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Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)? ifra

Discussion in 'Demon Hunter' started by Human, Apr 27, 2012. | Replies: 30 | Views: 9152

  1. Human

    Human IncGamers Member

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    Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    I thought I'd ask if anyone had done any testing with Rapid Fire? I suspect that some weapons may be better than others with this skill.

    From my initial impressions, the skill fires at the same speed wether you are using a 2-handed heavy crossbow, or a pair of light hand crossbows.

    Given equal DPS weapons, in generally heavier 2-handed weapons do more damage per hit, but you fire/swing less often. However, if Rapid Fire unleashes the same number of shots either way, than anything that does more damage per hit will ultimate deliver more damage than faster weapons, if both fired at the same rate.

    Does anyone know how weapon damage from Rapid Fire works? Do each of the small bolts fired do their own damage? Do each generate their own chance to proc other abilities? How are other weapon modifiers applied?

    If a weapon has +1-2 fire damage for example, thats about +1.5 damage(avg) per hit. Then does that apply to each bolt fired for Rapid Fire? Obviously if it did, it may be overpowered, but it might suggest that weapons with damage modifiers would do more damage.

    In short, can anyone recommend the best type of weapon to use with this skill for the most damage in the shortest time? Or does it just not matter as long as their DPS is high?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Zelas

    Zelas IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    Rapid Fire multiplies your attack speed by 4 and each shot deal 1/4 of the total tooltip damage done by this skill per cycle.

    Thus it is affected by speed and damage range of a weapon, slower weapons will hit harder per shot, but with a lower firing rate.
     
  3. Human

    Human IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    I'm actually looking for a serious answer. If you multiple by 4 and then by 1/4, you are still at 100%, not the listed damage on the skill. Furthermore, it didn't answer any of my other questions about proc and bonus damage.


     
  4. Tryzx

    Tryzx IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    No, read what he said twice:

     
  5. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    Pretty sure that's strafe. Weren't rapid fire 6 times the as and 38% per shot.
     
  6. Qvardz

    Qvardz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    Anyway, the point is - choose weapon with highest DPS.
     
  7. chinz

    chinz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?


    You're right that the multiplier he said was wrong, but otherwise his description was correct, as the tooltip damage (228%) divided by 6 is exactly 38% per shot, just like you said.

    Anyway; DPS is all that matters, and RF will be doing 2.28x your character's DPS no matter what AS and damage you have.


     
  8. mike20599

    mike20599 Banned

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    Faster weapons will burn through your hatred faster though right?
     
  9. Qvardz

    Qvardz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    nope, its static 10 hatred per second


     
  10. Ganoidyn

    Ganoidyn IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    It's a static 10 hatred per second and the attack speed is six times your current attack speed, whatever that attack speed is. This works out where a higher attack speed weapon will proc more crits while a lower attack speed weapon with a similar DPS will hit harder per hit.

    This in contrast to skills such as the Wizard's Ray of Frost, which does in fact cost more AP the higher your attack speed - and will also do more damage to compensate.
     
  11. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    Faster AS burns the hatred faster with RF. Initial cost + 10 hatred per cycle which is equal to your attacks per second. It's balanced by the fact that you fill your pool faster when using hatred generators. At the moment it would look like that in a perfectly static tank and spank scenario dual wielding gives the best damage output, but passive regen is more kind towards slower weapons so it balances the scales in less than ideal scenarios where you can't keep rolling perfect rotations.

    I'm also 100% certain it's tied to the cycles, not 10 hatred per second. Used the withering fire rune in the open beta test and i emptied hatred pool in less than 10 seconds with dual hand crossbow even when there is passive hatred regen constantly doing it's work.
     
  12. chinz

    chinz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    Interesting, I thought it was per second. I don't really care what it ends up being, but I'd hope there would be more consistency in how skills like these work, at the moments seems like there is many somewhat similar "channeling" skills, some of which take resources by second and some by cycle. As the tooltips (even advanced ones) aren't too exact, it's often pretty hard to figure out exactly how the skill works without some empiric testing or forum reading.

    edit: I guess making better (more detailed) tooltips would also help
     
  13. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    I can't think any channel spell that takes resources by the second. As far as i can tell they all work in cycles.
     
  14. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    That's incorrect, RF's speed does depend on your APS. When I had 2.78 APS in the beta RF almost became a laser. :)

    Most definitely.

    Crits are per projectile. I don't know about the other procs as there aren't that many in the beta. Life on hit is most likely normalized for attack speed according to my testing and probably other on hit effect will behave the same way.

    It does, but not in a 1:1 ratio. Let me explain. RF will do the displayed 228% damage over one cycle. The length of a cycle is (1 / final APS). Under a cycle it will fire 6 (I think) projectiles, so the total number of projectiles fired under a second is supposed to be (6 * final APS). This means that the projectiles will do (final weapon damage / 6) damage, so effectively all damage bonus is divided by 6.

    If you want to know your DPS with RF, just multiply your DPS with its damage multiplier.

    Only the DPS counts for RF's damage. However it will cost you more Hatred do the same amount of damage with faster weapons, since resource costs are per cycle as well.


     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  15. Kalara

    Kalara IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    Thanks for the confirmations Hard Rock.

    I had just a couple more questions. We know some skills will alternate between weapons when dual wielding and some skills will always use the main hand. Does anyone know exactly which skills fall into which category? And if RF does alternate between weapons, does the whole channeled stream alternate or does it switch with each cycle? Would be important to consider if you have two weapons of very different DPS or mods such and +cold on only one of your weapons.

    Oh, about the +elemental damage, did anyone notice if all damage was converted to fire for Withering Shot or if the +dmg stayed the original elemental type? Does +cold dmg still chill if the RF rune has changed the dmg to fire or poison? Thanks.
     
  16. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    I'm not aware of such lists. Even if someone decided to compile one (I tried to do it in the beta) I wouldn't trust it very much. You would need much larger differences in item quality than what the beta provides to be absolutely sure about how certain skills work.

    RF is one of these problematic skills. I looked at it with a 2-3 damage and 7-15 damage hand crossbow, but I wouldn't call my findings conclusive. Since damage is divided by 6 for every projectile and the damage is displayed as an integer the difference between weapons is greatly reduced in the damage displayed to the player. The only thing I'm sure about RF is that it doesn't alternate per cycle. According to the character sheet it alternates crazy fast per shot and I'm inclined to believe that. When I used the two weapons I mentioned I still dealt relatively high damage with some of my shots, but more rarely compared to when I only used the better crossbow.

    All damage is converted. It's obvious, because with skills that have a specific damage type (even Physical like Rapid Fire) cold damage on your weapons won't slow targets.


     
  17. Human

    Human IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    Thanks HardRocks. Sounds like the outcome of my questions is that the weapon speed doesn't so much matter for Rapid Fire, and that DPS still is king.

    It also sounds like Rapid Fire allows for more criticals or procs since each bolt is fired separately, though the additional damage is similarly reduced.

    What I don't fully understand is mana spending. If faster weapons use your mana faster, it sounds as if you'd get more damage out of one full use (from a full Hatred pool) of Rapid Fire with a slow weapon, but that it would take longer to refill your hatred pool? Is that correct.

    Thanks.


     
  18. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    That's right. Although the difference in resource regeneration shouldn't be as pronounced for Demon Hunters as for the Barb and Monk, because DHs have a passive regen on top of their generator skills, but it's still an important consideration.
     
  19. Human

    Human IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    So then are they any situation where you might want slower weapons over faster one, given the same DPS? What might the advantages either be, is there any strategic decisions to be made with regards to weapon speed and play style? Opinions welcome.

    On a similar note, what are the advantages and disadvantages of dual wielding for a Demon Hunter, verse two handed bow/crossbow and quiver?

    Thanks.
     
  20. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Rapid Fire: how does it work (light or heavy weapon)?

    With the DH, it's completely up to the player, unless there are some DH skills like Rend, that doesn't scale with APS. I always preferred faster weapons because my character feels more responsive with them.

    Quivers come with a 10% IAS bonus, while DW grants you +15% IAS, so there's that. Additionally weapons and quivers may carry different affixes. For example skill bonuses won't spawn on Hand Crossbows.


     

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