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Steelrends Vs Draculs anyone?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by panos_gr, Oct 23, 2004. | Replies: 41 | Views: 1701

  1. panos_gr

    panos_gr IncGamers Member

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    Steelrends Vs Draculs anyone?

    hi again^^ i was wondering if theres a post or something with a detailed test
    on draculs vs steelrend for bvb mostly. If not wou are welcome to do one(rikstaker?:p) and im avalable to help on europe ladder (have steelre/dracul/botd for test) almost anytime^
  2. FlamingTurd

    FlamingTurd Banned

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    Most bvb are WW, and since life-tap dont trigger with WW, there goes one of the biggest reason in using dracs. Some may argue that the drac's 25% OW is good, but IMO up to 60% ED and far superior defense on the rends makes Steelrends the top choice.
  3. mstrnicegui

    mstrnicegui IncGamers Member

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    if you're building an all-out dmg barb, 'rends are a better choice, but if you're going for a more well-rounded barb, drac's are by far a better choice. The 25% ow added in with the rest of your gear will trigger a decent amount, along with the decent ds% you should have.
  4. panos_gr

    panos_gr IncGamers Member

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    whats the difference of all out dmg barb between well rounded when walking about bvb?:?
  5. Herald of Doom

    Herald of Doom IncGamers Member

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    I would take a good draculs anyday. 15str isn't 20, but it's close enough, and the 60%ed is very nice but I'd rather have more OW. OW at lvl 90 or higher is a serious killer, especially in BvB where you can expect to miss a lot.

    PS: I haven't tested a 60/20 steelrend yet, only my own very crappy 37/17 and a 54/18 from a friend.

    HoD
  6. Dahmer

    Dahmer IncGamers Member

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    i got 5x/15+ steels on both my barbs & for bvb nothing really beats those, for bvb u need pure dmg/cb/ds, not ow
    if u plan to fight more than just barbs i'd go for draculs, along with gores u get a decent amount of ow :D
  7. Mehatesmaphack

    Mehatesmaphack Banned

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    you are wrong the math is simple. what's good damage for 1 hand ww? about 6k? after pvp penalty and dr it's only 500 damage.(not counting deadly strike.) while ow alone does 500+ at lvl 90+.
  8. Dahmer

    Dahmer IncGamers Member

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    dont forget extra 10% cb on steels :p & i kinda dont need draculs to get enough dmg from ow, gores is enough for me
  9. Mehatesmaphack

    Mehatesmaphack Banned

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    cb only takes off 1/20 of other players' life. so assuming your opponent has 8k life it will still only have a 10% chance of taking off 400 of their life which converts to 40 extra damage. and ow resets itself every hit so if you get multiple hits per ww you'll want as much ow as possible for it drain their life like crazy.
  10. Dahmer

    Dahmer IncGamers Member

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    what about the 13 life replenish from dungo's & 6 life repl per angelic ring & maybe some other items?

    u wouldnt happen to have a site with exact stats for life lost with ow & life gained with life replenish?
  11. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    Well,I'll be off bnet until I finish the guide...which is when..I have no clue.. :scratch:

    Dracs have the upperhand in bvb.OW is a potent damage dealer in bvb,no doubt about that,unlike physical damage,which rend deals in,ow isnt cut by damage reduction & is only reduced by 1/4th in pvp compared to the 1/6th standard.

    On a paper comparison-
    avg bvb build:

    375% botd
    level 26 ww
    level 24 mastery
    Total ed from skill & 40 ed jewel in arreats(333)
    230 strength
    Lets assume a 117 to max from charms.

    With perfect rends - 333+60=393% ed:

    the damage is:1236-4483 -avg:2859- after pvp reduction:477- with max pdr:238

    With draculs:333% ed (strength remains same,the excess on rends is assumed to be traded for vit)

    the damage is:1134-4111 - avg:2622-after pvp reduction:437-with max pdr:219

    OW damage after 1/4th pvp reduction at Clvl 90:
    66.6 per sec over 8 seconds for a total of 533 damage.


    So the end equation is:

    STEELRENDS:

    5 more strength=>vitality=~45 life after bo.
    19 more damage than dracs setup.
    ~600 more final defense than dracs after shout/ironskin.

    note:the ed variance of 30-60% is huge,thats an outside factor which need to be taken into account as well.


    DRACULS:

    25% more chance of triggering ow..i.e 66.7 damage per sec or 533 damage over 8 seconds..
    -----
    ow without dracs on a botd bvb setup would be 43%(duress33,gores10) with dracs it is 68%.

    When we base our comparisons on pure ow bvb setups:fury/beast/kingslayer,dracs automatically become even more superior,due to the lower weapon damage of these weapons,which make the ed% of rends even less effective.

    Moreover dracs becomes somewhat obligatory for attaining the lethal ~100% ow rate(with gores:fury gets there without duress,kingslayer gets there with duress,beast attains 93% with duress,which is enough since fana more than makes up for the 7% deficiency)

    Rik :strong:
  12. mstrnicegui

    mstrnicegui IncGamers Member

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    replenish life counts refilling a barb's life bulb in the minutes, but ow counts removing a barb's life in seconds. Unlike cb, ow is unresistable.

    Formula for replenish life: (25 * (+Replenish life)) / 256 = Life Per Second

    the 19 replenish life from dungos and angelic is 1.9 life replenished/sec. That's 35 minutes to refill a 4k life barb's bulb.
  13. panos_gr

    panos_gr IncGamers Member

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    NICE thx all:) and always loved your numbers rikstaker^^ Its just that i read in euro.pvp forums almost all talking in favor of steelrend and that was contrary to what i believed.Anyway now im sure:) see ya....till my next question^^
  14. mcm

    mcm Banned

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    5 more str from Steelrends DOES NOT equate to 45 more life, in particular because of the high strength requirement of steelrends making it most likely to be the LAST item you equip (order wise.) This means you aren't saving any stats from it. Dracul's OTOH are 50 str req, so they save you 15 str.

    OW is still underrated. At level 90 OW is worth 6200 listed physical damage against a 50% PDR opponent. That's significant. In BVB you're rarely hitting each other due to defense/block, so the 8 second duration pans out nicely.
    In BVC versus decent opponents, there is going to be lengthy down time between WW hits, again the duration does not hinder anything.
  15. insane_knights

    insane_knights IncGamers Member

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    Dracs all the way. Ow is 2 good to pass up. Considering bvb duels take like 20 minutes and most of the time is waiting for the other barb to hit you so your mana goes back up :grrr: . a steel rend barb vs a steal rend barb will probably take like 1 hour unless they use mana pots or conc/serk.
  16. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    @panos:I hope u concluded the right thing..dracs>rends.For clarification:I stated the 5 strength,19 damage & 600 defense under rends for the sake of completion,one can judge that the numbers are insignificant.

    OW is just great for bvb,caz you dont hit so often there, so a timed damage like ow is well suited for the conditions,it cant be reduced like physical damage & it is cut only by 1/4th ,having as high a percentage as possible ups your chances in duels.

    @mcm:Check back ^^,I used 230 strength in those calculations for both setups.Thats not rend requirement+ strength.Using rend's strength for both setups is detrimental for a fair comparison.I had to factor in the probability of wearing something like carapace,so rends is not necesserily the last item you equip,it is likely as you said,but not always true,as bvbers also use carapace.I had to take that into account for a broader comparison.I mentioned duress later on,only to depict the ow possibility of 43% on botd builds without dracs & 68% with dracs.

    Like I said above,steel rend numbers/stats (including strength) were for the sake of completion,in conclusion anyone can say-dracs blow rends out of the water as all the numbers on rends, 60% ed in particular,when processed turn out to be damp squibs.

    Anyway,Pay attention next time & don't bother the mighty Rik for petty clarifications.

    Rik :strong:
  17. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint IncGamers Member

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    What a pathetic statement.

    By using 230 str for the comparison you have introduced a 2 main flaws.
    1. eth carapace is used - normal carapace isn't - str req 220 not 230.
    2. eth carapace is not the only armor to be used and is not the most common thus a bad example.
    No other reasonable armor will require that str thus mcms statement about rends str not equalling vit is correct.
    It is however clear that dracs is better than rendsfor a low frequency striking duel.
  18. Dahmer

    Dahmer IncGamers Member

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    mmm you're all calcuating ow dmg like you got 100% ow, not that great imo (xcept for rikstaker :p)
    lets say u got a barb with gores as only item with ow/cb
    add draculs to that & u got 35% chance of ow
    but just imagine yourself getting badluck & never getting ow, then u only got the dmg from the str on draculs

    when adding steelrends to that u allways get higher dmg & got total of 25% crushing blow + you also got 10% ow from gores & if you're lucky u get ow & the extra dmg from steelrends

    it really isnt simple math to figure out what the best gloves are, more like statistics to me & for some lucky ppl (like me) the gores are more than enough to get ow your target

    i also agree with ttp, eth carapace is really not the only option

    so imho only way that draculs are better is when u got 0% ow from equip or if you reach +80% ow with them
  19. luis19

    luis19 IncGamers Member

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    BvB duels are long enough that that 25% more OW makes a huge difference. Especially when you are rarely hitting each other, if you have a better chance for OW it usually decides the winner given both have similar life/d/ar, highend gear and know what to do.
  20. panos_gr

    panos_gr IncGamers Member

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    @rikstaker MM maybe Dahmer has a point here? I mean the extra given by dracul should be divided by 4..as they themselves(outside ow shouldnt matter imo as we examining just draculs vs rend...not ow vs ed) just give 1/4 of ow striking in.what you think?

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