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Should Rumsfeld resign?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by llad12, May 8, 2004. | Replies: 101 | Views: 3378

?

pick.

  1. in person

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  2. over the phone

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  3. mail

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  4. email/IM

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  5. through a mutual friend

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  6. other (specify)

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  7. stalking will always remain the ideal choice!

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  8. doesn't matter, i get the boobies anyway

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  9. they all fail anyway, and durf is to blame!

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Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    Should Rumsfeld resign?

    Following the recent release of photos of Iraqi prisoner abuse, Donald Rumsfeld, the Sec. of Defense, has come under considerable pressure. Many Democratic congressman and several major newspapers have called for his resignation.

    An example:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/07/opinion/07FRI1.html?pagewanted=print&position=

    The Bush administration leaked to the press that Rumsfeld receive a tongue-lashing from President Bush for not keeping him up to date on this scandal. Bush, however, stated later that Rumsfeld was doing a good job as Sec. of Defense and indicated that he was important member of his cabinet.

    Several Republican congressmen and conservative newspapers have come to Rumsfeld's defense.

    In today's congressional hearing, Rumsfeld apologized to the public for the prisoner abuse and indicated that he accepted full responsibility for this scandal.

    What do you think and why? Should he resign or should he stay? What do you think the consequences of keeping him on the staff or firing him would be to the Middle East, Iraq, and the upcoming presidental election?
  2. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    Oh, aren't you a tricky one, Llad. ;)

    I don't think Rummy should resign, but I think he'll be the sacrificial lamb in this case. That is to say, he's going to take one for the team. I wonder what color his parachute will be? He'll go down in less than 2 weeks. If I'm wrong, I'll eat a sandwich.

    Anyone who served on Gerry Ford's staff has no business being in the U.S. government in the new millenium. And what's the deal with the recycling of old dudes in Republican administrations? I'm cool with recycling, but more of the aluminium can and glass bottle type rather than white dudes.
  3. Yaboosh

    Yaboosh IncGamers Member

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    I got your word on that one right???? This will remain in my sig for 2 weeks, and upon that time, if you were wrong, you WILL eat a sandwich. You better pick your words better in the future, mac, you got yourself in deep this time.
  4. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    Rummy was the darling of the press corpse ( :surprise: ) when we were winning - this is just DC business as usual. Full of sound & fury, signifying nothing. He also is one of the most forward-looking types we've had as SecDef in some time - a great indicator was how much crap he was taking in attempting to shake up the green-suited bureaucrats before 9/11.

    Looks like they had the last laugh. I notice none of the tinfoil hatters are wondering if this isn't a plot within the Pentagon to discredit the Executive Branch...
  5. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    You're dreaming if you think he'll resign. The only thing it'd do is give the Democrats a victory. And you know that's not going to happen, not with the upcoming election.

    Plus, he's not the one that caused this. From what I've been seeing reported by both sides, this is the work of the CIA. They're the ones that were instrumental in instigating the torture. Instead of Sec. Rumsfeld, the director of the CIA (Christians In Action :lol:) needs to be the one on the hot seat.

    Funny you mention that. The Democrats have been doing much the same thing in the past couple of years. Walter Mondale running for office? Sen. "Uncle Keg" Kennedy leading the charge?
    Both sides need to put out fresh new faces. I kinda like Sen. Crapo of Idaho. Relatively new guy with a goofy name, it's perfect!
  6. Yaboosh

    Yaboosh IncGamers Member

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    Leno, Conan and crew are probably salivating watching his career, hoping for him to jump more into the public eye.
  7. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    It doesn't matter. Our only hope of salvaging some scraps of our prestige and standing with the world is to eject Bush from office. Pushing Rumsfeld out of office would be a meaningless gesture.
  8. Suicidal Zebra

    Suicidal Zebra IncGamers Member

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    I could care less, which probably means that I think that he should not be kicked out for this incident, as he was not directly responsible. Far better to repremand/out officers in command of what was going on.

    However, I would not cry a river if he did resign.
  9. eddy

    eddy Banned

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    if he takes bush with him im alll for it.
  10. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    I will totally give him that. I reckon his ideas will be used in the next illegal invasion. OK, sorry. But, I am about most of the Rummy plans; seriously. I reckon that in 30 years we'll be using his ideas.


    Well, Smeg, as you don't understand (per usual), Paul Wellstone died in a plane crash. There is a significant difference between selecting a candidate out of tragedy and selecting a candidate because he's been loyal to the party for 20+ years.

    Get real and get a clue. Leave intelligent debate to jmerv; please.


    Edit: Sen. Crapo?! Man, that guy has huge metal cajones! Go Crapo!!!one1!!
  11. tydon

    tydon IncGamers Member

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    I think he should stay in office until Bush wins/loses the election.

    Ya I dont think he has done a good job, but it would make other countries think anything he did was wrong if he resigned IMO, which isnt good......

    If Bush is elected again, I think he should get a new guy though.
  12. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    If we had any sense, we would impeach Bush immediately. No, not for Abu Ghraib, but for the whole thing. With Abu Ghraib, we've lost the last of our excuses for invading a country without provocation. Abu Ghraib is just the straw that broke the camel's back, but Bush has totally destroyed our credibility with the international community. We still haven't entirely recovered from the loss of face we took in Vietnam, and we're going to be a long time living this one down.

    To talk about forcing the resignation of a mere secretary after this fiasco is laughable.

    Heaven forbid someone should think we've done something wrong!

    Like break lots of treaties.

    Like heap ridicule on most of our traditional allies.

    Like start an unprovoked war under false pretenses.

    Like giving up the pretense of being an unbiased broker of peace in Israel.

    Like killing thousands of Iraqi civilians... on false pretenses.

    Like refusing to follow Geneva conventions in Gitmo.

    Like rounding up Iraqi civilians at random (as many as 60%) without telling them what they're charged with. Without notifying their relatives. Oh yeah, and torturing them.

    If Bush is elected again, it doesn't matter what we do.
  13. Bakerking31

    Bakerking31 IncGamers Member

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    agree 100% :drink:
  14. zoop

    zoop IncGamers Member

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    There are lines that people of good conscience don't cross. Look behind you...yeah, THAT line.
  15. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

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    I didn't vote, because I'm split in my opinion.

    On one hand, he really mangled the whole post-war Iraq, thing. But on the other hand, replacing key members of the government while we're in post-war Iraq would only cause chaos in our military.

    (And no, the prison abuse scandal doesn't factor into this at all.)

    So I guess I'd say:
    Does he deserve to resign/be fired? Yes.
    Should he resign/be fired? No.

    Hope that makes sense.
  16. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    The next few days/weeks should prove very interesting. I have little doubt that many of the other photos and/or videos of the torture that Rumsfeld mentioned will be released in the press. These items, together with any other information that may be subsequently revealed about the treatment of prisoners, could be incredibly devastating in their effect on the public's perception, morale, and support for this occupation.

    How this scenario plays out will probably decide if Rumsfeld stays or goes. If public clamor grows deafening ... if violence in Iraq increases substantially ... if Bush's position in the polls drops significantly ... watch for Rumy to fall on his sword and opt for early retirement.

    Although the Bush clan is generally known for rewarding their loyal followers, I wouldn't put it past Dubya to sacrifice Rumsfeld if it would alleviate the pressure of this scandal; help simmer down insurgency and hostility in Iraq, and potentially propel him into the lead in the upcoming election. After all, in Dubya's mind, it is his destiny to save the world from "evil-doers" ... he is on "a Mission from God." Rumsfeld might have to be considered a martyr in this holy crusade.

    Politics is a very dirty business. I have little doubt that these scenarios are already being played out in the mind of Karl Rove and the Bush campaign team.
  17. Sergeant

    Sergeant IncGamers Member

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    I don't think he will resign and I don't think he ought to. He is the secretary of defense, not director of the CIA. The person's responsible for ordering and instigating it are hired "contractors", mercs if you will.

    While there are some soldiers who took part in the abuses I don't think Secretary Rumsfeld ought to be left holding the bag, although he's already accepted full responsibility for it. I think they ought to try, convict and imprison those found to be taking part. Remove those in command over the soldiers and make very clear in english and arabic what the rules are for handling prisoners and their rights.

    You don't shoot a horse because it's got an infected wound. You treat it, bandage it and move on.
  18. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    Isn't it funny how the CIA is at fault for every American shortcoming under Bush's watch? Maybe we should rethink giving the intelligence community a stranglehold on all aspects of our society if that's really the case.
  19. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    so who's in charge of iraq? defense or cia? i think they're going after rummy because he's in charge of the whole thing especially after he pushed the state department out. rummy has complete oversight of iraq including all intelligence services. heck, it was his brainchild to invade iraq in the first place.

    as for his resignation. good luck. it will be a cold place in hell. he's probably the most powerful figure in washington, and that includes bush.
  20. axeil

    axeil IncGamers Member

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    I'm just finding it interesting that while the republicans jumped on Clinton's back and called for impeachement for perjury no one is jumping on Bush's back for violating the Geneva convention and doing other such human rights violations.

    Seems rather hypocritical. Lying under oath only affects those directly involved while randomly capturing innocent civilians and torturing them is far far more pervasive and destructive.

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