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Singling Community Feedback

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by fearedbliss, Sep 18, 2013. | Replies: 17 | Views: 2277

  1. fearedbliss

    fearedbliss IncGamers Member

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    Hello everyone,

    First I want to start by saying that Thyiad said it was ok for me to open up this topic for discussion. I'm not asking for mod support or anything like that, I just want the SPFs opinion about this.

    So I basically took the RWM and Modified dll and I bundled it all up in a zip file and included the Runes.txt inside the Patch_D2.mpq so that it would be easier for people to install. This means that people won't have to be messing around with -direct -txt parameters in order to play the game. I also added a nice and simple text to the Title Screen so that the person would know whether or not they are using Vanilla D2 or Vanilla D2 + RWM + Modified.dll. I've made a short/quick video guide on how to install "Singling": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LyhJY_cKrM&feature=youtu.be

    Another thing I wanted to ask the community is how would the community feel if the Experience ratios for 1.13d were made as they were in pre-1.10? Everyone already knows that starting from 1.10, the experience you get from level 70 on diminishes which means a person would need a lot of time investment in order for them to reach level 99. Most of the time this kills the "leveling endgame" for a lot of people since most people don't have that amount of time and thus stop leveling their characters around mid-to-high 80s.

    Overall, Singling just provides an alternate/easier way to install the RWM/Modified dll rather than having to mess around with parameters.

    - jon
  2. Dazliare

    Dazliare IncGamers Member

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    On your second thought - are you trying to make a mod that changes experience gain? I think most people around here wouldn't want that. Most builds top out in the high 80s, which isn't a huge commitment. Extra levels at that point just gives some more hp and maybe a bit more damage, but they're just gravy points at that point. In that regard, going for 99 is about the experience of taking one (or 3 for Cyrax) character to the next level, to the ultimate level persay. I don't think making that journey easier really adds anything. If someone doesn't want to put in the effort for 99, then they don't have to, and their character really won't suffer because of it. Leave 99 to the highly dedicated :)
  3. fearedbliss

    fearedbliss IncGamers Member

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    Haha alright. Singling 1.0.0 actually had the 1.09 style Experience table, but since I wanted it to be an easier way for the SPF community to get their FAM stuff set up, I removed it since I knew that most people would be against that addition. Thus Singling 1.0.1.

    The original video I posted earlier today regarding Singling 1.0.0 can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AepCzUg9RhU

    Of course the experience sections of that video are no longer valid.
  4. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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    Yea, no interest in the experience thing here either.

    I do like the other mod bundle though, should save people a lot of headache I think.
  5. fearedbliss

    fearedbliss IncGamers Member

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    Cool, thanks for the feedback.

    So you are fine with the way 1.0.1 is which is just Ladder Runewords and the Modified dll?

    The bundle will stay the way it is then, no Experience stuff.
  6. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    Sounds good to me
  7. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    Two things:

    Maybe check out your definitions:

    "Vanilla D2 or Vanilla D2 + RWM + Modified.dll."
    Vanilla D2 is a term that means unmodified. Vanilla D2 is a brand new install of D2, official patch updates only, and without any mods.
    Vanilla D2 + RWM + Modified.dll is a clean install of D2, without mods, with RWM mod and Modified.dll editted into the Patch_D2 file, but still clean and official.

    This is less of a topic nowadays, however, some still probably play "Vanilla D2," without the use of mods. To a newcomer wishing to trade, and to see "Vanilla + mods," they may consider themselves vanilla, and taint a Vanilla players stashes.

    As said, the trade pool and player base is much more diminished nowadays, but adding incorrect or confusing definitions is not good, even if the trade pools were completely dead. In relation to this, calling your mod: "Vanilla Frosting," can easily be confusing.

    In relation to bundling the mods together in one Patch_D2.mpq, I like the idea, but you'll have to come up with an option to replace the modified one with the non-modified one at any point. Most people here simply use different shortcuts - one that activates the text files, and one that runs clean. The challenge being with your modified Patch_D2 file is that you cannot run separate shortcuts; you run D2, and enter B.net, and you'll probably get banned at some point. You would have to have a completely new install, instead of just having a separate shortcut.

    I like the idea of having it simplified for newcomers, so good luck with it.
  8. EmperorMoo

    EmperorMoo IncGamers Member

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    I like it and would definitely use it, assuming ofc it becomes forum-accepted. It particularly suits me as I've never bothered to get the modified .dll running, and I may do some self-mp at some point.

    Nice to see people still developing stuff like this for a 12(?) year old game, too.
  9. fearedbliss

    fearedbliss IncGamers Member

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    Drystan:

    Thanks for the input although you are confusing the wording that I've used.

    Yes you are right, that is the definition of Vanilla, however when I say Vanilla D2 + <something else>, I mean that the mod is created from a clean base and not from an existing mod. Thus "Clean Foundation" + Addition 1 + Addition 2 = Singling. The same applies for the name "Vanilla Frosting", it means that you are taking the "Vanilla" game, and adding a few changes to it (Frosting), thus "Vanilla Frosting". I see what you are trying to say but it is a different way of reading something. It's like if I said 1 + 2 + 3, and then you say "How can 1 be 1 if you are also adding 2 and 3?", which it isn't because the end result is 6 (Singling, Vanilla Frosting). :).

    As for the modified dll, I will have to disagree with you on that. The entire point of using the modified dll in the first place is to make it simple. Having to deal with "more parameters/shortcuts" is against my philosophy. I want it to be an easy drag/drop and play. Anytime a person changes anything in D2 there is a chance of you getting banned whether it is changing a .txt file to enable runewords or modifying the dll or running a glide wrapper. The best thing a person can do in my opinion is just to run two different folders, one with whatever you want, and another with a clean D2. That is the best way a person can guarantee not getting banned.

    EmperorMoo:

    Awesome! Hopefully it does.
  10. maxicek

    maxicek IncGamers Member

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    Mac RWM was always packaged as there is no direct -txt possible, so I don't really see it as an issue if people want to use it.
    I don't think the current system is that difficult though, but appreciate there is an thread of evidence that says otherwise.
  11. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    The problem is primarily for newcomes. Hypothetical to follow:

    I join the forum, find this "Vanilla + Singling" and start playing. I then enter the trading forum, and find other players offering "Vanilla" items. Trade goes ahead, as both are using the term "Vanilla," and one persons items get tainted.
    As said, with a reduced trading population, it's not so bad, but this forum has always tried very hard to keep tags, status's and mods to a minimal, and clear and concise definitions.

    All I'm saying is that for a new player, skimming rules (not that this ever happens here!), and who wants to jump in to trading, you offer some very easy ways for peoples' stashes to become tainted. Regardless of what you claim, "Vanilla + Mod" would be FAM (Forum Accepted Mod,) and NOT 'Vanilla,' and NOT 'Vanilla + anything'. Keeping the term Vanilla in something that is not Vanilla can lead to confusion among new players, who may or may not read stickied threads.
    Please, clear up your definitions to reduce this potential for error. The forum has always strived to keep mods to a minimum to avoid tainting others' stashes, while still allowing a solid quality and quantity in the trade pool with minimal fragmentation.

    So, how many mods do you have, and how many files have you created from original files and pre-modded files? In reading this comment, it appears as if you are saying you have used the original file for adding mods, and used prior-modded files to change, develop and add mods.
    I know you've already PM'd Thyiad, but I believe there are questions and challenges still left blindingly obvious and uncorrected.

    I agree with this to a point, and do believe that it could be simplified in the manner you are pushing for. Again, to help newcomers (there's always some challenges - not everyone is an advanced computer user, and knows about shortcuts and command lines, so simplification is always welcome.) That's why I said there had to be an option to change the modded file with a clean, original/Blizzard file.

    Hypothetical:
    I want to enter B.net, but I have your .mpq with the .dll data injected into it. I then have to copy and paste a clean/original file from windows explorer before launching the game, or else get banned from the servers. I then want to go back to running a few mules to the HellForge in Single Player. I have to, again, copy and paste the modified file over the clean one.
    To work around this, you (you seem to have programing experience) could have a popup that automatically replaces one file with another, depending on whether you want a clean file for B.net, or modded file for multi-instance.dll. (This does enter mod-making topic, but I made similar, basic programs (replace one file with another, and make a backup of both files) back in high school, so I'm sure such a thing wouldn't be hard to do for an experienced modder. I also made a .bat file just to copy, zip and backup my save files whenever I wanted to, so that itself should be fairly straight forward.)

    Instead, what I currently do is have mine set up with one install to have two shortcuts. For me, simple because I know a little about those command lines, but for a newcomer, or new computer user, it can be challenging.
  12. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Think we've got a tad off topic from the initial question. The initial question was about the experience part. :)

    I can understand what fb is saying when he describes Singling as Vanilla+RWM+modified.dll; he's trying to indicate that it doesn't have anything extra (EG modified stashes etc).

    Once we're happy with the actual content of the mod, we can work on definitions for wider use.

    Adding another split to the trade forum is not something I'd like to see, although it's been quite clear that there is still a very strong preference for keeping FAM and Vanilla as separate entities.

    If we're happy with the content of Singling, then I'd be tempted just define it as FAM and leave it at that; the same way we do with the Mac version. With a clear warning to people in the download - or on the title screen - "Do not go on Bnet with this". Which is pretty much what is on the current FAM mods in the Stickies. There has to be some personal responsibility.

    I've already mentioned this to fb but one thing that would be great would be a menu like Minecraft where you pick which version you want to play on the title screen, and it pulling up the correct save directories. I've probably taken this a bit too far mod support with that comment but it'd be interesting to see how many people would find something like that useful. Maybe I'm just rubbish at fiddling with version switchers. :D
  13. Corrupted

    Corrupted IncGamers Member

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    Something like this does actually exist. (Unfortunately) for the SPF its bundled with <something else> (you can disable it with one mouse click though.)
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  14. fearedbliss

    fearedbliss IncGamers Member

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    @ Drystan
    It's not "Vanilla + Singling", It's "Vanilla + RWM + Modified.dll = Singling". Singling = RWM + Modified.dll bundled up. As I said before, I've added "Vanilla D2" so people know that it was bundled up with a fresh/clean D2. Not a pre-existing mod.

    That is exactly why I stated that Singling = Vanilla D2 + RWM + Modified.dll. This equation means that Singling was made from _all original_ blizzard files. No other files. This question clearly hits the nail right on the head on why I added that equation to the README. I want people to know that it was made from a clean foundation and no other pre-existing, modified files.

    I don't know if you watched the video I made, but in the Singling 1.0.1 install guide I showed people how to install Singling. There were two methods I showed them, one is to just go ahead and replace the files, the second way was for them to rename to dll and the patch. It's only two files so it's viable, but still, a version switcher as Thyiad stated would be the solution.

    @ Thyiad

    Exactly :)!

    I agree with you. I also wouldn't want to split the FAM community and the people using Singling. Singling is FAM. It was mean't to just bundle up the FAM communities stuff into a simple, easy to install thing. No reason to split the community if 1 = 1 :). I only named it Singling to give it a cool sounding name, and of course to add a distinction at the Title Screen. Currently players who use FAM don't know if they are using -direct -txt or some other thing other than by memory or actually checking the shortcut properties. With the title screen label, they know immediately right when they open up d2.

    If acceptance of Singling means that FAM people would be split yet again, I would prefer for Singling not to be accepted and people not to use it. No point if people are not playing together.

    I don't think this is hard at all and I've actually written some code related to another application to this. I think the best thing I could do would be to program it either in Java or Python since those two languages can run on a variety of platforms. I'll probably do this at some point, but that's a conversation for another thread, I'll pm you if anything haha :).

    - jon
  15. jeffy

    jeffy IncGamers Member

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    Neat bundle.
  16. EmperorMoo

    EmperorMoo IncGamers Member

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    Firstly, I need to mention that I'm entirely self-found, and am never/have never going to multiplay: glorious isolation ftw!

    I downloaded it and used it last night. Worked like a charm, so I'm going to be using this from now on. @fb: If I have any bugs/issues, I'll let you know.

    Moving 2x files into your D2 root folder and renaming the originals in case you want to remove is child's play, and should remove all questions about how to set up rwm and the .dlls.

    I would definitely recommend acceptance of this bundle by the spf.
  17. fearedbliss

    fearedbliss IncGamers Member

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    I'm glad it was able to help you EmperorMoo. As far as bugs are concerned, I'll be here, but I doubt you will have any bugs lol. I mean it's only two things so the area for bugs is extremely small. If the runewords are being created successfully, and multiple instances work, than that's it, no bugs (Things that I extensively tested before releasing to the public) :D.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  18. naranjadita

    naranjadita IncGamers Member

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    Add this and Singling is good to go, IMO.
    I, for example, like to drop onto battle.net from time to time, and I don't want to get banned because of modified library. And constant replacing and renaming files is just meh.
    Don't see a reason for singling to break up FAM divison in two.
    But if it does - not a big deal. I mean, come on. There are HC and SC, Vanilla and FAM, 1.06, 1.07, 1.08, 1.09 and even some 1.11 players (1.13 ofc being the majority), there are those who accept atma bug and those who don't, those who accept time travels and those who don't. There is already a bazillion divisions.

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