</li>

    Did you join me in a retroactive WTF? How does the old one go up 290 DPS with the Ruby, while the new one only goes up 182? I wondered about buggy black weapon damage, but they're both elemental damage. Or if the IAS on the old Fist was somehow scaling up the damage in a weird way. Or if it was a display error. But they both showed the appropriate damage on my char screen, and I even tested them and the old Fist was clearly much faster.

    So what's the deal? Note the specific weapon stats:

    [caption id="attachment_347807" align="aligncenter" width="608"]<a href="http://diablo.incgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/fist-compare1.jpg"><img src="http://diablo.incgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/fist-compare1.jpg" alt="Fist beats Fist." width="608" class="size-full wp-image-347807" /></a> Base fists compared.[/caption]

    The old 880 Fist gets + Arcane damage AND +49% damage. The 800 Fist just gets + Lightning damage. Thus when I stuck in the Ruby, the old one increased the base damage, which was then multiplied by 49%, which is why the weapon damage went from (369-809 = 882.1 DPS) to (563-1003 = 1172.3 DPS) with the Ruby. That's +194-194, instead of 130-130. (.49 x 130 = 63.7. 63.7 + 130 = 194)

    Thus a Radiant Star Ruby in my Monk's old Fist does considerably more than a Marquise Ruby would do in another weapon that didn't have the +% damage bonus. Keep that in mind for your own gear, and read the fine print on weapons, if you're debating between a Ruby and an Emerald.

    Anyone else noticed this sort of thing before, or spotted other hidden bonuses that can be leveraged gloriously?
  2. Rpgguy

    Rpgguy IncGamers Member

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    There is also the issue of attack speed. Let say you have 2 weapons - a hammer with 400-600 damage with 1.0 attack speed = 500 dps and a dagger with 300-366 damage but 1.5 attack speed so 500 dps as well.
    Now both have sockets and you put a ruby with +130 min and max damage - now you have the hammer do 530-730 damage with 1.0 attack speed for 630 dps but the dagger does 430-496 damage with 1.5 attack speed for 694 dps.

    As you can see faster attack speed benefits from ruby more , in your example the 1st weapon had 10% more attack speed which explains why it benefited more than the slower weapon.
  3. nurman

    nurman IncGamers Member

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    Math is fabulous, they said...
  4. FaultyYogurt

    FaultyYogurt IncGamers Member

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    This still doesn\'t help tell me on what specific conditions and what percent Damage & CC using a Ruby becomes better than using an Emerald.
  5. SoM

    SoM IncGamers Member

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    that\'s why i became a gynecologist, so i can look at manholes all day
  6. yovargas

    yovargas IncGamers Member

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  7. Muggs

    Muggs Clan Officer - US West Hardcore

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    Flux I suggest reading this:

    http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394773

    It is the theory crafting at teamliquid on when to use an emerald vs when to use a ruby. I am at the point where a marquise ruby is better for my dps but I am not at the point in HC where I have an extra 160million to blow on a gem. It is a very good read and explains in detail what is what.
  8. FaultyYogurt

    FaultyYogurt IncGamers Member

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    Yeah that\'s what I thought. You\'ve got to have fairly high +damage % on the item when 1H to use a ruby over emerald, but really stinkin\' high damage % if you are dual wielding.

    I switched out the emerald on my dual wield monk item with 29% damage (monk 37% crit chance). The damage shown on the item itself went up by nearly 100 points, but my character\'s dps went down by nearly 10K.
  9. trocadero

    trocadero IncGamers Member

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    Thank you. I\'ve been looking for something like this, b/c I have a bunch of rubies lying around, but I\'m too cheap to cube them w/o knowing if it\'s worth it.
  10. craezyjim

    craezyjim IncGamers Member

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    its not all about the character sheet damage. ruby can help a sword or dagger do much higher low end damage. ie, making a 300-900 damage weapon do 430-1030. low end damage goes up 43%, high end only 14%, but this can be the difference between taking 1 vs 2 swings to kill trash when you roll the low side of the damage range.
  11. vileguy

    vileguy IncGamers Member

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    You can\'t break it down into hard numbers, because there are too many that can vary. In the end, you have to do the math or just try both to see.
  12. spiffymcbang

    spiffymcbang D3 Trade Moderator<br> America, USEast (D2)<br> Ne

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    Also try D3up.com for easy comparisons and simulations of gear changes. It is a very useful tool.
  13. blackoutchili

    blackoutchili IncGamers Member

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    it\'s not a bug, it\'s a feature!
  14. blackoutchili

    blackoutchili IncGamers Member

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    this by the way seems to be the core diablo 3 design philosophy
  15. FlyBoyG

    FlyBoyG IncGamers Member

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    I miss referring to crafting gems into higher quality as ‘cubing.’
  16. PreyingMantis

    PreyingMantis IncGamers Member

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    Bug? It is called math I know it is hard for a lot of kids and adults but it is not a hard concept.
  17. trocadero

    trocadero IncGamers Member

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    Well, you have to get a cursed Crucible for Shen. Guess we can call it Crubing?
  18. Menlyn

    Menlyn Guest

    Welcome to patch 1.07.

    I woulda hoped people would have done the sims a few months ago.
    A few Do\'s and Don\'ts regarding rubies for some curious people here.

    1. Rubies only really shine at the higher tiers. For example the difference between a Marquise and perfect star emerald is 10% (110% vs 100%). On the other hand the difference between the same level of rubies is 23% (160 vs 130).

    2. There are 2 modifiers which make a ruby shine. Firstly is the +% damage as flux mentioned. The other is the attack speed of the weapon. Thus on you can multiply the \"weapon dps\" gain by % damage and AS. In the case of the fist in flux\'s example, the muliplier is 1.4x1.49= 2.086. Rubies work better in faster weapons. The best example is calamity, which is both VERY VERY fast AND has a good % dmg modifier. A perfect calamity will give a modifier of 2.664 meaning a marquise ruby will add 426 DPS.

    3. Rubies don\'t work very well with Dual wield (there are exceptions). The ruby only adds damage to one weapon, while the emerald will give you crit damage, which applies to both weapons. Rule of thumb, if you\'re dual wielding, go with emeralds. (This goes double for spin2win barbs).

    4. Seriously guys, use a calculator. I like d3up.com but there are others. You can sim the damage changes from weapons very easily, and can find out which one is better for your exact build.
  19. Nequam

    Nequam IncGamers Member

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    I know the math. But, common... If to have fun in a game I need be a math teacher, something is very wrong.
  20. nZifnab

    nZifnab IncGamers Member

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    That +49% weapon damage doesn\'t affect damage from rubies *at all*. The difference is purely from the attack speed differences between the weapons. 100 damage in a faster weapon is *obviously* going to give you more DPS than 100 damage in a slower weapon would....

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