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Summoner hybrid

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Asterism, Apr 5, 2012. | Replies: 10 | Views: 6813

  1. Asterism

    Asterism IncGamers Member

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    Summoner hybrid

    I used to have a summoner with a maxed Raise Skeleton, Skeleton Mastery and Poison Nova but the Poison Nova was barely doing any support damage at all. My remaining points were used to pump the synergies for PN. Is there a better hybrid option? Or should I just max mages instead?
  2. zaphodbrx

    zaphodbrx IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    Psn summon hybrids usually focus on psn, not summon.
    So max the poison skills, max skeletons and put 1+ in skeleton mastery.
    Mages suck.
  3. hubb

    hubb IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    Zaph summed it up nicely (I was going to say it in more words). Poison isn't particularly strong when you don't build your char around it, but a well geared summoner doesn't lose too much since the most important part of that build is Amp, a good merc and CE.

    What gear have you got to put on him?
  4. Asterism

    Asterism IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    I'm using the Trang Oul set, 3+ summon amulet, marrowwalk, some rare rings and skillers. I actually started out as a pure summoner but decided to invest in the poison tree only because of the psn dmg bonus from the TO set.
    The problem is my skellies kill well on their own so I find my psn dmg to be of no use. I was thinking about respecing and drop the psn tree altogether.

    About the mages; I know they're inferior to the warriors but I've always liked mages and they do add some support damage. If I'd make a pure summoner what where should I put my last skill points after maxing RS, SM and CE?
  5. zaphodbrx

    zaphodbrx IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    TO set is very solid for a poison build. Even at high psettings ( eg. p7 pits are no sweat ).
    You can get some ideas here ( my poison necro ).
    Poison and CE does most of the damage, summons are basically just distraction.
  6. Asterism

    Asterism IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    I read your guide and it made me very interested in making a poisonmancer =P
    Are your skellies only meat shields or do they add enough damage to make it count?
    Cause I was thinking about only using Revives instead and save the points for other skills like bone wall and curses.
  7. zaphodbrx

    zaphodbrx IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    In that build the skeletons don't do any damage I'm afraid. Meat shields only.
    I use skeletons instead of revives because revives AI is very bad and it is hard to keep them. I still put one point in revive- its useful now and then.

    Now if you wanted to make a summon necromancer, that's okay too. I have a summoner necro as well, though I don't use TO set for that.
    But you can't have both effective summons and effective poison nova. It's asking too much.

    Regarding mages, sure give them a try if you want. They are really, really bad though.
  8. KiraZ

    KiraZ IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    I really boils down to whether you like fishy more or poison necro more.
    If going fishy heavy:
    20 Raise Skele
    20 Skele Mast
    20 PNova
    20 PDagger/PExplode (max last)
    1 usual utility skills

    If going more pois:
    Substitute 20 from Skele Mast to whichever Pdagger/PExplode you haven't maxed, and SM is maxed last

    It is possible to have full fishy+pnova build on 1 necro, but it requires a LOT of item consideration and will be done at 99 (no joke):
    20 SM
    20 RS
    20 PNova
    20 PDagger
    20 PExplode
    The other 10 points (yes, 99) :
    1 Amplify Damage
    1 Teeth
    1 CE
    1 Gumby
    1 Golem Mast
    1 Skele Mage
    1 Blood Golem
    1 Iron Golem
    1 Summon Resist
    1 Revive

    This setup is considering you want to use IG (Insight, CB or whatever useful stuff) and Revive. If you didn't like them, then you have a few more points to play around with. The problem is that:
    1. your CE needs lots of +skillers
    2. no variety of curses. The heavy losses are life tap, maybe attract, and decrep + LR. Because of this, you NEED wand with both +LR and +Decrep (these are your 2 main curses along with AD)
    3. it's a 99 build. I look at it another way though. Say you max PExplode last. It will be done at 80, and you keep getting a lot stronger until 99 (each skill point toward 99 is still valuable to your necro) rather than other builds who are throwing away skill points to less than equally useful skill. (Such as fishy after maxing RS/SM/CE)
    4. need a lot of consideration. You need Death's Web + Preserved head with both +LR and +Decrep (you can also get +Life Tap since the staffmod tier is close, but good luck finding that), and either CTA or Arm of king leoric or Beast for switch. Trang is good here, if you insist on trang shield, then Venom+Trang setup will need those +LR/+Decrep in your switch (such as CTA + said preserved head). Regular switching is necessary here, which may or may not alleviate fishy's usual complain of nothing to do :crazyeyes:. Bramble/Enigma is the main split here, you need to choose one you like. In this regard, being untwinked is less stressful, since all you need is 1 Skele buffing wand and 1 LR/Decrep wand. The rest of the slots are free for Trangs and such.
    5. Very precise. Misplace 1 point and you need Akara to help you. Also goes down to (very) bare essentials and you can't use your favorite spells (such as maxed DV, or even 1 point in Bone Armor)
  9. zaphodbrx

    zaphodbrx IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    The 99 build does sounds intriguing. But it's more than just a matter of skill points. There's a lot of equipment and tactical considerations which clash if you want summon AND pnova to be effective.. Here's what I can think of.

    >Beast+AoKL switch vs Death's web/White. Beast is amazing for skeletons, plus AokL on switch for raising. Leaves no room for DWeb or white, which are great for poison necros.
    >TO set vs not: The poison bonuses from part set are great for psn necro, not so much for summoners. And really I don't see any point in using TO set for summoner: A much better setup is Shako + Enigma + Arachnid +Homonculus +magefist for those slots, which is what I use on my summoner, except I have 'bone' instead of enigma. TO set messes up fcr breakpoints, and it would be nicer to teleport/CE faster
    >Teleport or not? A poison necro is much less dependent on teleport, though enigma is still very good on psn necro, but many use 'Bramble'.
    >Graverobber GCs vs Fungal GCs: Both summons and psn are very dependent on +skills
    >Level of CE: With psn necro, it's okay to leave CE at 1 hard point due to the masses of +PnB skills from 'white', Fungal GC, etc. Not the case for summoners, which is why most of them max CE.
    >Amplify damage or lower resist?
    >Might merc or defiance merc ( might merc helps summons a lot for summon necros, for psn I prefer defiance to make them tougher punching bags )
    >A lot of problems with skill points, even at level 99. See above post.

    The more I think about it, I am convinced that trying to put the two builds together will be a disaster- and certainly not worth taking a character to 99. There's nothing wrong in having to choose between being a 'mainly poison' dude or a 'mainly summon' dude. Or do what I did and get two necros. One poisonmancer and one summoner.
  10. KiraZ

    KiraZ IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    ^ Agreed. This build is trying to be decent with both worlds, but requires more tact gear-wise and not as optimized as other dual builds (think meteorb). Skiller alone will get your head spinning. But, it's worth trying. Imo, it MAY work only if you do not want Enigma. Thus, no major FCR need and some more breathing room. I figure these could work:

    Death's Web and Trang shield (iff you go vita, not homun's max block)
    On switch : Arm of king leoric and head (+2LR/+2Decrep is OK)
    Shako (who said I can't have pois necro's Shako? :wink:)
    Bramble (if your comfortable with no tele)
    Trang belt (easy CBF here, mana, life)
    Trang gloves (+2 curses and +pois is key here, magefist give +1 CE, useless (here) fcr, mana regen (better killing > use less mana, and ur part-fishy anw)
    2 SoJ (alleviate mana prob from no magefist)
    Mara's
    Marrowwalk (+skele)

    Sprinkled with poison facet to taste :thumbsup:. Ofc, this is tight for MF. Or, screw Trang as said above and theoretical (literally, see below) godly setup of:
    -DW (pois faceted) and Rare head with (wait for this) full socketed pois facet(s), +3 LR, +3 Decrep, +3 PnB skill (pwn Homun, Trang, etc but good luck with this) (*sneak in +3 Pnova*)
    -Switch: Arm of king leoric or White with +3 RS +3 SM (+3 BA while we're at it) (for summon purposes only, IMHO AoKL>White) and (surprise) Rare head with +3 Summon, +3 SM, +3 RS, +Res/+other useful low staffmod (pwns perfect Boneflame/Darkforce/Homun for summon prebuff switch)
    -Bramble
    -Shako (pois faceted)
    -Arachnid
    -Trang gloves (still the best)
    -2 SoJ
    -Mara's
    -Marrowwalk
    -Finishing touch: Beast IG (Bows (Faith) can't be IG-ed) and Pride weapon for Merc

    We have all 3 auras (Might, Concentrate, Fanat), nice +skills (notice I do not use Homun, and stole Shako and Arach from zaphodbrx :whistling:), major +pois dmg, major -pois res, LR & Decrep "free", nice radius CE (there's already a lot of +skills here). But yes, this is way too much for any players, twinked or not.

    We have Beast IG, and Death Web's + AoKL intact.
    Only can be done if OP doesn't want Tele. If not, I rest my case.
    We have innate Lvl 15 CE, more if you have GC skillers. IMO, this is where you can modify the build, more skele dmg (if you want to use lower PNova or are usually busy positioning/doing other things) or less time waiting for wall of minions as long as none died during the runs. For me, it depends on CE. If I feel CE is wide enough, I go for Graverobber. This is also why zaphodbrx said we can't be efficient in both builds. Patient (Superdave's patient) mode: Graverobber GC prebuff when raising minions
    Dang, you got me again. Oh well. IMHO, the choice is either AD or LR for general rolling of mobs (the facets and DW we have excels here for non-LRed mobs), unless the mob is slimy/gooey/some undead/ugly which means AD is better (their PR is likely high).
    Two more strategies:
    1. AD on poison immunes, LR on physical immunes. Yes, you must choose one, so you may see this as an over-investment to a second element. But, the reason fishy slows down on Phys Im is that on best case you have a 80% DR mob. No other items can lower this and your dmg will be cut by 5. LightSorc excels because Griffon/Facets can lower those 80% LR to 40% or less and maintain speed. A 80% (let alone 90% :gasp:) mob will take forever to kill so that PNova can kill much better. PNova also deals decent damage w/o LR provided enough -res is available. We also have 3 major elements here (poison, phys, fire)
    2. (My favorite) Play cowboy and AD the way your wall of minions is moving to, strafe to the sides or jump to the front and LR+Pnova another mob cluster, then wipe both areas with CE. Basically, you fight in 2 fronts. This active strategy is really a change from the passive fishy style. No concern with overlapping curses until you fight act bosses. Here, look up their DR and PR and decide from there, taking into account AD, LR, and -pois gears. If you are going to farm them for 1K+ times, why not do just a little bit of research to make it much more bearable?
    Poison necros generally prefer Defiance for sturdier skeles. However, here we have the setup which grants almost equal +skill to a regular fishy, and remember that fishy can run through the game naked. We have the same RS and SM, so why are our skeles weaker? In fact, our skeles are no longer pnecro's punching bags (since they typically do not max SM) but are closer to fishy's as a major DDer. And fishies use Might, so we will follow suit.

    Yes, the shield and IG part is plain ridiculous. But that is the absolute best. You can use Gumby and use some +1 head or sth, so long as you have at least +1 LR and +1 Decrep

    Edit: Another problem: You NEED GC skillers with resists or you'll die. Horribly (The active style involved far more danger than standing behind 10+ minions, and I've died with said 10+ minions :cry:)


    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  11. Asterism

    Asterism IncGamers Member

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    Re: Summoner hybrid

    Um using full TO set and hes really blasting his way through hell.
    I have 200 stat points saved up and i dont know if i should go for max block
    or just keep pumping vit?

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