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Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Karamo, Apr 27, 2012. | Replies: 150 | Views: 7443

  1. Karamo

    Karamo IncGamers Member

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    Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    I have followed the creation of DIII from afar, I did not want to delve in to every detail prior to the releease - I want the experience to be fresh and overwhelming.

    I did however try the open beta quickly and, like many other, I was ultimately displeased. There have probably been hundreds and hundreds of threads regarding this but I would still like to hear some discussion regarding this.

    In Diablo 3 beta, each level up felt "meh". There was nothing that made you stop and think and care for some direction of your character. You just kept on plowing on...

    The action was indeed there, the smooth flow and fast pace of Diablo 2. No argument.

    But... I just am so perplexed... Let me elaborate;

    Diablo 2 was the first online game... Nay, first action RPG I ever did play. It was a whole new world of everything... Did the options of distributing stat points, choosing skills and such confuse me and in any way make the game deterring?

    No!!! From the moment I started playing it was just mad fun and a BIG part of that fun for me was just that; I created my character in many ways. I did not just choose a template and have it grow depending on presets...

    So, what are Blizzards arguments, really? I have read them and they still makes no sense to me because they are simply not true.

    I guess what I am saying is, that if we're continuously robbed of having to make choices, many of us will play the game through a few times and then quickly get bored... In Diablo 2 there was a world of choices and I still have some I haven't tried and trust me, I'm no casual gamer, I'm one of those "hardcore gamez0rs who once met a cute .jpg but didn't get to second base".

    I am very scared that D3 will lack the customization depth and be a "hack'n'slash"-version of WoW :(

    TL;DR: Generic thread. You've read it before.
  2. snowcatcher

    snowcatcher Banned

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Your words: In Diablo 3 beta, each level up felt "meh". There was nothing that made you stop and think and care for some direction of your character. You just kept on plowing on...

    God damn i am sick and tiered of kids like you, judgin by the beta... each lvl up was meaningless.. derp derp derp..."
    Offc it was meaningless, you can finish the beta with lvl 1 character and kill the sk. It's a nobrainer playthrough, its not like you have to judge weather you need offensive or defensive skill on this and that skill slot. Still dont get it ? Ok let me dumb it down for ya and all the kids that are about to vomit their stupidity over this thread.
    So you play sorceres, and the last 15 mins of finishing normal playthrough you probably got the following spells: electrocute, meteor, arcane orb, blizzard, archon and laser. What is in common for all the 6 spells ? They are all massive aoe damage dealers. Once you get to nightmare you can piss on this BUILD, you will need at least 2 defensive abilities, and 1 cc controll like frost nova or w/e... Stop judging the game from the beta !!!

    It seems it was a wise decision from you to stay out of discussions and judging the game... why not keep it up that way ?
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  3. Karamo

    Karamo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Hmm... You made it pretty clear from your post who is the younger one of us. Until you're ready to sit at the adult table, I will just ignore this rude post.
  4. snowcatcher

    snowcatcher Banned

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Haha, play the game few times and quickly get bored. You mean, finish normal few times and get bored ? Coz with this attitude you wont even get past hell, not to mention inferno...


  5. snowcatcher

    snowcatcher Banned

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Now, you can act all high and mighty, but deep down ur self, you know am right :D

    [​IMG]
    image host


  6. Karamo

    Karamo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    I did not come here for some ego-battle. If you want a win, sure you win. Bam.
  7. snowcatcher

    snowcatcher Banned

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    No srsly dude, i know i was rude and all that. But please understand, this is the 100th post that i've read complaining about the beta, how easy it is, no challenge, meaningless lvling. Seriously, the beta is nothing in gameplay/balance term of what diablo 3 will be on higher difficulties. The only similarities the beta will have with the retail version is the graphics and the environment. After we hit nightmare and above, that is where the challenge/game begins.
    What do you think, why did blizzard spent all that time balancing and polishing the game for ? Diablo starts from nightmare and above, the beta is just the makeup...
  8. JackalYYC

    JackalYYC IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    So...what did you come here for? You acknowledge that this thread has been made countless times. Clearly you've read others like it, and seen the same responses to those same threads.

    Why make another one? It's not new, it's not fresh, it's not constructive.

    Why?


  9. snowcatcher

    snowcatcher Banned

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    I think hes new here, see 10 posts only, that is posts in this thread included. So cut him some slack, but ppl mustn't judge diablo3 from the beta. Maybe that is why blizzard doesn't do open beta tests. It seems many ppl find it difficult to understand that the beta is only here to test game mechanics and have a taste of what the gameplay/flow of the game will look like.


  10. Karamo

    Karamo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    I hear that and of course you are right, but I'm curious if it is as I suspect, that only runes and items will define a character ultimately?

    I mean, I read that runes also had their numbers crunched or some such to even further limit choices with Blizzard defending that change in the usual Blizzard fashion.

    I am not at all doubting the difficulty of the game in the latter stages nor am I trying to say that there is only use for "one button" mashing. My point is this;

    Will our characters be built from a template with our only interference in that being itemization and runes?

    In Diablo 2 there was a lot of choices to be made and you actually made your character your own... I fear this will not be as prominent in Diablo 3. I do hope it will be in the end, but from what I've read about the late game it does not seem that way...
  11. Sofolas

    Sofolas IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    This in contrast to the overwhelming experience of leveling up in D2 where you at each new level got an additional skill-point to stockpile!


  12. JackalYYC

    JackalYYC IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    YES.

    Does that mean there will be less customization?

    NO.

    There are still a lot of choices to be made, if not more. You don't have to follow the herd and do what everyone else is doing because it works. You are free to put the rune combinations and skills that YOU want and that YOU like and that YOU feel are symbiotic.

    Every skill has multiple iterations with the rune choices. If you had to make concrete choices as to what skills you unlock and what runes go with them, we would be seeing posts about being restricted because there's not enough availability. Throw in stat allocation and the game becomes convoluted. Yeah it worked in D2. You also only pumped points into one skill every 6 levels until you unlocked the next one. That to me, is less customization. By the time you finish a Sorc in D2 you may only use 4 skills. See example below:

    Ice orb, Chain Lightning, Teleport, Energy Shield.

    What more did you need in Hell? Static Field? Alright 5 skills.

    Anything else? No, not really.

    D3 opens up the option to change that static skill set into a dynamic one that changes with the winds if you see fit. I know I'll be mixing it up every once in awhile either for situational strategy or just to add some variety to the playstyle.

    In short, the gist I'm getting is that people feel that D2 had more customization. When you really think about it, it DIDN'T. All your choices were a means to an end. No one used Icebolt in Hell, it was all about the direct line to Frozen Orb.


  13. joeb

    joeb Banned

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Dude how is anyone gonna beat inferno....its a fair estimate that our chars will be maxed out by end of second difficulty level. With that said...there is legitimate gripe....every level 60 will have two main skills...and two most powerful runes. Very basic. Not many builds. Why? I just simply think they picked a director that never cleared d2. He probably hate d2 because of all the times he messed a build up. So here we are with d3.Id love for them to allow some customization....maybe 5050....where half of allotment can be the users choice...but. that would take time to figure out. Let's not forget about omitting some items an verbage...blizzards new "our game wont insult you" bs. Sure...there is absolutly legit gripe...people are gonna dump 60 bucks or more. Why was the beta so streamlined...was like walking the mile. That's not diablo. Let's hope the game atleast opens up.

  14. mortalwombat

    mortalwombat IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    In reality you had fewer choices in D2 than you do in D3. You could easily choose all of the skills but in reality using more than 4-5 was never going to happen. Also, a bad choice was permanent and while a lot of people still think that it was great, it really wasn't.
    D3 goes against that and eases the user into the game and allows for choice and mistakes, without you having to start over once you get further in the game. Yes the first hour or so is easy and linear and judging by a lot of the questions during the Open Beta it certainly has to be.
    The amount of skills, runes and passives in D3 gives you a LOT more freedom to design your character and to adapt to playstyles, gear and game content. You can (and likely need to) use all 6 skills in order to be efficient in the later difficulties in D3, whereas in D2 some specs would use only a few. When a bot can run the end content it is not really that diverse and challenging is it?

    I think a lot of the cry outs about changes since D2 are a result of nostalgia and change - people are fundamentally against change. Some might remember the good old days and completely ignore the obvious design flaws in D2. Gaming has progressed since then and D3 will not be D2, but I am not at all afraid that lack of customization will be an issue.


  15. Wildmoon

    Wildmoon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    No matter how I try to compare again and again you still have more choice to make in lvling and more possibility in how you build your character in D3 than D2. I don't know why OP came up with that. -_-" Just look at amount of active skills in D3 and how they scale with weapon which will make almost every skill viable.
  16. xploziv

    xploziv IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    People that think D2 Skill system was great never tryed to make a new viable build. Try making a whole new build for yourself and see the result... I know i have... I used up the respecs from akara pretty quickly and Had to be colecting those items that made you respec all the time (If permanent skills were so great they wouldn't have put that in the game). And before that... What fun is there in rushing chars all the way to Hell? At least now i will be enjoying content and trying my best build lvl after level until i come up with what i prefer...
  17. Wolfpaq777

    Wolfpaq777 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    The way I see it, there were 2 changes made that dumbed down D3. Simplified tooltips and the skill categorization lock.

    Fortunately they can both be undone with a simple settings change.

    Bashiok has said this a million times and I agree with him. Character choices and customization do not have to be permanent to be meaningful.

    Also keep in mind the most important character customization tool, items, are still largely unknown.
  18. beingmused

    beingmused IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    As you said, this has been talked about to death, and I won't rehash general points. But I want to comment on that specific feeling, of not having something to "do" when you level up, because I had the opposite feeling. When I would level in D2, I would do one of two things:
    1. Hoard the point for later (exciting!), or
    2. Put a point in one of the 3 skills I've already predetermined that I'm using. Of the thousands of times I've gotten a skill point, I can only think of a handful when I actually had to think what to do with it - and those times were very early on when I didn't know what I was doing (let's make an Amazon who is really good at multishot, strafe, AND impale - yay!). In reality there was never any choosing involved. There were only a few good skills, and you were just leveling them up. Level 43: My tornado gains 11 points of damage. Yay.

    In D3, by comparison, every time you get a new skill or rune you feel like changing around your build so you can play with it. That's a lot more potential for choice upon every level up. Like when I get the Thunderclap rune, I switch my monk's generator...and since it has a dash on it, I change my dashing strike skill for something different. Nearly every level you can have that kind of cascading effect of choice.


  19. Raesene

    Raesene IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Yup, that was pretty much my experience. Many classes didn't become fun at all until one of the skill 'tier' levels where you finally started to unlock the skills you wanted to use.

    I love that in Diablo 3 I get start using fun and interesting skills right out of the gate. Every level gives you a new toy to play with (even if you only play with it for a little while).


  20. starrise

    starrise IncGamers Member

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    Re: Regarding "dumbed down" and "lack of customization".

    Here's my take on the customization/lack-of-choice deal for end-game. I've said something to this effect several times before, and I still believe it will be true.

    Unlike D2 and many other games, play-style will have a significant impact on build viability. Because of this impact, choices will be limited most significantly by play-style.

    If your play-style is narrow and focused on a few types of abilities/runes, then of course your choices will be limited: any other choices will get you killed, you won't have as much fun as with an "easier" build (relative to your play-style), and you will stop using it.

    If you are capable of many play-styles equally skillfully, then your choices will be very broad.

    My point is essentially that availability of choice is dictated and limited by you in the end game.

    I will concede that, in early game, there are few choices and they are metered out over time. This is also precisely true of Diablo 2 and virtually every other game. Metering out abilities is necessary to keep the game from becoming boring; if you had access to all of the abilities straight from the start, it would be akin to using a character editor. Virtually everyone who has used one with D2 will tell you the game gets excruciatingly boring rapidly.

    So yes, you are forced to pick from an ever-growing pool of abilities and runes as you level. But at each new ability unlock you can choose the "best" abilities. The abilities that mesh best with your play-style. The ones that are most exciting and fun for you.

    Because the beta is limited in scope, and abilities are metered out, the beta must necessarily be limited in choice. I am confident the full game will not be as limiting. Instead, as I stated, your choice will be limited most significantly by how you prefer to interact with the game, and what skills mesh best with your play-style.

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