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PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

Discussion in 'Druid' started by Octogenarian, Jun 9, 2011. | Replies: 99 | Views: 52138

  1. Octogenarian

    Octogenarian IncGamers Member

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    PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    The Guide:

    I've been character hopping constantly during my Diablo 2 experience (11 years) until I adapted this version of the Shock Summoner (originally developed by Jary), which is my favorite class thus far; the purpose of this guide is to: review the progress of my build, hear suggestions, display current gear and answer any questions.

    ***Skills, Attributes and Gear are all changed and kept up to date in this section; progress/statistics/research/tweaks in relation to the character's development can be read in the pages following this. I will do my best to add as much information as I can to this portion, and if that can't answer your question please ask me and I'll explain the answer to the best of my knowledge.


    -Octo


    v1.13 PvP Fire Claws/Shock Summoner/Shaman Hybrid


    Table of Contents

    I. Basic Description
    II. Skills
    III. Base Attributes

    IV. Items
    V. Damage/Other Stats
    VI. Stat Modifiers
    VII. Max Damage Modifiers from Small Charms
    VIII. Battle Analysis

    ***Emboldened Sections have updated material

    ***Cmd+f is your friend.

    I.Basic Description:
    This druid hybrid has three primary damage sources; Summon Grizzly, Fire Claws, and Fissure. The key to playing this character type correctly is remaining unpredictable and resourceful, so being able to cycle through damage outputs or use all three at once is crucial to overcoming opponents on an underdog build.

    ***You do not have to use the 99/163 FCR Breakpoints at all times and dropping below the 99 FCR Breakpoint to make room for defensive equipment makes melee PvP substantially more viable.
    3/19/12 Character Build Revamp:

    II.Skills:

    20 Summon Grizzly
    20 Fire Claws
    20 Volcano
    20 Fissure
    17 Firestorm

    1 Oak Sage
    1 Molten Boulder
    1 Arctic Blast
    1 Cyclone Armor
    1 Twister
    1 Tornado
    1 Hurricane
    1 Lycanthropy
    1 Fire Storm
    1 Fissure
    1 Raven
    1 Summon Spirit Wolf
    1 Summon Dire Wolf
    1 Werewolf
    1 Werebear
    1 Feral Rage
    1 Maul
    0 Shockwave (+1 from Pelt)
    0 Heart of Wolverine (+2 from Pelt)

    Character Level: 96


    ***Dropped Armageddon for the same cooldown issue as before and decided to boost Fissure as my primary elemental spell; Fissure has a 2-3 second hold on Were Bear shifting instead of Armageddon's 6 second inability to shape shift after casting, so my mobility has increased, my Shaman spells are more reliable, and after boosting those my Fire Claws' damage has also been greatly affected.

    Fire Claws now hits between 10,000-12,000 with my Superior Robo-Phase Blade on, with a maximum of 12,000-15,000 when using Beast; by redirecting my Shaman talents I've made almost all of this Hybrid build's synergies correlate with one another.

    Fissure does about 2,700-2950 damage at the moment, but I am seriously considering pushing the character to 99; Firestorm will be maxed, giving Fissure its highest potential damage with my equipment and proving the build to be finished at that level.



    III.Base Attributes and Statistics:

    Strength: 15 (no additional points added)
    Dexterity: 141**
    Vitality: 389**
    Energy: 20 (no additional points added)

    ***Health and dexterity are displayed at their base stats, without any equipment.

    Life after Battle Orders (Human): 3148
    Life after Battle Order (Human + Oak Sage): 5440
    Life after Battle Orders (Werebear): 6504
    Life after Battle Orders (Werebear + Oak Sage): 8796


    Mana: 836

    Defense (Spirit): 4751
    Defense (Stormshield): 6574



    IV.Items:



    Weapons

    -110% I.A.S. Superior Phase Blade - 13% enhanced damage, 6 sockets; (4x) Shael Rune, (2x) +15 All Resist/15% Increased Attack Speed
    - Perfect 285% Enhanced Damage Beast (Superior Berserker Axe)

    - Perfect Ethereal Breath of the Dying (Berserker Axe); 415% Enhanced Damage
    - Perfect Grief (Berserker Axe); 40% Increased Attack Speed/400 Damage
    - Perfect Doom (Berserker Axe); 385% Enhanced Damage/-60 Cold Resistance (for BM)
    - Perfect Suicide Branch (for 163% FCR Breakpoint)
    - Perfect Call to Arms (Phase Blade)


    Shield(s):
    -Perfect 15/15 Spirit (Monarch)

    -Perfect B.O. Spirit (Monarch)
    -Perfect Stormshield; Shael Rune for increased Faster Block Rate



    Armor:

    -Perfect Superior Enigma Dusk Shroud - 775/15


    Pelt:

    Octogenarian's Storm Mask
    Earth Spirit

    Defense: 322
    2 to Druid Skills
    24% Faster Hit Recovery
    +3 to Summon Grizzly
    +1 to Shockwave
    +2 to Heart of Wolverine
    183% Enhanced Defense
    +18 Strength
    +16 Dexterity
    +20 Resist All
    Socketed [2]



    Gloves/Belt/Boots:
    -Perfect 2x Upgraded Magefist (Crusader Gauntl

    -Perfect Arachnid Mesh (Spiderweb Sash)
    -Perfect Waterwalk (Sharkskin Boots)
    -Perfect Aldur's Advance (Battle Boots)


    Amulet/Rings:

    -Crafted Amulet
    Rune Torc
    +2 to Druid Skills
    20% Faster Cast Rate
    +72 to Mana
    7% to Mana Regeneration
    +17 to All Resists


    -Crafted Ring
    Stone Knot
    10% Faster Cast Rate
    3% Life Leech
    +24 to Strength
    +12 to Dexterity
    +18 to Life
    30% Fire Resist


    -Perfect Raven Frost - 250/20
    -Highlord's Wrath


    Inventory:

    -(5x) Druid Summon/40 Life Grand Charms
    -(4x) Druid Shapeshifting/40-44 Life Grand Charms

    -Perfect Druid Torch
    -19/19/9 Annihilus
    -(3x) 19 Life/5 Resist All Small Charms
    -(7x) 3 Max Damage/18-19 Attack Rating/18-19 Life


    V.Damage/Other Stats:


    ***Average PvP Damage is calculated by the following formula:

    [(Average PvM Weapon Damage)/100]*17

    ***Average PvP Damage after 50% Damage Reduction (opponents' gear) is calculated by the following formula:

    (Average PvP Damage)/2[/I][/B]

    Weapon Damage

    PvM Weapon Damage Range (Breath of the Dying): 1,449-4,422
    Average PvM Weapon Damage (Breath of the Dying): 2,935
    Average PvP Weapon Damage after 50% Damage Reduction Applied (Breath of the Dying): 249.48

    PvM Weapon Damage Range (Griswold's Redemption): 989-1320
    Average PvM Weapon Damage (Griswold's Redemption): 1154.5
    Average PvP Weapon Damage after 50% Damage Reduction Applied (Griswold's Redemption): 98.13

    PvM Weapon Damage Range (Beast): 667-2104
    Average PvM Weapon Damage (Beast): 1385.5
    Average PvP Weapon Damage after 50% Damage Reduction Applied (Beast): 235.54


    Fire Claws Damage

    PvM Fire Claws Damage Range: 6,788-7439
    Average PvP Fire Claws Damage: 1209.30
    Average PvP Fire Claws Damage (after normal--75--resists applied): 306


    Total Average PvP Damage from Weapon Damage and Fire Claws after 50% Damage Reduction and (75) Normal Max Fire Resist
    Breath of the Dying: 555.48
    Griswold's Redemption: 404.13
    Beast: 541.54

    ***Depending on my opponent's Defense, Resistance, and XX% Bonus Damage Reduction the damage output will increase/decrease; all of the damage sums above are calculated at a forced minimum.



    Range of Attack Rating on Fire Claws (no enchant) - 23,065 AR to 45,000 AR
    Range of Increased Attack Speed (depends on weapon) - 60%-110%
    F.H.R. (with Spirit) - 90% (4% Over-capped on break-point)
    F.C.R. Range - 40%, 63%, 99%, 163%
    Run/Walk Speed - 65%, 75%, 85%


    VI.Stat Modifier Examples:


    Heart of Wolverine
    (42)
    Radius: 7.46 yards
    Damage: 307%
    Attack: 312%


    Heart of Wolverine Damage Modifier: 3.07

    Heart of Wolverine Attack Rating Modifier: 3.12


    Oak Sage (21)
    Radius: 46.6 yards
    Life: 130%


    Oak Sage Life Multiplier: 1.30



    Werebear (22)

    Life: 200%
    Duration: 500 seconds
    Damage: 223%
    Defense: 151%


    Werebear Life Modifier: 2.00
    Werebear Damage Modifier: 2.23
    Werebear Defense Modifier: 1.51



    Fanaticism (9)

    Radius: 12.6 yards

    Party Damage +93%
    Your Damage +186%
    Attack Speed +29%
    Attack +80%


    Fanaticism (Your) Damage Modifier: 1.86
    Fanaticism Attack Speed Modifier: .29
    Fanaticism Attack Rating Modifier: .8



    ***Stat Modifiers are important because the modifiers' similar archetypes add together and multiply against their specific offensive/defensive stat. When calculating your Stat Modifiers' effects (particularly damage in this example): after all of your attributes have effected your weapon's damage, you can also seperately calculate the benefits of multiplying your Total Damage Modifier with any Minimum or Maximum Damage increase on your gear. Being able to greatly increase all Damage types and Attack Rating is very important to this build; this explains why the 3/XX/XX is one of your best friends on this build:




    VII.Max Damage Modifiers from Small Charms:


    Max Damage is effectively useful on this type of bear because all damage modifiers that are skills affect your total weapon damage only after it has been calculated from your base attributes in addition to your gear's bonus attributes; Max Damage is useful to me because I have a high damage modifier: 690% damage with Fanaticism from Beast and at least 504% otherwise, which works out to:

    [(Fanaticism 1.86 + Heart of Wolverine 3.07 + Werebear 2.23)*(Average, Additional Maximum or Minimum Damage from gear)]

    For this example, our formula will be:

    [(6.90)*(1.0 point of Additional Maximum Damage)]

    So:

    [6.90(1.0)] = 6.90
    ^
    1 extra point of Max Damage = 6.90 points of Max Damage after HoW/Bearform

    So +3 Max Damage on my 3 Max Damage/XX Attack Rating/XX Life Small Charm actually ends up being 20.7 max damage, yielding a higher Overall Damage Average as well as extra Max Damage.




    VIII.Battle Analysis

    Paladins:
    Hammerdins: A relatively simple fight, stay Were Bear for the majority of it and teleport evasively when sync is attempted; kiting them on the ground is easiest with south/east/west walk if you change directions spontaneously. Keep a summon bear on top of or near your current and next location; this plays as defensive strategy in your opponents' mind, but is actually an offensive tactic by giving your bear the opportunity to strike them upon landing on you with the bear in range ready to smite.

    Smiters: Always an interesting fight, stay Were Bear and find puddles or obstructions in the moor that allow you to keep your distance between your opponent while they are trying to close the gap to attack you; staying away from a Smiter is the key to winning against them because they hit with every swing, regardless of block. Cast bear between yourself and the Smiter at all times; when they use charge they will collide with it and buy you time to get away. Lure the opponent around your bear in a circular fashion (I use the puddles in the moor) so that your Summon Grizzly's Smite is in range to attack.

    Fist of the Heavens Paladin: Re-shifting is the only game you need to play to win this battle; as long as you can sequentially re-cast Were Bear in opposing correlation with their attack you can stay alive for an abnormally long amount of time, allowing your Summon Grizzly to bring home a victory.


    Whirlwind Barbarians: This is a very difficult fight at times, but always walk and avoid standing still. Try to line yourself up directly with their whirlwind so that you have the best chance of hitting them as they glitch by you; Grief works wonders with this fight.


    Necromancers: One of my favorite fights, avoid approaching them in a straight line at all times; do not allow yourself to be caught between Spirits, and use corners and obstructions in the Blood Moor to drop unwanted Spirit trains. With a Superior Robo-Phase Blade it's possible to murder any Vitality Necromancer, but Max-Block characters will offer a longer and more intricate fight. Always avoid hitting their Clay Golem and avoid standing still.


    Druids

    -Wind Elemental: Radial avoidance around your opponent is key to avoiding high damage here; staying in Were Bear is a must for a killing blow, but you can switch out to teleport so that you can re-summon minions. Use Shock Wave when target is in range to hold him in place while you find his name plate, then use Maul to pre-buff Fire Claws with a stun on hit; now you have a 4 f.p.a. stun with 12,000 fire damage against an opponent who is normally not geared in max-block or high fire resistance.

    -Fire Elemental: Fight this opponent as a mirror build, but switch it up for the killing blow by tele-stomping him in Were Bear.

    -Rabies: Put on max-block, maximum damage reduction gear and a -30 enemy fire resistance/+30% fire damage 6 socket phase blade or crystal sword; use walk but teleport to avoid and recast summons if they come into contact with rabies before teleporting again, otherwise you will reset their location on top of your character and give yourself Rabies. Other than that, cast Fissure in front of your opponent and lure him into Fissure traps and it's ez-street.

    -Fire Claws/Fury: Max-block and maximum damage reduction is a must for both, as some Fire Claws wolves will also use Fury to avoid their opponent's use of fire absorption; Use the -30/+30 sword mentioned earlier and treat it the same as a Rabies fight, or put on robo-phase blade and walk-fight your opponent. ;)


    Melee/Bear Sorceress


    -Trapping your opponent in Shockwave can be effective as well, just like the Necromancer fight; remember that when you run off of their screen and provoke chase that it is the perfect opportunity to lay down a Shockwave field in their direction (65% of the time they will land in it and be stunlocked).

    ***Also, after Shockwave, remember to time your movements from standing to running so that you leave your standing position immediately when they Teleport on top of you; this ensures that they won't hit you, and they'll probably get annoyed after awhile and ruin their own strategy by giving chase again (which allows for another attempt at a Shock Wave Trap).


    *currently being edited, rest up soon*
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  2. Jary

    Jary IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Very interesting build. I like the creativity.

    My suggestions:
    cut cyclone armor & poison creeper in favor of more fire damage. Cyclone really wont save you from much of anything in the dueling world, even Windies with lvl45+ synergies can tank maybe one FB. Go for the damage and keep your SB items when you need.
    For your inventory, I'd go all Summon/Lifers. The tradeoff on AR/Damage wont be as bad since HoW will boost you as well, but the main thing is to get your grizzly even stronger. +4 Skills will go a long ways, once your damage is at the point where you can one-hit most Bowazons and non-MS Sorcs you're sitting pretty good.

    I like the build for being able to get in and fight-- gives you sort of a double threat, instead of relying on only finess and shockwave. The downside of course is being in the 3-5k (?) life range vs 9k+ being a straight Summon caster or FC, which can make it a lil more dangerous.
    Using a Shock-Summoner for several years my least favorite matchups were Hammerdins, Smiters & WW barbs.. in the past I had some success switching in bramble/eBotd against the ladder; Hammers was all about switching HoW and teleporting like a maniac, if I' was lucky I could take out the weaker ones but any gg would just beat me up bad >.> My question for this build is... what matchups does it improve of those aforementioned? Which ones become easier and/or what are your worst matchups? For example, I'd expect your Windy matchup to become tougher but your Necro matchup could get easier with Fireclaw at your disposal ^^ Nice build
  3. vknez

    vknez IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    your life and block rate is crap, you have low dr, you are slow, your damage is low and blockable/reducable. you cant beat any semi serious pvp char
    shockwave is blockable...
    what the hell you gona smack with wizzy?
    you use gris caddy with 5 fpa instead of 4 fpa pb with 30 @...
    doom,botd useless as attack weapon (read very slow)
    max/ar charms useless on build
    +1 poison creeper for what?
    cyclone armor last how long? 1 sec?
    1-3 shot other characters? give me a break. glass cannon bowas yes, but thing is you cant aproach her alive...
    10 k damage on your grizzly is unrealistic with your set up. try this calculator:

    http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/druid_pet_calculator.html
  4. Octogenarian

    Octogenarian IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    life/block rate: if you can't avoid attacks well enough when you have 99%/163% fcr then you shouldn't be playing this character; it is extremely mobile while teleporting (even to the point where i can kite glass cannon arrows) and i block extremely often, actually.

    shockwave: whether or not it's blockable is not the issue; the fhr lock alone is still worth the investment and this skill has saved my *** in almost every fight, even against maxblock characters.

    wizzy/doom/botd: if you forgot how to read maybe you should scroll up and check out the character name. this is a hybrid character and doom/wizzy are both extremely viable as pure shock summoner setup if i ever need to bounce to it; wizzy lets me hit the 163% fcr breakpoint for shock summon setup, doom is mega bm vs any amazon and hammerdin as a caster weapon (why would i choose a weapon with 30% ias to melee with), and breath of the dying zerker has the highest attack rating of all my weapons (33k fully buffed and 11k damage) and swings pretty god damn fast compared to a grief or last wish (who the **** says botd is a bad weapon?).

    max/ar charms: yeah so you divide your total damage into two sections (physical and fire damage) because this is a HYBRID character, right? Then adding bonuses to each damage classification must improve your damage as a whole substantially, so therefore adding more maximum physical damage would actually be beneficial!? *gasp* When considering i use a level 40 fireclaw that has a 605% attack rating multiplier (not even going to go into damage with you), any attack rating is going to be worth the investment, especially on smallcharms (derp derp).


    ****attack rating multiplier example for the cave man:


    3max damage/16 ar/15 life small charm

    605% attack rating modifier from Fire Claws

    (16*6.05)

    96.8 attack rating


    now let's toss my heart of wolverine multipliers in there:

    3max damage/16 ar/15 life small charm

    312% attack rating modifier from Heart of Wolverine

    605% attack rating modifier from Fire Claws

    (16*9.17)

    146.72 attack rating

    that's a 130.72 point increase from the 16 attack rating on the small charm, and means i get just over 9x more attack rating from every point; maybe you should have taken the college prep math courses at your high school, squiddo****


    poison creeper: for lulz when nk'ing of course

    cyclone armor: turns a 1 shot fireball sorc into a 2 shot fireball sorc with even one point

    1-3 shot characters: mother****er i've 2 shot barbs and smiters with my grizzly bear; after all of the damage modifiers (level 42-45 heart of wolverine = duh?) that can be added to it 10.6k is completely attainable as an average for bear smite and guess what, i calculated it with the link you sent me too :/, and i even used it before about a year ago when i made this thing. also this unapproachable glass cannon zon that you've mentioned = lol; negro i stomp them in the dirt.

    you should learn more about the game before you flame somebody's post; i've curbstomped modding necs harder than edward norton in american history x, and i did it with this summon druid. get on my level fat man


  5. Octogenarian

    Octogenarian IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Yeah I've been considering dropping the two for a long time, I just feel naked without them haha; I used to roll without a split inventory and used 9x summon/lifers (kinda miss it). I think you are right about this though and Summon Grizzly damage jumps up by about 325 per skill point, so another 1200 would put him at 6.6k base damage without hoto/soj on even; very good idea.

    My hp usually hovers around 4k depending on my gear setup and is actually entirely manageable in pvp if you know how to avoid ranged attacks, but I am trying to concoct a way to increase my hp right now and am about to make some permanent upgrades to my low-end lifer gcs. It really is annoying to divide this into a more offensive hybrid because you do sacrifice a lot; as pure shock summoner i could hit 9.6k+ hp, but I'd have zero offensive potential (i'm sure you know already seeing as you've played one) and it gets old after awhile without being able to attack yourself.

    As for the questions you asked:

    What matchups does it improve of those aforementioned (namely Hammerdins/Smiters/WW Barbs)?

    vs Hammerdin:

    -definitely makes these guys more approachable; when you drop the skill points from Summon Grizzly's HP synergies you have to rely on recasting bear a lot because he can't take many hits, but making your bear into pure damage can really help with positioning opponents, especially hammerdins, sorceresses, smiters and necromancers.

    -i like to use my bear as a meat shield for just about every ranged attack/telestomp (as well as charge), and this is done by recasting the bear on/around my position and forcing the opponent to choose an approachable route to attack me. By recasting bear you can "herd" your opponent where you want them to go in a fashion; it can also save your life if you cast it on top of yourself/where you're going to be (if running) when a hammerdin goes to telestomp, and instead he'll kill your bear (much like necro/clay golem tactic).

    -teleporting is great for mobility, which is definitely important in this fight, but keep in mind that hammerdins are meant to telestomp people while taking as minimal damage as possible so switching it up with some shapeshifting/running can help a lot. By running around more you also give yourself the option to aim your bear casts more accurately at hammerdins' blindspot (underneath their feet and slightly left of their central axis) instead of constantly teleporting and resetting your bear's position.

    -with 28k+ ar you and your bear should both be able to take out hammerdins more easily than you would as pure shock summoner. i've had many make the mistake of teleporting directly on me; i just run below them and loop back up to the blindspot, swingin' hard. just be careful that you don't lose your Heart of Wolverine when you go to attack, it is very unlikely that you will be able to make contact through holy shield without it.


    vs Smiters

    -Kiting smiters is very important with this setup, so i prefer to stay in bearform in this fight unless it is an emergency and i need to be mobile asap. By using the swamp water pools in the moor you can effectively run in tightly-looped circles without coming in direct contact with your opponent, and there are usually many of them next to each other (just kite them through it like a maze); you also want to keep your bear in mind for this fight because he is your only offense against a smiter. i like to kite them in circles around my bear while constantly turning 180/shockwaving him to keep my distance at all times, if the hits connect easily i can down said smiter in 2-3 bear swings but if not, it's either a long fight or you're **** outta luck (it's a smiter whatcha gonna do :/).


    vs WW Barbs:

    Still can't kill em (unless they are terrible).


    As for my worst matchups:
    1-WW Barb (gl hitting at all)
    2-Wind Druid (gl getting thru summons)
    3-WW/Trap Sin (mind blast ****s you)
    4-Smiter (50/50 depends on how good they are)

    *Necro becomes way easier with fireclaw; if you can kite them with teleport until they follow you willingly you can easily stop, shift, turn around, and spam shockwave to surprise them with an inescapable trap (if they land in your shock).


  6. Orion

    Orion IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    I gotta give points for style on this one :)

    Mines PVM and very similar. I have no pts in cyclone or creeper though.

    Cast Bear on top of pally then run at pally and shockwave him before clawing him.


    My bear never dies with this setup. Strong build.
  7. Octogenarian

    Octogenarian IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Thanks ;)

    About to drop Cyclone Armor and Poison Creeper for another damage test, actually haha; I'm looking to get a high ias fool's weapon (maybe phaseblade if the damage is good enough) to counteract low attack rating right now, it seems like it could be really viable with an AR boost of 1485+

    FC 605% ar --> 6.05 multiplier
    HoW 312% ar -->3.12 multiplier
    -->9.17 total multiplier

    (9.17)1485=13,617.45 total attack rating achieved from weapon after bonuses


    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011
  8. Jary

    Jary IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Hey, try stashing Bramble for WW barbs!! I had a lot of success... sort of more toward the end of my days, running it with eBotdZ/SS, if you continually recast your bear ontop of yourself and make sure to follow ontop it, you can really make the match very favorable. I'd give it a try and let me know what you think.
    And that's a good point vs Hammerdins & Smiters. Lol, its just Guerilla War against them, not always pretty but whatever gets the job done!
    I feel old... but here's the only vid I had which had a few scenes of me rocking Bramble vs some Barbs and melee mixed in if you care ^^
    Post some screens or clips later if you can!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V5apO3_rGw



  9. Octogenarian

    Octogenarian IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Gg video I've seen it before; I watched it right before I made mine haha

    Yeah I could definitely kill WW Barbs as pure Shock Summoner with the gear I have but since I'm not I'll have to do some thinking because my bear's hp even with oak is much lower than a pure build's and it doesn't survive most of whirlwind's duration, but it definitely looks viable if i had bramble on; I might have to be trickier with my placement too

    I'm going to post a video soon once I get everything and cut it together, and i'll post some s/s too.


  10. Orion

    Orion IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Bramble would do the trick with WW Barbs - definitely.

    Mine is PVM - I use 3 Weps - Botd PB for stats/speed, up'd ribby for cb, and a shaeled Azurewrath with close to per stats for fun/plus skil. I think it would help vs necro summoners too. Griz caddy is probably good fast wep that you use most often tho - 15ias faster than my Botd PB!

    Grab an AR/Life charm or 2 - to up your stats for hits/def
  11. vknez

    vknez IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    smiter 50:50, hehe. i guess they are some pvm tristram builds...
    any random equiped semi skiled will kill you in 2-3 smites thanks to your low life/dr. smite/charge is uninterubtible btw...

    cave man? you want last long here with that attitude...
    i sad max/ar/life are useles cause max dmg will not give you any extra for that build

    also i m not negro...

    you tele stomp bowas? nice. they are crap if you managed these. multi will take care of your sumons fast...

    also i m not fat man...

    i see you dont know how fhr lock is working, and you are not aware of wsg



  12. Orion

    Orion IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Unbelievable that his post was flamed. Bad manners and a Bad attitude. Too bad you can't SQUELCH the guy like in GAME. The guy won't leave - it's like he's here to stalk you omg --- squelch, squelch .......isn't working!!!

    Octogenarian - just fine tune this Bear with some of the HELPFUL and
    INSIGHTFUL information given. Jary knows his stuff when it comes to bears.
    The fact is that you know your FC/Summoner better than any of us due to the fact that
    you have different equipment and a different setup. My stats/skills are slightly different than yours and my equipment is alot different. My dex is up there with Botd PB, Black oak luna, 2 Ravens, Mara, anni/torch. I wear a COH, Jalals, Venom Grips, Gores, and Arach.


    I love the BOTD PB in PVM for FC - not sure how that would translate to PVP because I haven't tried it against any good players. I beat a couple of people up with mine in PVP but they were not PVP seasoned nor am I. I did the same think to them - I summoned Griz on top of them and ran up SW and beat em till they dropped which is the most likely PVP stategy for me at the time. Which was right after we beat Baal and decided to try and kill each other lol. But it pumped up my ego that day lol. So I know this works especially if you get used to the strategy in PVP.

    BTW in my build, I left out the FCR. I have way less than you. Is is worth the trade off and are you casting summons that much faster? I have spirit shield (27 fcr) and Dark Clan Crusher on switch - for summoning and casting, plus arachnid - that was it - no other source of FCR on my Bear.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
  13. vknez

    vknez IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    i m not flaming and calling names...

    i m only playing pvp last few years on europe non ladder, after few years of single player pvm and few years of pvm bnet. at the moment i have those pvp chars:
    fury/rabies lvl 94
    bow hybrid lvl 94
    wolfbarb lvl 93
    zerker lvl 94
    bvb lvl 91
    bvc lvl 91
    liberator (hammer/charge) lvl 92
    smiter lvl 89
    ghost lvl 92
    bearzon lvl 90
    assa bear lvl 90
    infinity nova lvl 90
    fire tal lvl 89
    necro nova lvl 90
    zealot lvl 90

    all those chars are fully equiped. i played some chars before, but dished them:
    boner
    winder
    pure hammer
    fireclaws
    zeal/bear sorc
    trapper
    fire druid
    blizzard sorc

    so i have wide knowledge of what diablo chars can and can not do in pvp.

    this will not work in real pvp situation, vs any char...
    spirit is bad as blocking shield since it dont have any faster block on it
    tele around with grizly, recast to bear, shockwave people...it takes time, and during that time oponent will not just stand still waiting to be smacked...



  14. Octogenarian

    Octogenarian IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Dude you obviously have never encountered Shockwave before in PvP. It doesn't matter if a smiter can kill me in 2 shots, he can't get near me without charging and i'm going to be Shockwaving anyway to halt that; are you expecting that I'm going to just stand still and let your Smite hit me?. It prevents them from getting to me 95% of the time i spam it and kite them; I don't know where you are coming to these conclusions that your character is immune to it, it works just as well as an interupt against 40,000+ defensive rating eth-exile smiters that 2 shot mother****ers (who doesn't die to an insanely geared/probably modding smiter?). I even use it to stop desynched chargers from invisi-slapping me all the time. The point is I've used it to keep smite/chargers at a distance from me on a daily basis for almost a year with great success, why don't you watch Jary's video and actually see the skill in action.

    Max Damage does affect the build; half of the damage I output is physical (i.e. dependent on weapon damage to scale), so adding maximum physical damage from the small charm actually does affect how high my top-end damage can grow to because I am not pure Fire Claws and rely on both my weapon damage as well as my Fire Claws damage to achieve maximum output. In this setup the damage bonus from Fire Claws is substantially lower than it would be normally as a pure FC Druid, so it is a must that I use a melee weapon (and some melee small charms) to be effective.

    Also avoiding multi arrow is as simple as teleporting to multi's max range or even teleporting in a clockwise/counter-clockwise movement at any range around the amazon (this even lets your bear take swings at her while you're avoiding her shots).

    WSG isn't as effective while you are using charge against Shockwave; you would be constanstly shifting between charging, being interupted, weapon switching, charging and on top of that I'm throwing an FHR lock at you which is definitely going to be more effective if you are switching to your BO gear setup a lot (i.e. using WSG), so it's definitely going to hit you at least once in the time it takes for you to get near me during your keyspam and one good Shockwave is all I need to start moving away from you (plus I can just pivot around you near some moor puddles and be good2go :/). It is possible if you use smite against me instead and run/WSG to get through Shockwave, but again you keep thinking that I'm going to be standing still the whole time waiting for you to stroll up and hit me. I guess that super-intelligent battle strategy from the 1700's that started somewhere in Europe (standing two armies in a field that take turns marching/shooting each other right out in the open) carried down the genetic ladder and got stuck with some kid playing the most easy-mode character on Diablo 2 (stand still so I can swing at you bro).


  15. Octogenarian

    Octogenarian IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Yeah I have a BOTD PB for the IAS breakpoint and it's pretty legit, but the eth zerk is still better overall because of the higher damage. Epic story lol, it's the best feeling ever when you KO somebody with it

    For PvM FCR isn't as necessary for the build, but I still use it when I glitch rush people and nothing ever hits me because i can stun most of a full room of monsters in like 2-3 seconds; the trade-off for FCR benefit from your other equipment becomes much better with an enigma (way more mobile with teleport) and yes you do summon much faster, which does save time if your summons die in PvP and you are being chased/have to re-summon at the same time.


    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
  16. Octogenarian

    Octogenarian IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    vknez
    Why you haven't thought about this in your earlier posts especially in relation to any of the hypothetical situations you've said to me, I'll never know.
  17. vknez

    vknez IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    smiters dont need to use wsg, smite/charge is uninteruptable
    i see you never encountered telesmite
    from your posts i see you have poor knowleadge of pvp.

    your physical damage with botd is augumented by werebear casting skill level, how level and total strength and it is around 850-2500 (without deadly which you dont have on equipment). average damage is around 1700, and average pvp damage is 350. this is usually further reduced by 50 % from oponents dr to 175.
    so 140 average pvp physical damage is really low. removing those 2*3 max scs will lower your maximum pvp physical dmg by 6 pvp dmg...

    and thats all counting that HOW is alive, which will die preaty easily (even high lvl) in one hit. without HOW your average pvp damage is 160 reduced to 80 with 50 % dr...
    and thats with botd 403 ed berserker axe as you stated, which is turbo slow hiting 9 fpa with your equipment (vs 110 ias pb which is more then twicer fast)
  18. Octogenarian

    Octogenarian IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Charge isn't uninteruptable, make a game on east and I'll show you real well; I use it to keep paladins from getting to me all the time, and how are you talking **** about a character I play constantly as if you know everything when you have no knowledge or experience pertaining to playing as/against the character for yourself. Also, telesmiters weren't a part of the conversation we've been having at all, so why pull them out of the blue now? Everybody gets stomped by telesmiters; 95% of them use auto-aim so it doesn't even matter. You just seem like you want a reason to be pissed off at somebody

    850-2500 damage on a botd after all those modifiers? LOL

    Dude with a 403% ebotdz regular attack that has bearform and average level HoW multiplier i hit for 1449-4422 damage; that's a 2,935 damage average, equating to 645.1 PvP damage. After opponents' Damage Reduction I do 322.56 damage with a regular attack, NOT 140; your calculations are off by more than double your listed average damage amount.

    I'll even calculate the additional Fire Claws damage for you since you need somebody to hold your hand through remedial arithmetic and statistical calculations:

    Fire Claws hits for 6788-7439 additional fire damage; that's a 7113.5 fire damage average with 1778.38 PvP fire damage.

    Overall Raw PvP Damage after modifiers and DR negations: 322.56+1778.38= 2100.94

    Btw HoW is amazingly quick and easy to recast (duh summoner) so if it dies why wouldn't I just throw up another? Losing it even gives me a chance to throw up Oak Sage for survivability. :coffee:

    Properly Explained* Max Damage modifiers:
    Max Damage is effectively useful on this type of bear because all damage modifiers that are skills affect your total weapon damage only after it has been calculated from your own stats in addition to your gear's stats; Max Damage is useful to me because I have a high damage modifier: 690% damage with fanat from Beast (at least 504% otherwise), which works out to

    [6.90*(Whatever my weapon damage range is, which is comprised of Max and Min Damage)]

    **Because my Max and Min Damage are both calculated into an overall damage statistic, they can both be affected individually by additional +Max/Min Damage from gear (i.e. the small charms you mentioned) and, in turn, may be modified by previously mentioned damage modifiers (such as HoW or Bearform). So:

    [6.90(1.0)] = 6.90?!?
    ^
    1 extra point of Max Damage = 6.90 points of Max Damage after HoW/Bearform

    So that +3 Max Damage on my ar/hp Small Charm you knocked actually ends up being 20.7 max damage, yielding a higher Overall Damage Average as well as extra Max Damage.

    Also, you argue a 110% ias pb is greater than an ebotdz just because it's faster, but 110 pb only works effectively with pure fireclaw; I do significantly less fire damage than a pure build so I must rely on a weapon with at least some damage on it (not a 110 pb). My favorite part about your argument is that you didn't even look to see that I do have a 110% ias gris caddy (gcaddy > pb because it actually has some damage to multiply from), and it is used quite frequently/successfully.

    It really seems that you made a lot of mistakes when trying to determine my own damage for me; I'm sure many of them went like this: assuming that my listed base stats actually included any extra points I might receive from my gear, not reading/logically processing/understanding the point of this post, not researching/acknowledging/understanding my very neatly written build/gear lists when arguing against my post (for some reason) using invalid calculations, and being a stereotypical, rude, snotty European.

    P.S. - Twicer isn't a word


    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  19. Orion

    Orion IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    Octogenarian

    I read yours clearly. A EBOTDZ adds a heap of damage to a FC build(making if effective). For that fast paw - 110ias Griz Caddy > 110ias PB because of the stats/damage. Good points on both! I'm likin' your foresight in picking weps! I might be makin an EBOTDZ to check this out.


    Orion
    Vkinez
    I use a Azurewrath// Black Oak Luna Shield w/ 50% FBR BTW as primary. Spirit/Dark Clan Crusher - on switch- just to summon (clearly in my post). Also kill bosses with up'd ribby. But EBOTD PB is my fastest but the least used. I beat the barbs with the Shael'd Azurewrath. Not bad for a PVM Bear. But what I didn't say is that my merc is a lvl 94 barb with LW PB, Shaft, Arreats (all crap but the mods rock). Thats why I want the EBOTDZ - Might, HOW, WB, FC = lotsa damage! + lifetap.


    Noob Barbs tele around people - what are you smokin? Misquoting people and making up the rest? Man - Stalk some other people --- SQELCH!
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  20. stephan

    stephan IncGamers Member

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    Re: PvP Fireclaw/Shock Summoner Hybrid

    All these calculations are incorrect. PvP penalty reduces damage to 1/6 (17% really). 3000 average damage become 510 PvP damage or 255 after %DR. 7200 fire damage becomes 1224 fire damage which is 306 fire damage against someone with normal res (if he doesn't choose to increase his max res).

    Total average damage is therefor around ~550. Assuming your original figures are correct.



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