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re rolling rares

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by utic, Oct 1, 2013. | Replies: 7 | Views: 2022

  1. utic

    utic IncGamers Member

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    I have some questions about re-rolling rare items with the soj/pskull recipe. the item I'm trying to get is a 2 druid / fhr / visionary / 3 fury / 2 socket pelt. those 4 affixes are a must, though ideally with life too


    this is what I've learned so far,


    if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
    then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
    else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}


    so to re-roll a druid pelt for the affixes I listed above, I need to know what ilvl it needs to get the corresponding alvl. In my case, the highest alvl is 59 (31-40life). so using the equation {alvl=2*ilvl-99};


    59=2*ilvl-99
    158=2*ilvl
    79=ilvl


    that means I need at least an ilvl of 79 to get all the affixes I want.


    that all seems ok, but here's where I start to get confused. the soj/skul recipe will max the ilvl of your item out at 2/3 of your character's lvl. so how can I get an ilvl of 79 if it caps out at 66% of your char lvl?


    also, "if (qlvl>ilvl) then {ilvl=qlvl} this new ilvl value is used for the duration of this calculation. The ilvl value is stores in the data file will remain unchanged."


    I'm not quite sure what this explanation means. but it's easy enough to avoid qlvl>ilvl if I need to, all I need to do is not use a dream spirit (qlvl=85). but if someone could elaborate on what that means, it would be appreciated.


    am I missing something about the relationship b/w qlvl and ilvl? if I use a blood spirit (qlvl=62), then that should work out? it has an qlvl lower than the the desired ilvl of 79.

    I also need some help with staffmods. fury is a 6 tier staffmod. this should be attainable with an ilvl of at least 37 --- is that right? is there anyway I can reduce the chances of other tiers rolling?


    please let me know what I'm missing. I want to make sure I got this right before rolling, which I plan to do manually. one last thing, I'll hopefully be able to get bulk unperm sojs/psulls. I'm pretty sure it won't matter if their unperm, but if for some reason that's a problem let me know.


    thanks very much in advance :)





    these were my main sources:
    http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/...tem-Generation-Tutorial-for-Patch-1-11-(v1-0)
    http://ladderhall.com/forums/topic/54117-faelwens-cubing-rerolling-guide/
  2. utic

    utic IncGamers Member

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    ok I think I see where I went wrong here. I got it backwards lol, the item is suppose to be rolled with a char lvl 2/3 of the wanted ilvl, not the ilvl will cap out at 2/3 your char lvl…..

    so this means that with an ilvl of 79, I need a char at least lvl 53? was actually 52.6, does the game round up?

    also would still like someone to help out with the staff mods and the qlvl. is there any way to increase the chances of fury (a 6 tier staffmod) of rolling over other tiers? does the original ilvl matter?; can I use any rare druid pelt (any qlvl) and will the ilvl just keep going up until it peaks at 79?
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  3. Noodle

    Noodle <img src="http://forums.diabloii.net/images/pal.gi

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    Out of curiosity, how do you plan on getting the thousands of SOJs likely to be necessary to get such a specific set of affixes?
  4. frozzzen

    frozzzen IncGamers Member

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    Dude, are you aware that this thing is impossible to reroll? I mean, in theory it is, but getting your five affixes, 2 druid, 10 fhr, visionary, mechanics (and it can spawn with either 1 or 2 holes) and mamooth chances are 1 : 5.637.729. So after we account chance that it will spawn either with one or two sockets odds double. So we have 1 : 11.275.458. Okay, that's still not bad, but the way fury spawns is: 1.1 average staffmods per item that can spawn with staffmods. 10% for skill to be tier 6 (where Fury is) and 1:5 for Fury to be selected as staffmod from five available tier 6 staffmods. Odds are 1:455 for +3 to fury. So it ends up like 1 : 5.130.333.390. For illustration...

    Let's say you have fountain that spawns SoJs, pelts with all requirements you need for reroll and PSkulls with unlimited number and that it takes 5 seconds for you to pick them from ground, place in horadric cube, transmute and check if it's required result, then toss in on ground. It would take you 813 years just to roll it. Without taking break, without going on toilet, eat, sleep or anything. Just rerolling this thing. Good luck and long life to you good sir~

    From question you asked only thing I can answer you, no, you cannot decrease chance for items to spawn with lower tier staffmods. You can only remove chance of highest staffmod spawning (and to extent tier 3, 4, and 5 with some tinkering), but that's not useful in your case at least.
  5. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    I'll leave the technical explanations regards probabilities to others, however, I think you need to have a read of the rules here.

    1) I'm delighted you plan to roll manually. There isn't any other way.
    2) Bulk perm SoJ? Anything we have here is legitimate; perming is something people think works on the Realms to keep their duped items poofing.

    In addition to the information in this thread, you will find information on affixes/staffmods etc in the Stickies. Along with a nice section of forum accepted mods.

    PM me if you have any questions.
  6. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    As Frozzzen has pointed out, the odds of such specific output are ridiculously small, and even if you got ridiculously lucky I'm not sure it would be much of an improvement on a socketed Jalal's Mane Unique Totemic Mask or Cerebus' Bite Unique Blood Spirit. However, to address some of the other questions raised:

    Output ilvl = [0.66*clvl] + [0.66*input ilvl]. If you want to reroll indefinitely without decreasing ilvl then you'll want input ilvl = output ilvl, so clvl = { {0.34*output ilvl}/0.66}, or you'll want a high qlvl rare (more below).

    This means that if qlvl > ilvl, then qlvl replaces ilvl in the alvl calculation as follows:

    if ilvl < 99 - [qlvl/2] becomes if qlvl < 99 - [qlvl/2]
    then alvl = ilvl - [qlvl/2] becomes then alvl = qlvl - [qlvl/2]
    else alvl = 2*ilvl - 99 becomes else alvl = 2*qlvl - 99

    For this reason, although high qlvl rares are rarer they are better used for rerolling, because you don't need to know or maintain their ilvl to ensure a high alvl. For example, if rerolling a rare Dream Spirit (qlvl 85) then when qlvl > ilvl, alvl is always 71 (85 > 99 - [85/2], so alvl = 2*85 - 99). Since the highest affix wanted is alvl 59, you could also use a rare Sky Spirit (qlvl 83, minimum alvl 67).

    Using a rare Blood Spirit, if ilvl < 99 - [62/2] or 62-68, then alvl = 31-37 (too low); otherwise, ilvl 69-99 results in alvl = 39-99, and your rare Blood Spirit needs to be ilvl > 78 for alvl > 58. If it is at least ilvl 79, then it needs to be rerolled by any level > 40 { {0.34*79}/0.66} character to ensure ilvl > 78 and alvl > 58.

    Even if it's only ilvl 62, any level > 59 character can reroll it once and it will be ilvl > 78 from then on with that character.

    An item requires ilvl > 36 to roll tier 6 staff mods, and has no chance of rolling tier 1-2 staffmods. Otherwise, there's nothing you can do while rerolling to improve the odds of rolling tier 6 staffmods.


    However, if you still want to reroll a rare pelt then you might want to use the 6 Perfect Skull recipe to reroll a rare Sky Spirit or Dream Spirit instead: although output ilvl = [0.4*clvl] + [0.4*input ilvl], their high qlvl guarantees they can both have alvl > 58, while any level > 57 character can reroll them and they'll still have ilvl > 36 for tier 6 staff mods (since [0.4*58] + [0.4*37] = 37).

    I wouldn't recommend either, though.
  7. utic

    utic IncGamers Member

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    ok thanks everyone, I didn't know the math for calculating the odds of rolling. even though the life suffix isn't necessary (would just be nice), the odds of getting 4 specific affixes with a particular staffmod still seems impossible :S

    and I do feel like I understand the inequalities used for re rolling better now, so thanks for posting ! :thumbup:

    I wonder how charsi food does it tho :ponder:

    most people I know who craft or re roll use bots to do it for them. and I was referring to duped sojs, not legit. idk about here, but on other sites, people sell dupped gear in bulk for a fraction of what it would otherwise cost. and I'm not talking about open battle.net. but thanks much, I see the stickies now.

    ohh, thanks. I'll have a look around the site :)
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  8. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    You can use inDiablo.de's affix calculator to determine the odds of a particular magic or rare item getting a particular set of affixes.

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