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Strategy Discussion

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Death on Dark Wings, Jun 21, 2004. | Replies: 16 | Views: 642

  1. Death on Dark Wings

    Death on Dark Wings IncGamers Member

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    Strategy Discussion

    Help appreciated against:

    1) Elemental druids
    2) Fireball sorceresses
    3) Korean Necromancers with 125%+ fcr and seemingly endless mana (though I am almost certain they're quietly drinking up 16 super mana potions one by one)

    Trap assassins not a problem to me anymore, thankfully. I need advice on taking these out though. Dual Dwarf Stars don't seem to stop the sorceresses. I don't have enough strength to put on Guardian Angel (I'm based on my enigma's strength). Should I pack in more damage? Anyway, please correct my mistakes along the way as I state my strategies:

    1) Elemental druids
    I don't know **** about dealing with these. I just teleport around them out-of-sight to prevent name-locking and teeth till I am certain their summons are almost all out. Then it would be a struggle to keep my mana up as I spam spirits all over the place.

    2) Fireball sorceresses
    I'll put on dual dwarf stars to allow myself to last 1-2 fireballs longer. I'd try to close in on them in name-lock or whenever they stop teleporting and teeth them to death (most sorceresses, based on my experience, don't have enough FHR to survive the 2nd round of teeth onwards in close range). However, I can't seem to do well against korean-style sorceresses who just teleport all over your screen in blunt accuracy (is it just me or do I always teleport straight in their fireballs?). What's worse, if I teleport on them, 75% of the time, their inaccurate fireballs just explode straight in my face.

    3) Korean Necromancers
    It's not every day you get to beat a Korean in PvP :/. I hate it when I try to close in on them as I always do against fireball sorceresses but they just keep running away until my mana runs out. If I try to get too close yet not exactly on them (teleporting on your target seems to be an efficient killing technique against other bone necromancers), I just get slaughtered by lots of bone spirits. I always try to use Teeth + Spear against these but it doesn't seem to help much. I also have some feeling in the back of my mind that they're potting.

    What exactly is wrong with my necromancer?! I'm using Enigma + Shako + FCR necro ammy + Hoto + Homun + Arachnids + Dual Soj + Marrow + Magefists at the 75% cast breakpoint with about 7-8 pnb gcs. I'm not sure if my damage is pretty low (1.3k+ max dmg for teeth, 5.2k-5.5k+ spear and if I'm not wrong [I don't always use spirit, so I don't remember much, 5.9k spirit]), but I can pump my spear up to 5.9k and spirit 6k+ if I put on 10 pnb gcs. I am on max block with around 10+ to base strength and the rest on vitality with none of energy. 912 mana with BO and about 1.9k health. I'm a bone/summon hybrid (as you could guess at my marrowwalk). So anyway, if you spot any mistakes/problems etc. in my build/items/equipment/strategy etc., please kindly raise it. Thanks.

    P.S.: I suspect it's my low mana that's causing the problems, but I'm not certain anyway.
  2. Necrochild313

    Necrochild313 IncGamers Member

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    125% fcr bp is generally what to go for vs. other casters IIRC.
  3. Death on Dark Wings

    Death on Dark Wings IncGamers Member

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    It's hard to get 125% fcr without trading for it with very important stats such as life/mana/dr from shako, teleport/str from enigma, +skill/mana from sojs, regenmana/resistall from homun (mine has a 15res/9str in it), regenmana/increasemaximum from hoto, but I'll bear that in mind. I've found a pretty nice ring for FCR too

    Order Master Ring
    10% fcr
    +13 dex
    +7 resist all
    +3 light radius
    +83 mana
    and some other crappy stats which I couldn't remember.

    What is IIRC (sorry, I'm not too good with abbreviations)?
    All in all, thanks anyway, I'll put more attention towards high FCR.
  4. Necrochild313

    Necrochild313 IncGamers Member

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    IIRC=if i remember correctly

    Why did you put a 15% all res jewel in a homon? Um would've been superior...or pdiamond for that matter. Putting that in your shako might've been better (superior to um), unless you needed the str badly and shealed your shako.

    I'd drop the sojs and use nice fcr, like the one you have. A plain +mana may have a better effect on your nec than an soj mana wise because BO/%increase only effects mana based on your base mana (from energy/levels) or FLAT +mana effects, like on your ring (rules out +mana based on clvl in the equation).

    You should try crafting a nice ammy, they can get up to 15%-20% fcr if you craft one with the "apprentice" mod, and regen mana/+mana to boot. Not to mention the possibility of +2 nec skills, +resists, ect.

    When it comes to a bone nec

    FCR > +skills

    Whats your FHR like?
  5. Pallidum

    Pallidum IncGamers Member

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    Your damage is fine, the biggest problem I see is your cast rate. 75% is gonna lose to 125% 9 out of 10 times. Try to get 125%. 75% is your biggest weakness. As for mana pots, if your opponent is using it, I see no problem wit you using as well.

    As for equipment, I hope you have specific equipment against all builds. My necro has equipment for every effective build out there, but it can generally be broken down in 6 categories.

    Melee equipment (Zons, Barbs, Melee Pallies, Druids, WW Asns)
    General resist (Foh Pallies, Trappers, Poison mancers)
    Fire Sorcs
    Blizzard Sorcs
    Lightning Sorcs
    Bone Necros

    I maintain 56 fhr on at all times, regardless of duel, and switching to 86 fhr if necessary. I also have 125% cast for every duel, no exceptions.

    I think thats the basic req for a good necro, then there's also tactics involved, which I'll get to.

    Also, vitamancers do better against casters, but you probably know that. Since you 3 biggest challenges are casters, I would consider rebuilding your nec, and use better techniques/different equipment against melee opponents.

    Ok now for your questions.

    Wind Druids

    125% cast is necessary here. Also important is fast hit recovery and damage reduce. Secondary considerations are life and skill damage. Optimize them all, and make sacrifices to damage and life if you must. One thing to keep in mind is that you will ALWAYS cast faster than they do, so use that to your advantage. Never stay in one place too long. If they have you namelocked, tele 3-4 screens away and they will lose the namelock. Use spirit when they are far away, and teeth when they get close. You also have to be accurate with your spears. Teeth//Spear are the biggest druid killers, learn to use them to their max potential.

    Fireball Sorcs

    Key here is 125% cast and fire resist. You need over 200 fire resist, and depending on how good you are, alot of life to be effective (hence why I suggested vitamancers). With 200+ fire resist, a dwarf star, and 3k+ life, you should be able to take 5 fireballs from a 20K fireball sorc before you die. For this duel, as with any other sorc duel, good placement of spirits is the key. Try to predict her tele patterns and send spirits to where you think she is going to go.

    Another tactic Ive seen more and more is for the fire sorc to tele directly on top of you and fireball you to death. When that happens, get out fast. You will lose most of the time cause fireballs are devastating and she casts much faster than you can. Fast hit recovery can help, but the best way is to never let that happen. Use teeth when she gets within range, spear her if you have excellent aim, and ALWAYS have spirits chasing her for pressure.

    Bone Necros

    This is my personal favorite duel. Good tactics and quick reflexes are necessary here. Things you should aim for are 125% fast cast (lol, I can not stress enough how important this is), fast hit recovery, and maximum life. Skill damage is a secondary consideration. Most of the time, you will find yourself in a spear v spear situation. This where fast hit recovery and life comes into play. 56 fhr is a must so you won't get stunned in place and die. Fire teeth and spirit as necessary. Since you have low mana, you must make every shot count because you can't afford to spam everywhere. Like the druid duel, you must always be on the move.

    With proper equipment, more practice, and better techniques, you should have very little trouble against these classes. I hope my suggestions have been helpful and wish you good luck. :)
  6. flapserdk

    flapserdk IncGamers Member

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    I have a slvl 91 Boner, and he eat firesorc for breakfeast. I dont use any fire absorb or enigma, but I use BW's instead. Just cast 4-5 BW relative close, and use them as shelter. With 125 % FCR I can make BW faster than the sorc can destroy them. Remember to keep moving around your BW, then stop and fire a couple of spirits, and run again. I only have a lousy damage (spear 2,5 k), but I almost never loose against a Firesorc.

    Trust me, its piece of cake
  7. soulesschild

    soulesschild IncGamers Member

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    Do not generalize that only Koreans (which you shouldn't term it that way either) have 125% Fc, all good necs will have 125, it is the difference between winning more and losing more to other casters and generally overall. Learn to dodge fire sorcs, it's not that hard, once u get 125% faster cast, you'll do alot better you'll find out

    agaisnt elemental druids, the key as everyone has stated already is FHR and faster cast, damage reduce isn't THAT big of an issue because if they hit you, you most likely are screwed anyway if they know what their doing. The whole thing is to play aggressive. Go around them with teeth/spear/spirit and once their minions drop, go for the spear/teeth kill, if they teleport away to resummon, follow and dont let up, only retreat if you are low on health

    other necs, don't BS spam, its boring and makes you just another pubby IBS spamming noob, rather go in for tele locks and spears, go on the offensive. You really shouldn't be having mana problems, i don't ever drink mana pots anymore unless its a lame summoner/hybrid build in which i need to teleport fast and long until their revives die, learn to conserve your mana
  8. Joe_smith

    Joe_smith Banned

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    agreed. the trick to beating wind druid isn't to tele away 5 screens then spam cuz if the druid doens't follow you in a line he'll never get hit. personally i've never lost to a tele away spammer the only necros that can kill me are agressive spear necros. fast spear locks and or strategic spear spam can quickly bring down a druid espeically if he makes a mistake teleling on. it's not that hard to stay on screen and fight a druid since it takes them over 20 frames to tele on u and spam nados so you'll only be taking damage from hurricane and sometimes summons. also when you've killed their summons try n catch up to them and finish them off before they recast their summons this is when they are completely vulnerable agianst u even if they tele on you wihtout minion stack you'll out tank them. oh and sometimes bs lock works and ibs fields but those are mana consuming.

    and mana pots are alright if both sides agree to use them and espeically when you are fighting against multiple opponents or else you'll be forced to run away and regen which is a waste of time.
  9. soulesschild

    soulesschild IncGamers Member

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    hey joe, up for some dueling again now that im back? lol havent seen u around lately
  10. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight IncGamers Member

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    "Korean Necromancers"

    What the...

    If you want this thread to carry on I suggest you find some non-racially-stereotypical terms for Necromancer builds.
  11. TheKbob

    TheKbob IncGamers Member

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    Why not BONERS! :cheesy: ... god...

    Anywho, I'll add to that pile that is GET 125% CAST RATE! The way most of the necro's out there you see doing it, is this:

    Hoto (30%)
    Storm Circlet (USEast Ammy +2 nec/20% cast duped)
    .08 Valk Wing (30% Probable Dupe )
    Trangs Gloves (20%)
    Arachnids (20%)
    Cast Ring (10%)

    130% Right there. That is the "perfect" cast setup. For poorer (compared to that list :cheesy: )

    +2 Nec//20% Cast Rare circlet (20%)
    Necro ammy w/ 10% Cast (10%)
    Wizspike (50%)
    Trangs Gloves (20%)
    Arachnids (20%)
    Cast Ring (10%)

    or Hoto + Another Cast ring.


    125% Necro's are limited on gear.

    ~Kbob
  12. NBAallstar

    NBAallstar Banned

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    Hmm, can someone tell me what "tele-lock" means? :scratch:
  13. Death on Dark Wings

    Death on Dark Wings IncGamers Member

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    Firstly - I know it's kind of stereotypical of me to call bone spirit spammers 'Korean Necromancers' as there ARE other necromancers of other nationalities that do that, but it just appears to be a tendency that I always meet up with Koreans that do that (it's not my fault all the koreans whom I've met so far spam BS), but anyway, I'll just keep away from such statements, DK. Anyway, thanks alot for your opinions. So basically to sum up, this is what I'm supposed to do:

    1) Get 125% fcr
    2) Get 56%+ fhr
    3) Get higher life (can only do this by leveling so far)
    4) Don't give my damage a piece of damnation
    5) Conserve mana

    Another question though, how am I supposed to get 56% fhr? I've only got 20% and that's from my Shaeled Shako. 36% more from? Will appreciate answers, thanks in advance.
  14. Beatboxer

    Beatboxer Member

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    Fhr can come form charms...A rune, can't remember which...

    Have you read souless's guide Dark wings? It's linked in the guide sticky if you haven't.:bow:
  15. Joe_smith

    Joe_smith Banned

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    i'll whisper you when i'm on if you want and come to ch duel games more we need people.
  16. Death on Dark Wings

    Death on Dark Wings IncGamers Member

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    Shael rune -> 20%

    I wished all of my .09 valks were .08 since it'd go up to 50% fhr with a shael
  17. Necrochild313

    Necrochild313 IncGamers Member

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    Most people use FHR skillers to reach it after shealing their shako.

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