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Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Fabian, Mar 5, 2010. | Replies: 339 | Views: 49676

  1. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    Introduction
    I hesitate to call this a guide, or even a mini-guide, because those words carry certain connotations. I've spent a lot of time running Travincal under different conditions in the last year or so, and have had some success with it. I've received many PMs lately asking for advice regarding Travincal running. This thread is simply my attempt to summarize what I think is important about Travincal running and pass on what I've learned to those who are looking to get into it. I sort of assume you're semi familiar with some stuff though, or this would get too long and detailed with me explaining things I'm sure most of you have a pretty good grasp on already (why Find Item is good, etc).

    Please keep in mind that there obviously are many possible successful approaches to most things, Travincal running included. This is just me outlining things/strategies which have worked for me, and if you have a different approach, good for you. Let us know, maybe we can all learn something :)


    Build
    I'm going to be talking about one specific build; the Whirlwind Barbarian. I want a Barbarian because of Find Item, and Whirlwind is the most effective killer. Others have had varying amounts of success with a Frenzy build, or a Warcry build. If you prefer something like that, by all means, but this will focus on what I know, which is Whirlwind.

    As for skills, you want to max Whirlwind and your Weapon Mastery. I recommend maxing Battle Orders to help with safety. I recommend maxing Find Item to help with efficiency. I recommend putting a point in Increased Speed to help with efficiency (speed), and a point in Natural Resistance to help with safety. After that, it comes down to what your specific character needs. If you're struggling with resists, more points in Natural Resistance would probably be well spent. More points in Increased Speed could very well be worthwhile, especially without Enigma, but keep in mind that too many points in Increased Speed could make it tougher to Whirl effectively, as you'll move through and past the Council members quicker. Experiment and see what works for you and what you need.


    Strategy
    My opinion is that an effective WW Trav Barb will need these basic things:

    * High damage per second
    * A combination of life and resists high enough to operate safely
    * A source of Life Leech and a source of Mana Leech
    * A source of Teleport

    The second point might seem obvious, but I think it's an important one, as my experience has been that as soon as you have to deviate from your plan to get to safety, the seconds will add up very rapidly. You want to execute the same plan run after run, and if you constantly have to adjust your play to avoid death, it will be impossible to be as effective as you'd like.

    You want to always start the fight in the same place, and you want the fight to be the same way every time. The best way to ensure this happens is a source of Teleport. It will place you and your merc (which is very important) in the exact same place as always, meaning you will know how the Council members will attack you, and you will know exactly how to whirl to hit the maximum amount of members at all times. It will also mean that Decrepify will trigger from your merc within a few seconds, rather than having the merc lag horribly behind, probably never triggering Decrep and mostly just attracting some council members away from you, prolonging the fight. Not good. Note that one Teleport per run is enough if you're playing with Teleport Charges, I would typically run from the waypoint to the point where I can just teleport inside the Council house, where the members would be waiting for me.

    Mana leech and life leech are fairly self explanatory, anyone with melee experience will know how important they are to keep fighting. I recommend keeping some mana potions in the belt for Mana Burn, which is annoying and will disrupt your fight.


    Gear Choices
    After having received so many PMs about gear choice for a Trav Barb, I want to put that information in one place and write a bit about the popular choices. In general though, this is my philosophy:

    You want Teleport, you want dual leech. After that, you want AR to hit, and you want damage so your hits are effective. You also want to make sure that you're safe at all points. Keep these overall goals in mind when choosing your gear.


    Helm: Some sort of insane rare Ciclet (especially with Teleport charges) is always possible I suppose, but Arreat's Face is really tough to beat. Note that Arreat's has Life Leech, which solves the first of the three must-haves, at least with a good roll. Then again, more life leech can only help with safety, so if you can find more on your gear, all the better. I have mine socketed with a rare Jewel with the Diamond affix (+ED and AR against Demons), and some other helpful stuff. Damage, regular ED, stats, resists, it's all good. Do note that the bug with %ED and +damage in a jewel socketed in a non-weapon does NOT exist when that %ED comes in the Diamond or Pearl prefix. Ragnarod tested this for me (thanks!), and these jewels work as they should.

    Amulet: This is the easiest place to get Teleport charges. Ideally, you can get Mana Leech here too, or maybe more Life Leech (blood crafted amulets are great for this purpose as they will automatically spawn with a small amount of Life Leech to supplement the leech from Arreat's. If you don't go with a rare/crafted amulet, Highlord's Wrath is a very good choice despite the IAS being useless. 30+ DS still has a huge effect. Mara's should be fine if you need to focus more on safety, and the 2 skills means it has some offensive qualities as well. Crescent Moon is another possibility to solve any Leeching problems. I'm a fan of either a great rare/craft, or Highlord's.

    Body Armor: There are some good choices here, unfortunately they're all expensive. Enigma is fantastic, and certainly not only because of the Teleport. The huge Strength bonus helps with damage output, as do the Skills. FRW, DR% and MF are just gravy. Fortitude is great, as is Chains of Honor. As far as cheaper alternatives go, I'm not so sure. Lionheart seems like an ok combination of offensive and defensive mods. Arkaine's Valor? Your guess is as good as mine. Any of the three expensive runewords will be great here, but note that Duress is not so good because of its Cold damage.

    Weapons: You want to hit the last WW breakpoint with both weapons you're using. I've seen people swear by Death despite it being slow, and while I'm sure it's a fine weapon, I'm not sold and I'd prefer an Oath over it. I recommend Oath, Grief, Beast and Breath of the Dying (sounds insane, but I'm sure we'll see them once 1.13 has been played a while). Keep in mind that weapon range is important for WW; for this reason I recommend you making Oath in either a Balrog Blade (sword) or Berserker Axe (axe). I recommend using 1.07 bases, as etheral weapons from 1.07 do more damage in later versions than their 1.13 counterparts. If you make Grief, the only reasonable Sword alternative is Phase Blade, which unfortunately has a range of 2. In a Phase Blade, the IAS roll on the Grief won't matter, which is a nice bonus. You could make it in a Colossus Blade, however you'd need an IAS roll of either 39 or 40 to hit the last WW breakpoint, plus it would need constant repairing. The first ebugged 1.07 eth Grief 39+ IAS Colossus Blade I see on this forum will get massive style points from me :) For axes, again Berserker Axe is the base item I recommend for Grief, again 1.07 ethbugged. Note that these axes will not reach the last WW breakpoint if the IAS roll is 30-33, so making one is a bit of a gamble. Note that Grief is particularly good for a Travincal runner as it carres a huge amount of %ED to Demons on top of its already huge damage. I've heard some decent things about Death Cleaver, so that could be worth trying. A nice bonus with Death Cleaver would be getting an extra socket; your Mana Leech could probably come from here with a Vex rune. This is all untested though, I think Oath and Grief are more effective personally.

    Belt: A 1.07 Mavina's Tenet is probably very nice here, because of the 40 FRW and huge Mana Leech. I haven't tried it myself though. String of Ears is another good choice if you want more Life Leech. A great rare/crafted belt could probably work as well. I use String of Ears, myself.

    Gloves: Laying of Hands, period. It provides more damage than Fortitude does, and I don't think any other alternative comes close. The 1.07 version has 50% Fire Absorb instead of 50% Fire Resist, which is probably more beneficial.

    Boots: My preferred choice here is Gore Rider, for its huge offensive bonuses and its FRW. I'm sure other choices would work here, though, depending on your character's needs.

    Rings: These slots are great for adding leech if you don't have it elsewhere. Mana Leech especially might be tough to come by from other places on your gear, so if that's the case, this is your chance. I prefer rare rings packed with things that your character needs; for instance leech, AR, stats, life, resists, damage, FCR etc. There are very many mods a Rare ring can have which benefits your character. I use two rare rings on my runner, which add mana leech (which I don't have elsewhere) and lots of AR and Strength, as well as FCR and some resists.

    Weapon Switch: A popular choice is dual Ali Baba's socketed with Lem's or Ist's. I don't particularly like this choice, instead preferring dual Echoing weapons or HoTo's if you have them. The Warcries will help with your and your merc's safety, and will raise your hork% by 2% (probably), effectively making your runs around 1.3-1.5% more effective depending on run time. If this is significant enough for you to choose over other alternatives is up to you; for me the choice is easy as HoTo also makes teleporting to and from the council significantly faster, as well as casting war cies (both Battle Orders and Find Item).

    Merc Setup: The mercenary typically gets into a lot of trouble when Conviction spawns. In general, he will mostly take elemental damage from the Council. For this reason, I like the Kira's/Guardian Angel combination to raise his resists to 90 across the board. Another armor I've tested to moderate success is Gladiator's Bane. My recommended setup is Reaper's/Kira's/Guardian Angel though. Reaper's is the only weapon I recommend, the Decrepify makes an enormous difference in effectiveness. With some practice you will learn to always target the Decrep'd monsters, and the council will drop that much faster as a result.

    Charms: This can be a great place to make your character well rounded, fixing any holes you think he might have. More often that not, I believe you will want to focus on AR and damage. I've done a lot of math to figure out which kinds of charms actually help the most, unfortunately the results vary based on the rest of the characters. Specifically, max damage from charms is more helpful the less damage the rest of your gear does, in general. It's probably smart to either do the math yourself (which is fun!), or not worry too much about it and just use whatever good Sharp and/or Steel charms you have. It's worth nothing that my best 1.07 damage charms (+23 max damage GC, +20 max damage, 3 Str GC) are the two "worst" GC's I'm wearing for my characters, and my plain +20 max damage GC doesn't make the cut. I use 5 Steel GC's and 1 Sharp GC, as well as the two 1.07 charms.


    Some more thoughts:
    The council is no joke, especially at higher player settings. They're level 88 monsters, so I recommend that you level up as far as you can/feel like. Especially your merc will have trouble if your character level is too low. This will severely impact your run time, as you will expend too much energy on keeping you and/or your merc safe.

    Don't be afraid to place stat points in either Dexterity or Strength, as you see fit. I had 4343 life for a long time, then I respecced and placed some of those points into Strength. I'm just as safe at ~3900 life, and next time I respec I'll probably go down further still. I prefer this method over putting fewer points in Battle Orders, as I have nothing else to spend the skill points on anyway. Right now I have everything I want, skill point wise, and I have 14 points remaining to spend. That's with 0 points in Increased Speed (Enigma and teleporting back to Act IV after each run means I don't feel like it would help more than it'd hurt when whirling), 1 point in Natural Resistance (enough for me), 1 point in Double Swing for Mana Burn and 1 point in Berserk for when Ismail spawns PI.


    Conclusion
    I know that's a lot of text. Here's the gist of it:

    Get dual leech, high damaging weapons, and a source of Teleport. Put Reaper's on your merc, then load up on AR and damage and make sure to stay safe. From there, just focus on being efficient, which means having a high level Find Item and practicing.

    There's more stuff I could write, but this is more than long enough as it is, and it'd mostly be concerning micro optimizations most people probably don't care about anyway :)


    Hope this block of text helped you, or gave you some ideas or different ways to think about something. If you have questions or comments, please ask away and I'd be glad to answer. Thanks for reading!
  2. BetaBlocker

    BetaBlocker Banned

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    Just thought I'd drop another good option for merc helmet: Mine uses a Steel Shade. At lvl 91 he has 55 all res naturally so with Guardian Angel he needs 35 res all to max at 90. My armour and helmet is Raled, but I could drop something else in one of them as long as it has 5% fire res. The +6 to fire absorb means he can take as many hits as he likes from the hydras, only when convicted he takes damage.

    Haven't run into any big problems against other elements, except the rare purple pot when meeting something like Cold Enchanted+Lightning Enchanted but he still handles that pretty well...

    the pretty low number of absorb might not look like much but it's of great use!
  3. LongingForDeath

    LongingForDeath IncGamers Member

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    Looks good :thumbup:. A few thoughts, though:

    1) Laying of Hands: I use the 1.10+ version with the fire res instead of absorb. As long as you have your fire res maxed and wear a Dwarf Star ring, you barely take any damage from Hydras or fire enchanted death explosions at all. The 50% absorb on the 1.07 LoH look nice on paper but aren't really needed in my opinion.

    2) Source of teleport: I acknowledge that you will save a few seconds because you don't have to walk halfway across the temple to get into the room. But to position your merc into the room you can just as well take the stairs to the Durance and quickly go back into the room. Merc problem solved, and this solution doesn't even take a second to accomplish. Of course, this makes only sense if you have a map where all council members spawn inside the room, which I would recommend anyway. They have a tendency to split up when they're outside and those water snakes usually distract the merc, which is bad.

    3) Merc + Conviction: As you mentioned, the merc will get into serious trouble when Conviction is involved. My merc will usually die, unless I can eliminate the guy with the aura quickly. I haven't tested it yet, but would it be a good idea to put a Chains of Honor or Smoke on the merc instead of the Guardian Angel? That should keep his resists maxed under Conviction. My merc barely takes any damage from Hydras with 90% fire res, so I don't think it would be too bad to go down to 75% with him. Thoughts?
  4. Pijus

    Pijus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    You forgot to mention Metalgrid. Resists and AR.

    My merc did fine with 75% res(he had like 18%ll with Reapers, and was level 88), so a high res armour is probably a good idea.
  5. bcoe

    bcoe IncGamers Member

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    Fabian - great write-up, I enjoyed it very much.

    I disagree about maxing BO. I think you need enough to make sure there is no chance of it running out mid-run, but I think a few points can be shaved off and put to better use elsewhere (nat resists, DS, etc.). The other issue that I think is worth planning for is mana burn. I find that mana burn really slows down runs and vastly increases risk of dying. I find that a few points in double swin (enough to get to slvl 9 after +skills) really helps. Flashing to DS after mana burn keeps you killing and leeching and gets you back to whirling faster than pots.

    Overall: great work as always!

    EDIT: you mentioned it all. Reading on my iPhone during a conference wasn't that effective, I guess.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  6. Ragnarod

    Ragnarod DiabloII.Net Pal

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    Very nice Fabian, I'm sure it'll be of great help to a lot of people, I'm glad I could contribute a little bit to it :thumbup: % absorb was capped at 40% in 1.10, that's what makes the .07 LoH comparable to the 1.10 version, I agree it's probably not worth it to hunt for the .07 ones.
  7. Corrupted

    Corrupted IncGamers Member

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    A few points from my end:

    1) I don't think teleport is -THAT- important, using the stairs works fine for most people.

    2) Kiras+Treachery+Reaper's is my preferred merc setup, getting the council decrepified as fast as possible is key in these runs imo for both its safety and killing-speed increasing reasons. This setup means lots of IAS, plenty of res and more importantly: CBF
    My merc doesn't die from elemental attacks as I rarely let him tank it.

    3) Grief in a Zweihander works well if you want a legit one, the problem is that its not much use for zealots though. But hey, Lo is but a countess rune now :thumbup:

    3b) I think "ATMA bug" is the right term to use so as new people don't get confused about what actually produces the result of this, i.e. a 3rd party program.

    4) There's a whirling technique worth learning against FE+LE monsters, it would be great if it could be included in the guide/youtube'd.
  8. LongingForDeath

    LongingForDeath IncGamers Member

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    One more thing I forgot to ask. Why Double Swing? I've seen it quite often lately, but why? If I get mana burned, I simply use Concentrate to fill up my mana again.
  9. Nepenthe

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    This is a very good guide, congrats Fabian. I have two 'questions' for you all.
    My horker currently has a slvl 9 ds and a slvl 29 find item. I have also used a point in berserk, as i tried obediance+vamp gaze+guardian angel build (mainly because cold damage on reaper's shattered a corpse every now and then). My remaining points will most likely end up in iron skin, yet i wanted to ask-has anyone tested battle cry?
    Also, has anyone tried using non ebugged grief zerkers against the council? How fast does the durability burn out? I don't have a Lo currently, as i used my first one a forti, but it would be nice to know as phase blades do not satisfy me aesthetically.
  10. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    Regarding Teleport: Could you do runs without Teleport? Of course. Would they be efficient? I don't think so. Considering the opportunity cost, being 20% (guess/estimate based on how I did when I found a good Teleport amulet) less effective doesn't seem like a good idea. You could easily do runs without mana leech too, you'd just have to drink lots of potions and stuff. It'd be a lot slower of course, but sure it could be done. I think Teleport works the same way here.

    bcoe, that edit saved me from restating everything, so thanks :) The Double Swing idea is taken from your Pindle runner. I think it works decently enough, more often than not just swinging normally isn't much less effective though. When I figure out what I should use those spare points for, I'll consider putting less in BO. I definitely prefer maxing BO and skimping on the Vitality points, rather than the other way around, for now though, like I mentioned. As an aside, the calculator I used said Double Swing is free from level 6? I don't know myself, after I put 1 point in it, it jumped past that level.

    Corrupted, I could definitely see Treachery working well. I'll try that some more, it's been a while since I did. I don't know what the whirling technique you're referring to is, could you describe what you mean?

    Nephente, I don't know what Battle Cry does. If you think it might help, definitely try it out and see for yourself. I haven't tried non-eth Griefs, so I can't help you on that, sorry.
  11. EatSleepDiablo

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    Re merc:

    For my melee characters (and Windy), I use Andys (w/+15%IAS; ruby jewel)+Treachery+EthReaper with (w/+15%IAS; ED jewel) to get to 95% IAS. Badies are constantly decrepified.
  12. GibItam

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    I am currently building a barb for this purpose, so far I found it interesting. My experience with Barbs is mainly from 1.09 where enough dr and lifeleech would make my barb imune to Iron Maiden.

    My barb is now lvl 61, and I play HC in 1.13b. For this reason I planned on safety first, but a lot of my ideas seem to be confirmed here. But I am stuck with some questions. I have made an Oath small crescent which is basically the best weapon I can afford right now ;-). I will not dual wield, I will go for a Stormshield, Shaftstop combination. As well as wearing Thundergod vigor, a dwarfstar and waterwalk.

    Basically my aim is to have maxed resist and fire and lightning even higher than 75 with some absorp added. The stormshield and shaft bring me what I have not seen mentioned here: Damage reduction % (DR%). My char will have 65%.

    I only have past experience from some years ago with barbarians in 1.09 as mentioned in the beginning, as noone mentions dr% is it not necessary in the whirlwind barb in the 1.13b patch? Or am I just planning over protective as I play HC? At the moment I have max block and 2400 life, I play nm baalruns on players 8 and never even get scratched. Even though I can't even equip the stormshield, yet. I still have some leveling to go before I can start trying my build on the council in hell. As stated safety for me is far more important than the run times.

    Are there some more people that run travincal on HC in the 1.13b Patch? Are the ones that run it on SC 1.13b never dying or are you guys just going for the fastest run times and accept the occasional death?

    Many thanks for your input.
  13. Twoflower

    Twoflower Banned

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    two things : i am sure i read somewhere that DR is capped at 50% ? And dont you skip DR because it only works for melee damage and the council is more about elemental atacks ?



  14. Kimppi

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    You will basically be always amped when running the council and if they happen to get might/fanat or both of the auras, they can hit pretty hard.

    And DR is capped at 50%.
  15. ZeN

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    I am not sure if the game play with a barb affects merc that much, but while running Travincal with my blizzardress I see that 75 resists is not enough. I would guess that's because of BO...

    Kira + Reaper + Treachery gets him elemental killed half the time. She and the merc are lvl 95.

    On the other hand - the setup that Fabian suggested - with Guarding Angel - is working perfectly. Merc dies only to some very nasty mods combination. Like cursed and with fanaticism...
  16. Corrupted

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    When you play a sorceress you rely on your mercenary to do all the tanking though and you don't benefit nearly as much from decrepify as a physical damaging character does.



  17. VoX Dei

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    I know its raining runes in 1.13, but still socket Death Cleaver with a Vex for mana leech :strong: What about a Perfect Skull?

    Good job with the guide :thumbup: Thanks for taking the time.
  18. ZeN

    ZeN IncGamers Member

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    But that should not affect his survivability that much, should it?

    My point is - some here suggest that 75 resists all is enough. My experience is completely different.



  19. GibItam

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    I know it is capped at 50%, but I want it at maximum and hence use 2 items with respectively 30 and 35%. Like stated previously I might be overprotective as I only play HC and have obsession with maxed resist, absorp and dr% or dr- fixed) I am not going for the stormshield, string of ears combo, because I want Thundergod vigor for the absorp. That is also why I wear waterwalk (+5 max fire res) and a dwarfstar. To cover both elemental and physical attacks and minimize the danger. Survivability is for me the most important, only after that I will try to optimize run speeds ;-)

    If I really will find plentyful runes higher than Mal (my highest since I restarted single player) I might even think about using this as a weapon with zod and 4 ias ed jewels. (Keep dreaming eh, I found one 15 ias with ed jewel this far :whistling: And who am I kidding I probably make many other runewords before ever putting this weapon at use.

    Rune Master
    Ettin Axe
    One-Hand Damage: 167 to 338
    Durability: 13 of 13
    Required Dexterity: 35
    Required Strength: 135
    Required Level: 72
    Axe Class - Slow Attack Speed
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 94
    Fingerprint: 0x3c6f99b9
    +242% Enhanced Damage
    +5% to Maximum Cold Resist
    Cannot Be Frozen
    Ethereal (Cannot be Repaired), Socketed (5: 0 used)

    Realgar Jewel of Fervor
    Required Level: 37
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 85
    Fingerprint: 0x8481e53f
    +23% Enhanced Damage
    15% Increased Attack Speed


  20. Corrupted

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    Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

    My point was that as a barbarian you should be doing a lot of tanking yourself, sharing the pain. A sorceress doesn't do that, it relies entirely on the mercenary to tank and in that case 75 resist all is rarely enough, especially because your bo level is also lower.



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