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Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by safetypro, Dec 1, 2008. | Replies: 16 | Views: 1925

  1. safetypro

    safetypro IncGamers Member

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    Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Hiya folks,
    I'm a seasoned D2 player and in each of the last 2 ladder seasons I've built a Summon Necromancer. I decided after acquiring the remaining Trang set pieces that I'd like to build another this ladder however, I'm tired of the old Fishymancer build and am contemplating making a change. I've heard that the Trang set is good on Poisonmancers, that said I'm not very well versed on how a Poisonmancer goes about his business. I've read several poison and summon guides but am still unclear on a few things:

    1. It appears that poison nova is the primary skill on a Poisonmancer. How does this work? How effective is it at killing and how long does it take?

    2. Would Poison Dagger be a viable route to take if I could acquire a Blackbog's Sharp?

    3. By investing 60 points into the poison tree, how effective will the skeletons be without Skeletal Mastery maxed?

    4. Is Death's Web a must for this build or would AoKL still be the weapon with which to summon on switch or use on main switch?

    5. Should I still try and obtain Beast for the Fanatism Aura?

    6. What Golem should I invest in and how many points?

    Please keep in mind that I intend to use the Trang set irrespective of my decision on which build to use.

    I'll probably think of a few more questions as I go.

    Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to answer my questions.:thumbup:
  2. Tarantella

    Tarantella IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Twenty skill points in raise skeleton plus Trang set bonuses plus Aokl plus +2 to all skills amulet will give your summons good survivability as a shield but the main (but not insurmountable) problem with getting most damage from such a build is that lower resist does not help the physical damage of the skeletons.

    However in balance to this maximising + to all skills can give firewall damage in excess of 2k per second.
  3. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Killing depends on monster Strength. Depending on gear you are looking at between two and five Novas to kill in Hell Players 8. Kills quickly.


    Depends on what you mean viable. You can go around and stab things with the dagger. Your damage will be good. The build should be able to beat Hell.


    Decent tanks, but don't expect them to be as sturdy or damaging as normal Skellies. You are looking at about 1k health.


    D-web kills so much faster that it is really the only way to go. You need the speed. AoKL will still be on switch for your army.


    No. No reason since you'll be holding D-web.


    Clay. Put in one point.



  4. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    You'll have to specialize in one, and have the other on the side. Focus on summon will just make a summonamancer who adds a little to the dps py spamming nova, and a poisonmancer will focus on nova and have skeles as meat shields/a place to dump remaining points.

    1. Huge radius, easy to hit with. Very instant damage, it's not as if you have to check your watch in order for your enemies to die. It's 2 seconds (unless you have -epr%). In the beginning mana cost is big but at high levels or with insight its no problem.

    2. Before I got to level 30 I used poison dagger + pe. It was kinda effective, although i did die alot (and every time someone mentions stunlock I think of my pre-30 poison nec).
    You'll want to use PE against crowds. The problem with the 2 skills are the damage, nor is it the time it takes for enemies to die. It's the flexibility. When the beginner-easiness was wearing out and I really needed p-nova badly, around level 27-29, this is a common encounter against a group:

    "Wow, all those enemies. It would feel so good watching them all walk through the clouds from a pe and then die. I'll run towards them, try to stab one, then cast pe on the corpse and make the remaining ones walk through the cloud (the cloud radius is so small you have to make enemies walk through it). Now I'll just stab that abominable and... *smash* oh no, hit recovery, *smash* here comes his friends *smash* must *smash* get out of *smash* hit recovery *smash* dead."

    "Now I finally killed an Abominable. I worked really hard for this corpse. PE! Come abominables, go through the clouds! No, not that way, go on top of your friends corpse. Come one, through the clouds! No, they all passed it *smash* *smash* *smash* dead."

    Also, sometimes the corpse appears in the corner, making it impossible to lead the enemies through it. Just stabbing all of them is annoying too, since its only 1 at a time. Although when I did get the poison nova, it was much more comfortable, but I still got frystrated by the fact that even though poison nova was aoe, had a big radius and didn't require a corpse (flexibility) it did very little damage/mana compared to poison dagger. It was very annoying watching a single undead (usually poison resistant) walking towards you, and you have to lower res once and pnova thrice, and you've lost 80 mana. Against crowds the mana seems better though, since you kill so many. Blackbogs is good against single enemies. God, I hated pnova vs single enemies, due to all that mana into so many projectiles, and only 1 hits the enemy. Using blackbogs is ok, but deaths web is better.

    3. Meat shields. But don't care, you're a caster with some few-point wonders. Skeles aren't supposed to kill.

    4. If you focus on skeletons, its just a skelemancer with nova as an little extra punch. D-web all the way.

    5. Poison is your main, stick to it

    6. Clay golem with 1 point summon res. 1 point in all only.

    The poisonamcer is a good build, that can handle stuff quite nicely. It's not really a non-cookiecutter, but not a cookiecutter either. It's a main necromancer build that can lay waste to crowds. With good gear, quite much any enemy will die from 1 nova, and nova has a huge radius (look at youtube and see what i mean). I love how you don't need to aim nova. As soon as you see an enemy, right clock, and it's poisoned
  5. safetypro

    safetypro IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Excellent responses thank you.

    I especially like Lumpor's very descriptive answer to #2.:thumbup:

    So I gather Poison Nova is mana intensive. I was chatting with a friend online last evening and he was talking about using an Iron Golem made from an Insight Polearm. I'm assuming that you'd want to use Infinity or another runeword on you merc so is this a viable option, or should I just equip my act 2 Might Merc with Insight?
  6. NumtyDoo

    NumtyDoo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    I would just use an insight on merc. A lot of fishy's make an insight golem because they have enough skill points left over to max golem mastery. Poison/summon will not have those extra skill points and your IG will be very weak.
  7. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Infinity won't really benefit a poisonmancer. Unless you're leaning towards the skele side of course, which I don't recommend.

    Mana problems are probably only in the mid levels though. I came to level 42 with my poisonmancer, and I think that at high levels it's less of a problem. If your merc uses insight it's no problem at all. If you have deaths web it's a very little problem (7-12 mana after each kill). With many characters I've had mana problems in the beginning, but then I got bigger mana pool and the problems decreased by alot.

    Wither insight or deaths web solves your mana problems, and it's not that big at high levels otherwise either (especially with +mana charms)
  8. Blazelight

    Blazelight IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    I made my nova mancer about a month ago (with some help from the guys above :) and can only say,

    WOAW! in a good way.

    Im gonne tell you a secrete, this is not a Boss runner, but an area clearer, wich makes him amazing for socket hunting.
    Im not saying you cant kill bosses, beceaus you can, with great ease.

    Example, Hell Travincial. 1-2, mabey 3 nova max kills entire consil.

    Or those knights in CS 1 nova

    Everything under act 4, 1 nova.

    You can break resist with your lower resist spell!! and have the most amazing 1 points spell in game, Corpse exp, wich does fire dmg making you a dual element build with 1 point!

    I could jabber on for Hours, but m8t, go for nova mancer, on one condition, your need a Death Web. Hehe.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2008
  9. Demoquin

    Demoquin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    When would be a good time to allocate points into CE and/or Amp Dmg? I am lvl 55 already with only 1 pt into CE while i am nearing complete PD and almost PN. PE is around 10 or so.



    This was the only character i actually LOVED doing Maggots Lair lol. Cast Clay Golem and let the scarabs hit him while i Nova and/ or Poisoin Explode the rest.


    Low lvls Mana per kill is your best friend. I had a Blade with 5/ kill and that unique bone shield with 4-5/ kill.


    Also how much do you put into Stats? Specificly DEX and ENG? ( I do not have death web, but have 3 pc Trang)
  10. safetypro

    safetypro IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    OK I'm convinced....a Poison/Summoner Necro it is. :crazyeyes:
    Thanks again guys for the very descriptive replies. I'm working hard to acquire a Death's Web. Holy Cow these things are hard to get! I have a bid in on a perfect 2/2/-50...wish me luck. :alright:

    Here's what I am planning:

    Summon Tree
    1 SM
    20 RS
    1 CG
    1 GM
    1 SR

    P&B Tree
    1 Teeth
    1 CE
    20 DD
    20 PE
    20 PN

    Curses
    1 AD
    1 Weaken
    1 Terror
    1 IM
    1 LT
    1 Decrepify
    1 LR

    Total 93 skill points done lvl 82

    1. Would extra points be best spent in Summon Mastery, Corpse Explosion or Lower Resist?

    2. Would another Golem be advantageous, if so which?
  11. Blazelight

    Blazelight IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Depends on + skill, as long as you hit 10 in lower resist ( information stolen from lumpor ).
    I think in your case i would say summon mastery since your skellies wont be worth anything withouth it.

    But m8t, wy dont you just take Revive with 1 point? Revive's with low points work ALLOT better as meat shield.

    Invest the rest in either your golem for an UBER tank, or corpse explosion for more range on it.
  12. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Yes, as blazelight said, 10 is a must, although with trang gloves, torch, anni, deaths web, duals SoJ and battle command you'll automatically reach a level 12 lower resist with 1 hard point. If you use necromancer's items instead of venomous items, you'll get even more. After +skills, you should aim for 10, 15 or 26, although only use spare points for this if you want to push your damage a tiny bit further.

    I would max at least 2 poison skills before maxing skeletons, so you won't be helpless when your skeletons are losing strength and you don't have a strong nova to replace them. I'd say spare points go to either dim vision, lower resist or skele mastery.

    Just use a 3 point golem and forget all about putting skills in golems.

    Also, you may think that immunes can be a problem, but they're actually not. Here's a step process for poison immunes.

    1. Lower resist

    Won't break the enemy?

    2. CE

    Not enough corpses?

    3. Skeletons + mercenary + firewall (form trangs)

    Even if you come all the way to step 3 it isnt that bad. Firewall has no synergies (mastery doesn't count as synergy) so it isn't that bad when used by another class.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2008
  13. safetypro

    safetypro IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Good strategy....thanks
    I finally acquired my Death's Web (2/2/-49/11/11...:alright:) and will continue leveling my Necro. I've decided to focus on the summon tree until finished and then blitzkrieg the P&B tree. That way I'll be able to rely on my army through normal and nightmare whilst I learn to use my Poison Skills.

    Since this is a hybrid build, I was planning to acquire 3 each summon and P&B skill GCs and use a +2 all skill amulet as apposed to a +3 individual tree to provide overall skill balance. This won't be difficult as the projected resists from my gear will leave me a measly 11 lightning resist short of maximum. I will try and fix that with another amulet or a lightning resist sc.

    I've decided to socket the trang shield with Eld after reading another post in the forum. I'll require less dex to achieve max block that way...or as I gather from other posts...."we're not really sure how the vampire blocks".....LOL

    That leaves potential free sockets in the Death's Web, Trang Helm and Trang armor. Should I aim to socket them all with Poison Facets or do I have enough - to poison resistance and use the sockets to focus on other attributes (like dexterity)?

    Thanks again for the replies to my questions.:thumbup:



  14. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    There actually is nothing called a poison/summon hybrid. Since the poisonmancer has so many spare points, there isn't a pure poisonmancer. You should rename it "Poisonmancer with spare points in summoning tree).

    Your skeletons will be weak. I really don't recommend caring at all about the skeletons. You're a caster. A poisonmancer. I mean, you've made lots of skelemancers before.

    The poisonmancer is a caster charater with spell-based damage really. I really don't recommend summon GCs or getting necromancer's just to boost skeletons.

    Just like a bonemancer focuses on bone spells and gets caster gear, the poisnmancer does the same, except it has some spare points to get some makeshift meatshields, since there isn't really anything else good spending points on.
  15. safetypro

    safetypro IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Makes perfect sense lumpor. Thanks once again.

    A couple new questions....sorry but these ones are really bugging me and I can't seem to find the answers (well not to my full understanding anyways).

    1. I've read a little about achieving max block in Vampire form. here's the quote from the Mouldy Tome:
    This has me really confused (which isn't hard.....LOL) Is this strictly related to the animation or is the block actually affected by the FHR. In other words, am I wasting attribute points into dexterity to achieve max block?

    2. Do poison damage charms increase the effect of poison skills? (example.. a 100 pdsc)
  16. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    All elemental damage from items are carried by range and melee only, except that the explosions from exploding arrows and freezing arrows carry fire damage (for exploding) and cold damage (for freezing)

    Do get max block, and be sure to always walk instead of running so you get max block all the time while still maintaining the same speed
  17. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: Poison/Summoner or Plain Summoner?

    Strictly for the animation, you still need Dex to get max block.



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