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PvP Frozen Orb / Energy Shield sorceress. Need some advice.

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by UserMathias, Jul 24, 2004. | Replies: 51 | Views: 15754

  1. UserMathias

    UserMathias IncGamers Member

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    PvP Frozen Orb / Energy Shield sorceress. Need some advice.

    Allright, so I'm looking to make this build I find ought to be more than promising. I'll be playing it on euro-pvp so the rules that are there would apply. (I'll put relevant rules wherever needed).


    K, here's my skill allocation:

    (The 1+ areas are where I need help.)

    Cold

    20 Frozen Orb
    20 Cold Mastery (I need all I can get; other players can have up to +225% cold resist)
    20 Ice bolt
    1 Frozen Armor?
    4 prerequisites

    Lightning

    20 Telekinesis
    1+ Energy shield
    1+ teleport
    3 pre-reqs

    Fire
    1+ Warmth


    I'd like to have the right balance of teleport and warmth to be able to tele without losing mana. With this aspect being ever so item related...


    Equipment

    Aims (priority):
    -70% fcr
    -Over 1k damage frozen orb, while having no more than +30% increased cold skill damage. (rule...)
    -Some magic damage reduced by x.

    Aims (other):
    -Max block
    -Damage reduced by 10%
    -Over 800 mana and life
    -Some resists.
    -Some mana regeneration
    -Some life replenish would also be fairly cool.


    Armor
    Setup 1: Vipermagi (socketed with a Perfect skull?)
    Setup 2: Ormus +3 warmth. Socketed with a +5% cold facet

    Helmet
    1: Shako (socketed with?)
    2: Shako socketed with a +5% facet

    -I'd just like to say that I don't like nightwing's veil. The +1.5 * clvl to life and mana from shako goes a long way, thus making it better for this character and it's setup.

    "Weapon"
    1: Death's Fathom (socket with?)
    2: Occulus (+5% cold facet)

    Shield: I think I'll be going for a sanctuary tower shield. Suggestions welcomed. :drool:

    Amulet Tal rasha's amulet.

    Rings 2*sojs

    Belt Arachnid Mesh

    Gloves Frostburn

    Boots Waterwalks or Silkweave. :scratch:

    Switch Memory in a +3 energy shield staff.

    Inventory
    -10 cold skillers, annihilus.
    -Rest: uh... some life/mana sc's, some other charms with mana/fhr/res.


    Allright, so, total +skills: 12

    I checked how it all looks in single player.
    At lvl 90: Just under 800 life, around 900 mana. <- with 210 stat points still uninvested, nothing put into energy.


    First question: Is a perfect skull with mana regeneration% good? As in, would it just add to what warmth adds, or is it counted in a different way?

    Second: How should I balance out mana and warmth to get free teleport? And when I still have points left over, should I dump more into tele or warmth?

    Third: How should I balance out mana, life (energy), and the level of energy shield?


    Thanks in advance,

    Mathias.
  2. Sorceress

    Sorceress IncGamers Member

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    i agreed with u on the helm part
    i think shako socket with 5/5 cold is a better choice for a orb sorceress cuz
    the life/mana with DR is nice
    nightwing is better for blizzard imo.

    i wouldn't put a single point in any cold armor for pvp
    u should really try to get 105%+ for pvp cuz u can teleport faster
    if u cant get 105% with ormus then wear vipermagi and magefist
    u will also need fast cast rings or crafted +20 ammy to reach 105% with fathom
    and don't socket a perfect skull in vipermagi its closed to useless
    socket it with something good like 15% resist all with mod or 5/5 cold if u can
    primary weapon should be perfect fathom socket with 5/5
    weapon switch should be a cta
    waterboots is good if its perfect 65 life
    rare boots with resist all is always nice too

    and if you are not new in this forum you should heard of sorc xpert Zharous
    he pointed out points in teleport > points in warmth
    meaning u will regenerate mana faster WHILE u r teleporting with a 1 mana requirement teleport
    but if u r not the type that teleports a lot, warmth is better investment
  3. bob

    bob IncGamers Member

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    yes pvp u dont need Frozen armors but u DO need to have very fast teleport. A fast teleport is the same as a good defence so u need to hit at least 65 fcr

    probably the most difficult choice u have equipment wise is what shield to get. Sanctuary is a pretty good choice with the 20 dex but then you would have to find a shield with fairly high block to start with. i like to use a wiz spike + mosers with 2 pdia. on switch.
    Splendor (Eth-Lum) 2 socket shield only
    +1 to all Skills
    +10% faster cast rate
    +20% faster block rate
    +(60-105)% enhanced defense (varies)
    +10 to energy
    Regenerate Mana 15%
    +50% gold from monsters
    +20% chance of finding magic items
    +3 to light radius
    splendors a cheaper choice with better blocking than lidless
  4. bob

    bob IncGamers Member

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    on a second note when u do make the char can u tell us how much u put into energy/vitality because this is probably the most important part of the sorc balancing how much buffer mana and real life to have. i believe with max telek. u get .75 or 1.00 mana to health ratio yet u have to factor in that ES is accounted before resists, possibly wiping out ur mana if u get hit by a fireball, thunder, or blizzard. Im interested in how these duels would turn out with ES
  5. AndyChrono

    AndyChrono IncGamers Member

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    Hmmm. To be perfectly honest, the build you are going for will end up being vastly inferior in almost all matchups compared to a sorc that goes with an all out ES with loads and loads of mana along with FO. The only real advantage your build has is that it doesn't require a very high level to finish...but unless there's a rule capping levels in euro-pvp I'd HIGHLY suggest this build.

    Frozen Orb: 20
    Cold Mastery: 20
    Ice Bolt: 20
    Energy Shield: 20
    Telekinesis: 20
    Warmth: 1
    Prereqs and other Staple Spells: 1

    Of course...this is a level 90+ build which may not be favorable to you, but IMO it is much more effective all around. A very high level energy shield will make most spells that hurt you significantly tickle you instead....as long as you have mana of course. You will need to use lightning charms or prebuffing or both to get your ES to level 40 which is the maximum level of protection (95%). Frozen Armor isn't much use, since all the equipment we use is low defense anyway.


    Stats to support such a build would be something like:

    Str: 35
    Dex: None or 150 depending on whether you want blocking
    Vit: BASE
    Energy: Everything Else

    Basically the idea is to get a whole bunch of mana to support your ES. With the right items and this stat allocation, you can easily reach 3000 mana or more which is enough to sustain your energy shield as long as you don't try to tank too much...

    Item-wise:

    Shako /w Dol Rune
    35 Vipermagi /w Dol Rune
    Arachnid Mesh
    30 Fathom /w Resist All Jewel or Regen Life
    Frostburns
    Whitstans or Lidless /w UM
    2 SOJ's
    Mara's
    Rare Boots with triple resist, FHR, stats... or just a waterwalks or something

    Switch: CTA and Lidless

    The basic idea here is +% mana items with resists and damage where possible. Blocking is optional, but IMO the tradeoff is more than worth it, as it makes you much much harder to kill for physical damage dealers.

    Shako gives huge life/mana and is superior to Nightwings in almost every way.

    Viper has very nice resist and gives a nice amount of FCR.

    Arachnid gives mana, fcr, and +skill which is basically more damage.

    Fathom will give you a tremendous damage boost. If you can't get a 30 fathom, find a 25 fathom and socket it with a facet to abide by the rules =D. Frosties and Sojs are pretty self-explanatory.

    Mara's is superior to Tal's for this build since it adds to your BO level on CTA while Tal's DOES NOT. They basically give roughly the same amount of life in the end, with Mara's ultimately giving slightly more mana if you have nice charms. Plus, Mara's has better all around resists, which are hard to come by with this build.

    A godly set of rare boots is an additional bonus. The most important resists in PvP for this build are: in order of decreasing importance: poison, fire and lightning are equally important. Poison resist is the most important since it is one of your few weaknesses; ES doesn't affect poison damage... You might want to keep some anti-poison gear in your inventory for certain matchups...

    As for the sockets, regen life's effects are exponentially increased with this build. Since with 95% ES, every point of life you regen is effectively 20 life, or 120 listed damage. With just 2 Dol Runes, you regen abuot 1.5 life a second, so in 10 seconds, you regen 15 life... which is the same as around 300 PvP damage, or 1800!!! listed damage.


    Charms: I personally dislike prebuffing....so I keep a large amount of lightning GC's in my inventory with only a few cold GC's. My sorc still has 1k FO damage with just 34% +cold damage which is only barely outside your rules. If you prebuff your ES, you can easily load up with all cold GC's and be dealing around 1.2k FO damage... the most important charm is the anni. You'll probably need at least an 18 stat anni for this build unless you have boots that give strength. For the other small charms, get 20/17's if you can. Or just get life or mana charms.


    In the end, you will "potentially" have these characteristics with the right equipment.
    ~1.2k FO damage and around -200 or more cold mastery
    ~1500 Life and ~3000 Mana
    75% Blocking
    75% Resist in Hell for everything except Cold
    95% ES on top of that
    70% FCR

    When properly played, this build only has a few glaring weaknesses. The first is a WW assassin with venom. Although you can improve the odds by putting on anti-poison gear. Open wounds is a problem too, but its not even close to the speed of venom. Next comes trappers. With huge elemental damage and the ability to deal it out very quickly. Your mana will drain insanely fast. Finally, there's the wind druid with cyclone armor... but then again FO sorcs in general have no chance against a wind druid who knows what he is doing. Frankly, all of these weaknesses are ones shared by all FO sorcs, and perhaps even sorcs in general.

    If you are going to make an FO sorc, I'd highly suggest taking the max ES route. It's a build that takes Orb's greatest advantage (relatively few skill points needed), and places those points in a powerful defensive spell that dramatically increases your longevity in most cases.
  6. bob

    bob IncGamers Member

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    please clarify how one can get 1500 life and 3000 mana even with Cta it seems pretty difficult especially the 1500 life
  7. UserMathias

    UserMathias IncGamers Member

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    Forgot to mention two things: I can't use bo (hence memory). An exception is in TvT, where a non-sorc char can.

    I also have a limit of +10 replenish life.



    What to do about the remaining 5% damage? Ie.: 21k fireball, penalized to around 3.5k. Post energy shield: 175. So let's say 200.

    Okay I answered myself, some mdr and a wee bit of resists should bring that down to ... very little.



    Such as Sandstorm trek? I've got a pair that's +69% poison res. What kind of damage do such assasins do? Would maxed resists cut it or should I have a gul'ed shako in my stash?


    I've got a 20/20 anni. Not bragging of course... :teeth:



    I thought it was the other way around? Ie. + mana and +life gets bonuses from +% mana/life. Meanwhile vitality and energy does not.


    Yeah ^^


    I agree with the rest, AndyChrono.


    That's .75



    That's a bit of a trouble, even if I switch my gloves to magefist (btw, it looks like I'm going with Setup 1) it'll look like:

    Fathom - 20
    Viper - 30
    Arach - 20
    Magefist - 20

    Total - 90. Unless I find that crazy ring :cheesy:



    And yer, I do plan on teleporting a lot. So would 9fpc be enough?
  8. AndyChrono

    AndyChrono IncGamers Member

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    In that case, since I assume, all other non-barb classes can't use BO, everyone has the same amount of relative life anyway. So its not that big of a deal. For the replenish life cap, just get 10 then =D.

    Most WW sins will have high venom damage and some open wounds. There isn't much you can do against open wounds other than not getting hit. If you are dueling in Hell, then poison becomes very difficult to negate. Many use bramble which will make their Venom hurt a lot more than it usually does, and the length reduction (or should I say extension?) penalty in Hell means more damage... Generally ur only chance against a half-decent WW sin with this build is to make some DRASTIC item changes. First, Venom Ward for armor. Then Snakecord for ur Belt. Finally, Death's Set Gloves for your gloves. Only then....will venom be managable... Trekies, Gul'ed Shako, etc. don't cut it for this matchup.

    That is not what I meant. I'll clarify. Mara's gives +2 to ALL skills, while Tal's Ammy gives +2 to SORC skills. For most intents and purposes, these things are exactly the same. However, since Battle Orders is not a sorc skill, Mara's gives 2 extra levels to Battle Orders from CTA which Tal's does not. This amounts to 6% more life/mana from BO. Normally this means the two amulets give roughly the same life/mana in the end, but Mara's has much better all around resists, which are hard to come by in a build like this. But...since you can't use BO anyway, this is irrelavent; Tal's is probably a better choice for you since you can't use BO.

    9 fpc is generally enough for most matchups. There may be a few matches where you'll need to use magefists for extra cast rate, but the mana boost from Frostburns is extremely significant, especially for a build like this...


    My sorc currently uses this: Shako, 35 Viper, Arachnid, Frostburns, Rare Boots, 2 Soj's, Mara's, Fathom, Whitstans (switch = 6 BO Cta & Lidless)

    Stat Allocation: Str: 35, Dex: 150, Vit: 10, Energy: Everything else

    I currently have about 1000 life and about 2700 mana with BO. However, what I do not possess, are Skill GC's with +life and 20/17 sc's. My charms are simply plain skill GC's and my sc's are all simply 20 life ones.

    If I got 10 GC's all with +40 life on them, that's 400 more life instantly, modified by my BO which gives 86% more life (~350 more life), giving me around 1750 life.

    For my mana, adding nine 20 life / 17 mana charms would net me 153 more mana, which is then modified by all my +% mana equipment & Battle Orders, which together is around 200%. That basically adds about 300+ more mana on top of that, giving me a grand total of around 3200 mana.

    Granted this is with top-of-the-line equipment, but say I got GC's with only 30 life on them, I'd still reach around 1500 life. If my SC's didn't have 17 mana, but slightly less, I'd still easily reach 3000 mana. This goes without saying that I use a build that has blocking. If I had put those 125 points into Energy instead of Dex, I'd end up with around 750 MORE mana getting me close to 4000 mana =D.
  9. bob

    bob IncGamers Member

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    i do happen to have a 10fcr with 60+ mana and miscellaneous stats for trade
    (rare ring)
  10. UserMathias

    UserMathias IncGamers Member

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    Frankly, I'm not all too convinced about an all-out energy shield sorceress. I mean, with all the high damage chars out there, my mana orb will be eaten in no time. Take the 3.5k post penatly fireball. I mean... :cheesy:

    Is it really that bad if I go the way I first pointed out? A balance between life and mana, and a lvl of energy shield that will mean I lose some more mana than life when hit. This should actually let me tank more. :scratch:


    Might as well just place this link... so it won't be 'oh theres a rule that' every time you come up with something.

    Clicky
  11. AndyChrono

    AndyChrono IncGamers Member

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    Hmmm, normally it wouldn't be a problem from something like fireball....but since you can't use BO.... shrug

    Its ultimately up to you.
  12. UserMathias

    UserMathias IncGamers Member

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    Mkay then.

    I'll build it, taking into account all recommendations already made, and will post my results once I'm done.


    Which will be in three months. (Can't really start till the end of summer - my better comp is in Poland).


    I'll start buying the stuff now, though.

    Er... feel free to post here something like "Don't buy this and that!!!"
  13. Soepgroente

    Soepgroente IncGamers Member

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    Socket your stuff with perfect sapphires and your shield with a sur rune. This way you'll get a hefty boost to your mana. Ignore DR% with ES, and don't pay too much attention to resistances. You get like 50 damage from a full damage fire ball at 0 resist with ES, just gotta keep that mana up. All you need is about 800 life (so you don't instantly die to poison/OW)
  14. UserMathias

    UserMathias IncGamers Member

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    Would that require a very high level es?

    I'm just not all that sure about it. It could drain my mana almost right away, and why not just lower the %absorbed so some more goes through the entire mdr, resists, and absorbs process, ultimately resulting in less damage. Basically, to have the es as a sort of backup/boost to my life/tankability.


    Any chance there's someone out there who's made a max es sorc and could pitch in their 2 cents?
  15. LovelyGods

    LovelyGods Banned

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    When your saying GC's are u talking about Cold Gc's? Or LIght ones?

    Cuz i think that even if u didn't have lvl 40 ES, it would still be viable. Right?

    And about shields.

    Is Whistans very viable in pvp? or is there something better to achieve max block?

    ES always interested me, i just never knew how to make one..

    THX> one other thing. How much Fcr did u say u had. it seems like urs is kinda low....maybe im reading wrong..

    EDIT::::::
    another thing....

    might i suggest using a HOto instead of fathom.... i think having more Fcr is better then more damage. also..

    HOW DOES THIS BUILD DO DAMAGE WISE AGAINST GOOD PVP'ERS Is the 1.2k damage enough to kill fast? Effectivly?? Ive been trying to make / find a good build for this and it appears that u have done this.... just wondering..
  16. LovelyGods

    LovelyGods Banned

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    ok im a moron and i can't read.

    i didn't read all threads and i just answered my own questions..
  17. UserMathias

    UserMathias IncGamers Member

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    um..... ok dude ^^



    I don't feel this question has been answered. :(


    Come on people... Should I dump massive amounts of stat points into mana and energy shield, or should I only have a bit extra mana, and a low % energy shield?

    What kind of mana is attainable? For what reasons is either better?
  18. Zharous

    Zharous IncGamers Member

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    Just a few notes, it depends on your teleport speed and somewhat on your gear, but I've worked the numbers out and for a general guide:

    1500 mana or less = add pts to teleport
    2000 mana or more = add pts to warmth

    Most eshield sorcs should use warmth if they place any skillpoints into one..

    Pre-Buffing with a Cold skill orb, and a +3 ES Memory staff will help alot. Also remember Memory gives you Static field, nice for those long PVM leveling games..

    At 95% (skill level 40 EShield), most resistances other then poison are meaningless.
    If 11K elemental damage hits you, it first goes through the following damage order:

    11,000 damage
    17% pvp multiplier: 1870 damage
    95% Energy Shield with 20 TK: 1870*.95*.75 = 1332 mana lost

    5% damage to life: 93.5

    Of course with full resists you'll lower that much further, and some decent swappable resistance gear may help against a few opponents, but your main concern is usually keeping your mana pool active when dueling against multiple opponents.

    If you do NOT go with MAX energy shield, and get the necessary gear to keep your eshield above 85-90%, then resistance becomes that much more important.

    % Cold damage gear really does help. Ormus + Death Fathom's + Cold facets at minimum are a must. Coldskill charms do not as as much damage as they used to add, but they are still important for high -cold piercing.

    20 Pts in Ice bolt = the same as 40% cold damage gear. Nice, but not an absolute requirement. With very good life/mana and coldskill+life charms Nightwing may be viable, especially considering that Harlequin Crest's +mana/level doesn't get multiplied by max mana gear like sojs, frostburn, arachnids, or lidless anymore.

    Regen is definetely nice. A nice +2 sorc 18% cast rate 6 replenish life +24 mana doesn't hurt either. Any regen gear is a huge bonus for this build, and my most frequently used caster ring is a 10% cast 8 repl life, 66 mana, ..etc.. ring.

    20% Fathom
    20% Ormus
    20% Lidless
    20% Arachnid
    15-20% amulet
    10% cast ring (magic) with 100-120 mana

    105% / 8 fps casting vs melee/physical

    (Vs casters, which are the ones moving around the most anyway)

    20% Fathom
    20% Ormus
    (Whistans)
    20% Arachnid
    +2 10% cast +dex amulet (for block)

    63% / 9 fps casting vs melee/physical

    Again, I went with the cold facets, max TK + ES, Orb + CM, 1 PT ice bolt, and rest in Warmth. The +% cold damage gear makes up for the lack of synergy nicely.

    A few mana regen #'s: (in terms of mana per sec)

    1500 mana

    200% regen: 37.5
    250% regen: 43.8
    300% regen: 50
    400% regen: 62.5

    2000 mana

    200% regen: 50
    250% regen: 58.3
    300% regen: 66.7
    400% regen: 83.3

    2500 mana

    200% regen: 62.5
    250% regen: 72.9
    300% regen: 83.3
    400% regen: 104.2

    3000 mana

    200% regen: 75
    250% regen: 87.5
    300% regen: 100
    400% regen: 125.0

    Just also remember a larger mana pool is more important then high warmth or +regen equipment, as the second your eshield drops you'll typically die.

    When dueling it's important to watch what tends to drop first when you die, your life or your mana pool. If life, add more resistances (DR gear/el.resistance charms, etc) If mana, then either be more careful & defensive, or wear more +max mana gear, or swap a few of those poor skill charms for a few life/mana charms...
  19. UserMathias

    UserMathias IncGamers Member

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    Hands down, thanks for your post. Thing is, I can't go the +% cold damage route.

    So I'm capped at +30%

    ...but reading all that makes me very tempted to ditch euro-pvp and find some other place. It sure sounds good.


    I think I'll think about this in the morning though... A bit of a buzz right now...


    Edit: This is such a useless post... sigh...
  20. LovelyGods

    LovelyGods Banned

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    and why would u use DOl runes??

    isn't 2 x coldfacets more helpful??

    the life u gain back from Dol isn't worth it in pvp.. if ittakes you longer then 30 seconds to end a duel, then the sorc isn't workign right..

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