Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates

Strafer boss weapon idea?

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by Clervis, Jun 24, 2013. | Replies: 52 | Views: 18684

  1. Clervis

    Clervis IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    467
    My strafer has been having some problems with bosses so I was thinking about possible weapon switches. Has anyone ever tried something like a 6 socket cullossus xbow with 5xBer and an Um. This would give you 100% CB, open wounds, and an attack slow enough to avoid the next delay. If you have 32-49 off weapon IAS, you'll be hitting at 5 frames between your first and second attack. Ridiculously expensive, I know, but it's so crazy it just might work. Thoughts? Alternatives?
  2. zaphodbrx

    zaphodbrx IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,689
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Fleshripper/stormshield is the most recommended option.
    Or you can lower the player setting to 1 and spam 1 pt guided arrow while kiting the boss till it dies.
    Get some crushing blow on your merc.
    Never on any account use strafe vs bosses.
  3. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator; Clan Officer West

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Messages:
    10,213
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    470
    Not quite true and not necessarily an accepted community position. It is quite possible to use strafe on bosses. I have done it countless times. Most times there is another option, like freezing arrow, but it is possible. It takes a while longer but if you want to continue your play style, don't change any skills. Baal's twin can cause some consternation with strafe. TP out of his area, heal up, wait a moment longer. Then go back in, the twin should be gone. Continue.


    To OP, what weapon are you using now? Other gear? Merc type? His weapon?
  4. Noodle

    Noodle <img src="http://forums.diabloii.net/images/pal.gi

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,090
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    168
    Or just slap a Kelpie Snare on the merc, and strafe away at the immobile boss.
  5. Clervis

    Clervis IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    467
    I'm using an upped WWS and my merc has a hone sundan. I was also thinking a hellrack with 2xBer could be a good way to deliver some CB. I don't really want to have a melee switch. I was just thinking of way to get some ranged CB. Is guillames used by many zons?
  6. zaphodbrx

    zaphodbrx IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,689
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Ranged cb is very ineffective.
    Just get a hone sundan on switch and jab them. Or stack cb on merc.
  7. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    9,717
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    218
    Merc with CB, strafe with lacerator on switch (switch wep mid-strafe) so that the amp procs on the boss!

    Hopefully have some CB yourself, as well. Just because CB is less effective on ranged attacks doesn't mean it's useless.
  8. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    10,577
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    347
    20points CS + tstrokes and a shield.
  9. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Strafe's next delay means a single target can only be hit be an arrow every 5 frames, or 5 times per second. Due to the desynch between client and server at the 50 EIAS and 58 EIAS breakpoints for bows, this attack rate can actually be achieved with the following:

    • 50 EIAS and level 8-11 Strafe (4 minimum arrows, but only 3 can hit in just 15 frames)
    • 50 EIAS and level 28-31 Strafe (9 minimum arrows, but only 5 can hit in just 25 frames)
    • 58 EIAS and level 1-3 Strafe (2 minimum arrows can hit in just 10 frames)
    Consult the Amazon Basin Diablo II wiki's Amazon attack rate page for more details. At best, a crossbow can hit with a bolt every 5.2 frames (so a bow is only 4% faster), but this requires 67 EIAS and level 16-19 Strafe (6 minimum bolts, but only 5 are fired in just 26 frames). At best, a Colossus Crossbow with 32-41 IAS averages 6.1 frames per attack (level > 31 Strafe for 10 minimum bolts; a 5 frame bow is 22% faster), while one with 42-47 IAS averages 5.7 frames per attack (level > 31 Strafe for 10 minimum bolts; a 5 frame bow is 14% faster).

    Against a single target, Strafe can hit with an arrow every 5 frames with 50 EIAS and level 8-11 or 28-31 Strafe, while Guided Arrow can hit at most once every 7 frames with 75 EIAS (8 frames with 56 EIAS). Quoting from one of my posts from the Crushing Blow and Strafe topic in the Amazon Basin's Bowazon Room:

    Since Crushing Blow damage is reduced to 1/2 when applied by a ranged attack it would be preferable for it to be applied by a melee attack or mercenary (assuming equivalent percentage chances, and attacks averaging less than 10 frames).
  10. Erfel

    Erfel IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Wrath runeword

    +375% damage against demons
    30% chance to cast decripify
    20% crushing blow

    Any boss with decripify is useless... especially baal, that won't use any of his annoying attacks (not even teleporting). This means +375% damage + -50% physical resistance.



    I would give it a try :)
  11. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Why not just use Guided Arrow?
  12. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    47,522
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    257
    That's a good idea! Never seen anyone use that bow, but I think this would be its ideal application. It really looks custom made for a boss fight. Doesn't have any ias is the real downside though.
  13. Erfel

    Erfel IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    With a faith merc you could easily reach the max breakpoint even without any ias in the weapon, if i remember correctly.

    Still, as you said, this is really meant for boss killing, crap for else :)
  14. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Against a single target Strafe can attack every 5 frames on average, while Guided Arrow can only attack every 7 frames. This means Strafe can apply Crushing Blow and other such modifiers faster than GA when it has > 71% chance to hit. If 95% chance to hit can be achieved, it's 33% faster ( (100 * 7 / (5/0.95) ) - 100).

    Allowing for the 3/4 attack damage modifier, at maximum attack rate Strafe's weapon damage per second with 95% chance to hit is only slightly less than that of 7 frame GA, and with > 83% chance to hit it can be higher than 8 frame GA. See my previous post for the detail of all of the above.

    Since GA is a prerequisite for Strafe, there's no reason why it can't be used if the conditions for its maximum attack rate cannot be met, or when a single target doesn't present itself (the Ancients, or Baal summoning his clone and Festering Appendages).

    This is true for the 38 EIAS breakpoint and a -10 weapon speed bow, but maximum attack rate against a single target requires at least 50 EIAS and level 8-11 or 28-31 Strafe (or 58 EIAS with level 1-3 Strafe).
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013
  15. KremBanan

    KremBanan IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    7,569
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    350
    Ber in your Wf + Gores and Amp from Atma amulet = gg
  16. BKC

    BKC IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    quoted for truth... and a forti armor + faith merc helps here :)
  17. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    So if I don't have a lot of sources of Crushing Blow, it seems like I would kill faster with my 7-frame Guided Arrow than with Strafe against a lone boss, even if I have a good chance to hit and even if there aren't other targets to potentially cut the number of Strafe hits to the boss.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013
  18. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    It depends on whether or not you focus on Strafe. Strafe's maximum attack rate against less than 10 targets requires just 50-57 EIAS and level 28-31 Strafe for 9 minimum arrows. 56-57 EIAS only results in 8 frame Guided Arrow, so Strafe attacks faster with > 62% chance to hit and applies more attack damage per second with > 83% chance to hit; 50-55 EIAS only results in 9 frame GA, so Strafe attacks faster with > 55% chance to hit and applies more DPS with > 74% chance to hit.

    The maximum attack rate of GA (and Multiple Shot) requires 75 EIAS, which means that unless you switch weapons you can only achieve Strafe's maximum attack rate against 10 targets, requiring > 57 EIAS and level > 31 Strafe for 10 minimum arrows and averaging 5.2 frames per attack against a single target. While Strafe still attacks faster with > 74% chance to hit, it can never apply more DPS than 7 frame GA (even with 95% chance to hit, GA would apply ~4.3% more).

    Level > 31 Strafe with > 57 EIAS averages 3.25 frames per attack against 2-10 targets, and 5.2 frames per attack against a single target: this means level 28-31 with 50-57 EIAS is 4% faster against less than 10 targets, while level > 31 with > 57 EIAS is ~3.8% faster against 10 targets (3.25 vs 3.375 or 27/8 frames per attack). So there isn't a great deal in it if you want to focus more on GA and MS, but bear in mind that it requires 17-19 EIAS more to reduce their attack length from 8 to 7 frames; even with a -10 weapon speed bow, in the absence of Fanaticism this is 62-67 IAS more (142 IAS vs 75 IAS for 56 EIAS or 80 IAS for 58 EIAS). While this results in ~14.3% increase in attack rate and thus DPS, attack damage and chance to hit also affect DPS so it's possible you might make sacrifices to achieve maximum attack rate that actually decrease DPS overall.

    Of course, this applies to Strafe too since achieving its maximum attack rate can require +8-12 skill bonuses on top of a 20 point investment (although +8-12 Strafe is also +40-60% Damage).
  19. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    It's been a while since I considered this, but it seems that I'm equipping a lot of extra IAS in order to reach the 7-frame GA (I have a Faith GMB), and while I might be doing more DPS against bosses with GA than with Strafe using my current gear, I could give up the 7-frame GA and equip more damaging gear, potentially giving Strafe more damage output against a single target. Guess I'll have to reevaluate how much I value the 7-frame GA.
  20. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,942
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    bowazons are just weak against bosses, no real way around it. get charged strike and go hybrid if you want an actual solution.

Share This Page