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Thoughts on the skill system

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 Beta Forum' started by Nysyarc, Apr 21, 2012. | Replies: 22 | Views: 2526

  1. Nysyarc

    Nysyarc IncGamers Member

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    Thoughts on the skill system

    I've played the Wizard and Barbarian so far, and I'm a little disappointed with the way skills and skill runes are unlocked along with attributes automatically increasing. I mean there were two main reasons that Diablo 2 had such immense replay value, for me anyways:

    - Item and equipment looting. Knowing that a cool rare, set or unique item, or a rune or whatever could drop at any time. This aspect has remained intact I suppose although I have yet to see anything better than a magic item drop in the beta (may not be possible? Not sure). I'm also assuming socketables are no longer around, which is enormously unfortunate.

    - Essentially unlimited ways to build your character. I mean sure, for PvP you had to go with specific builds and crap but if you were just doing it for fun or playing single player you could invest in whatever skills and attributes you wanted/needed and play the same character class dozens of different ways.

    Having attributes increase automatically and skills progress in a linear fashion every single time you play the character will probably drain a lot of the replay value out of the game for me. I mean if you at least unlocked the skills linearly but then were able to invest in them to make them stronger, that'd be a vast improvement, but the only two ways to strengthen your skills are to get a better weapon (since they're all based on a % of weapon damage) and unlock skill runes for them... also linearly.

    Without gems, runes and jewels to socket into gear, a lot of the equipment customization goes down the drain, leaving item looting as the only real motivation for playing the game a second time with the same character... not a huge motivation on it's own really.

    I guess I've enjoyed the gameplay so far, I just don't really think I'll be able to enjoy it more than once with a given character class. Anybody else in the same boat or do most people actually enjoy having no control over how their character progresses?
  2. MagisterMan

    MagisterMan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    I guess passive skills kind of fill the role of allocating attribute points. Still, I wish Blizz would have kept the stats points and changed them up a bit from D2 so that there wasn't just one clear cut way to put them (i.e. all vitality). They chose a streamlined and intuitive system instead of a more complex system with more depth - oh well..
  3. FireIceTalon

    FireIceTalon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    Definitely like this skill system better than D2's, in almost every way possible. With D2, at least up until recently, you had to build your char right and if you didnt, you were basically SOL. Plus with D3, you get to use every skill in the game, so the amount of possible builds is almost endless. It is a simpler system, yet will allow for a larger range of style and game play in general i think.

    Yellow items in Beta are indeed very rare, they will probably be more common in the final release.


  4. Nysyarc

    Nysyarc IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    I guess when you consider that you can choose what skills you have active that adds some customization. I can see the same kind of problem happening though because obviously they can't balance every skill perfectly. There are inevitably going to be builds that are seen as "the best" and people will emulate them. And that still doesn't add replay value for starting a new character, because you can customize your current character however you want so there's no need to ever start fresh... although I suppose even Diablo 2 removed that aspect with their latest patch and allowing you to re-spend all of your attributes/skills.

    As far as having to build your character perfectly in D2, that was only for online PvP. I used to play single player and online with just a group of friends in private games and you could experiment with all kinds of builds. I imagine it's going to end up being similar for PvP in Diablo 3, there's no such thing as a video game that's perfectly balanced, so people will eventually find and abuse the best skill set-ups for each class.
  5. FireIceTalon

    FireIceTalon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    There will be cookie cutter builds for sure, but at least there will be more of them. I don't think a lack of diversity is going to be an issue - you have 30 or so skills per class, plus all the different rune stone skills and stones that can be applied to them. On the Blizz forum, someone actually took the time out to do the math on the number of possible builds, and it was literally something like 3 trillion. Granted, most of those will probably not be viable, but it is likely you will see at least half a million really strong possible builds, which is just insane.

    Besides even having a skill-system, this game is really much more similar to D1, which for me personally, is a good thing - love the dark atmosphere and huge mobs :)
  6. Hideo

    Hideo Banned

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    You don't understand a first thing about the word "build". The fact that you can choose skills at will does not constitute a "build". It's just customization at best. In fact, there is only ONE BUILD per class in D3. When you hit level 60, your build is done, then you can just customize it. In reality, there are NO BUILDS in D3. There is just customization.

    Do you understand the difference between customizing your house and building your house? D2 = building your house. D3 = customizing your house.



  7. FireIceTalon

    FireIceTalon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    Same ****, different pile. At any rate, D3 > D2. And that's final.
  8. Hideo

    Hideo Banned

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    And that's final only for you dude. For me D2 >>> D3, forever.



  9. xManiaCCCx

    xManiaCCCx IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    I don't get it..it's not build because it's not permanent..?


  10. raveharu

    raveharu IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    Hideous is just a troll who can't live out of his D2 bubble, don't bother.

    The new skill system is so diverse that it makes D2 skill tree look like a joke, then again D3 is made to be a huge improvement from D2.

    Some people just can't accept that fact.
  11. yovargas

    yovargas IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    While I am still pretty disappointed that skills/runes unlock in such a linear, dull way, there is simply no question that D3 has vastly more variety in playstyles than D2 could ever fathom. I'd say most characters already have more diverse in just the beta than D2 chars did.
  12. TarnishedHope

    TarnishedHope IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    Honestly, I think that's a bit presumptuous.

    It won't be until we reach end game that we can discuss the merit of diversity.



  13. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    It's not perfect but it's 800 times better than D2's which in hindsight is plain awful.

    Honorable mentions:

    -Everything scales. Most of the skills are purely % based and if not they scale by the level.
    -No skill points means you can maintain diversity. If you want to use more than 2 skills this is kinda must. Skillpoint systems generally don't work too well if you don't focus your points.
    -Forgiving. You can't make mistakes that forces you to reroll the character.
  14. yovargas

    yovargas IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    This alone crushes D2's system.


  15. FireIceTalon

    FireIceTalon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    ^^Indeed. I will wait to see how D3's PvP system is before giving my final 2 cents, but there is pretty solid chances it will be the strongest in the series, with D2 being the weak link (yes, I much prefer D1 over D2, easily). Customization, builds, call it what you want - chars on D3 will be a thousand times more versatile than any D2 char. This is the game that D2 SHOULD have been.
  16. nEgativezEro

    nEgativezEro IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    How often did you see rares, let alone uniques drop in D2 in the first few acts? Not too often, especially on the uniques. A quick search of the auction house will prove that rares do indeed drop in the beta, and of course in the full game there will be the full array of rares, sets, uniques and the like. And probably a lot more numerous and useful that there were in D2.

    Also items can have sockets in the game. Not socketables like in D2 with 1-6 sockets on an item (I.E. for runes words which don't exist in D3), but you can socket your items and augment stats with gems.

    You can do the same and more in D3. Even aside from PvP the number of effective builds in D2 were limited. Barbs were Frenzy or WW. Later on in the LoD you could do Singers, Throwers, Conc, etc, but still not a TON of builds that were worthwhile.

    In D3, yes there will be a lot of similar builds, a lot of crossover with certain skills since there are 6 available at a time, but there are so many different possible combinations, plus 5 different runes per skill that augment the function of the skill.

    I do agree to an extent here. You do still have the runes to look forward to unlocking, but you could also unlock the rune you want early on and that skill is done and over with. Nonetheless, I don't think I'll miss taking the 5 seconds to click a skill point into the chosen skill on each level up.

    The attributes are a double-edged sword. On one hand they were by in large useless in D2. Str for items, Dex for block if needed, everything into Vit was standard for 95% of the builds. With the same function in D3 they would be just as useless. However given the fact stats other than vitality are actually useful in D3, the potential to spend them in a specific manner would be nice to have. With a Barb you could pump STR more for damage, or VIT more for health. Though essentially that's what the socket/gem system is about now, so it's not the worst thing in the world to not have the customization there. In all honesty I didn't even miss stats points playing through the beta.

    Gems and socketed items are a part of the game still. Plus in addition to Weapons/Armor/Helms/Shields, now Belts, Amulets, and Bracers can have sockets as well. Now there are only 4 different gems which results in 8 different possible stats to augment, so it's not quite as diverse as jewels were in D2, but nonetheless you'll potentially have up to 6 spots to customize your attributes.

    It will remain to be seen how the replayability is in D3. What people forget about D2 is rolling new characters was pretty much the only "end-game" content you had. Once you got the best of the best gear, there was pretty much nothing left to use it on. Run Ubers I guess, but even that had limited fun. Now you can hit max cap, build up your gear MFing, then have Inferno to fight through and challenge that best of the best gear. On top of that, there's still the almost guaranteed expansion pack to look forward to in the future, plus whatever other DLC or addition content the developers will add down the line. PvP arenas will be added eventually after launch as well, which will add a lot to replayablity as well.

    Yes, there's little reason to re-level the same class to 60 twice, but I think there will be enough content, and fun to go around for quite a while, and we don't even know what else Blizz may have in store down the road for the game. I for one can't wait.


  17. Volpula

    Volpula IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    I want the new skill system with the old skill interface
  18. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    I love the new skill system. The only thing I miss is skill points i.e. players should be given a skill point, maybe once per 10 levels, to improve a skill of their choosing.

    Linearity? WHO CARES! it's fun! You change skills every level up, which makes it AWESOME. In D2, you were stuck to the same "zeal" skill (for instance) for 20-30 levels (or worse: levels 12-99), it could get VERY boring! In D3 you just swap skills every level up and it's never boring.
  19. mr punk

    mr punk IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    the latter would pretty much apply to the vast majority of the player base for most games including D3.


  20. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Thoughts on the skill system

    I think this is a feature, not a bug. The devs built D3 to work like WoW, not like D2. In D3 you are meant to create one char of each class at most, and then you play them forever. Maybe you respec now and then, but they don't think rerolling is part of what the game's longevity should be about. That's why we only get 10 char slots, an easily-reached max clvl, and the end game is about item grinding once you're at max level.

    Even if you do reroll, it's meant to be super easy to twink them up instantly, with the shared stash, shared artisans, shared gold, etc.



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