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The best MF question in years...

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by Psychonautical, Oct 24, 2013. | Replies: 9 | Views: 2005

  1. Psychonautical

    Psychonautical IncGamers Member

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    So, if I remember correctly, I was informed years ago that it is impossible for two uniques of the same item type (or possibly just two uniques of the same name, in the case of unique Thunder Mauls, for example) can not drop more than once in the same game.

    Is this still true. I recall a topic about how gambling for Stone of Jordans was a cinch back in the day due to this and the way that gambling worked back then. I am sure that has been changed, however, if the game still doesn't double-drop uniques, that presents a totally new perspective on magic finding.

    IF the game really CAN'T drop the same unique twice, wouldn't that mean that rather than MF a few typical spots, such as Mephisto and Pindleskin, over and over again to get good drops, the best method would be to kill AS MANY uniques, bosses, and champions in a single game, simply for the purpose of taking the crappy uniques out of the drop possibilities for the better bosses?

    For example, instead of sticking to act bosses and a few lesser ones, leaving the game and repeating that process, I would instead go for EVERY known unique and special monster I knew of. This would mean everyone from Bishibosh to Rakinishu to Griswold, Countess, Andariel, Fire Eye, Summoner, etc etc all the way to Diablo, Pindleskin and Baal, while hitting every random unique and champion on the way.

    This is a tall order to test and the idea just hit me before posting, so I will perhaps have updates later, I was just wondering if anyone else considered this or has tried? In theory, not only will killing more give you a good shot at plenty of jewels, charms, runes, gold and full purple potions, but wouldn't letting "The Cheiftain" drop in Catacombs Level 3 mean it WILL NOT show up when you get to Baal?

    Thanks for your input.
  2. Black Lotus

    Black Lotus IncGamers Member

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    I think it works the other way around. I've read something like this two years ago:

    Whenever the game "tries" to spawn some unique, and it has already been spawned in that game, the result base item rolls back to rare (or set), instead of unique, quality. This item will also have triple durability and some players call them "failed".

    I have never paid any attention to this, however. Also, there are a lot of ****ty uniques in the game, and I still get too few of them in each game (I clear almost 30-40% of Hell areas during every run), if you get my point.
  3. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    I think it was prior to 1.07 that if you wore a Nagelring and a Manald Heal, any drop that could spawn a unique ring would automatically be The Stone of Jordan. But that doesn't actually answer the question...
  4. Archone

    Archone IncGamers Member

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    Iirc, Ive found the same set items in the same games.

    Namtar is correct about the gambling of unique rings. If you already had a manald+nagel, the next unique ring would be a soj.



    I dont see how this could be true, I believe this was removed long ago.
  5. uglyfred

    uglyfred IncGamers Member

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    I've had the exact same set item drop twice from one monster (Meph) in one single drop. The only-drops-once-per-game thing only applies to unique items - hence the term "unique."

    And you're both correct in that they removed the "you've got Manald Heal & Nagelring already, so next you get SoJ" a long time ago. Like Black Lotus explained, if the game tries to roll a unique that's already dropped in that game, the actual dropped item is of "rare" quality (and if it has durability, that value will be tripled... and if there's no durability then you can't tell if it's a failed unique or just another rare item).
  6. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    Two of the same Unique item cannot be generated in the same game: as has already been pointed out, if the game tries to generate the same Unique item more than once, it will generate a rare item instead (with triple durability, where applicable). However, equipping a Unique item or keeping one in inventory, stash or Horadric Cube that was generated in a previous game doesn't prevent it from being generated again in a new game.

    This doesn't mean different Unique items of the same item type cannot be generated in the same game, so both Unique Thunder Mauls (The Cranium Basher and Earth Shifter) could be generated in the same game (although this is highly unlikely, and one being generated doesn't change the chance of the other being generated).

    If the Chieftain drops in the Catacombs Level 3 then Baal cannot drop it in the same game, but it doesn't increase the chance of him dropping any other Unique item because the game selects an item type first, then selects its quality: all it means is that if Baal tries to drop the Chieftain again, it will be replaced by a rare Battle Axe with triple durability.
  7. NoisemakerArrow

    NoisemakerArrow IncGamers Member

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    However, there were reports (very rarely) of a unique dropping twice, but at the same time. This was assumed to be a bug or small loophole.

    What about in the case of rings or amulets? There are no failed uniques in those cases, right? If a Nagelring drops, the next unique ring can be anything except a Nagelring, so would you be able to force the game to drop every unique ring in the same game by killing everything?
  8. khuzgan

    khuzgan IncGamers Member

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    No you wouldn't, as there are still failed unique rolls for rings and amulets. They just don't have any durability so it's impossible for you to identify the failed ones.
  9. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    Aside from bugs, it's been suggested that removing the first Unique item from a game (leave it on the ground until it disappears, sell it in town and then leave and return to reset inventory, transfer it to another character that leaves the game) allows the same to spawn again, but I don't know if anyone's ever tested this.

    As khuzgan has already posted, while multiple different Unique amulets and rings can spawn in the same game, this doesn't improve the drop chances of those that haven't dropped yet. If a Nagelring drops, the chances of any Unique ring dropping thereafter remain the same, but if Nagelring is selected again then it's replaced by a rare ring.
  10. Zoi

    Zoi IncGamers Member

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    As has been elaborated upon above, this is anything but "the best MF-question in years": Item rolls do not work in such a manner: the base item type is determined first.

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