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Pharphis's 75K /p3 AT run thread - Help needed!

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by pharphis, Sep 9, 2012. | Replies: 198 | Views: 9782

  1. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    Pharphis's 75K AT run thread - Help needed!

    You read that correctly. I want a 99er from AT, as well as at least one Tyrael's (hopefully 20). Now, my other goals are to perfect the grail as high as I can manage, and ethereal grail as well.

    This is hardcore, so I may be a bit slower than most crazy AT runners, but I'm looking mostly for equipment advice, as well as some stats on bosspacks/map. Also keep in mind that I run a bit slower because I try to kill the bulk of the pack, too, rather than just tele as soon as I see the boss is dead. I'll edit in a video sometime soon to show what my runs (and map) are like.

    For now, I'll post my current equipment:
    shako (topaz)
    eth skullder's (topaz)
    wizzy (ist)
    arachs
    chancies (38?)
    war trav (48?)
    tal's ammy (need mara's)
    crappy res/mf rings

    I'm not self-found so I'm willing to trade for replacements. My goals are to maintain 500+ mf (currently 510 with charms?), 105 fcr, and 75 lite/cold res, with positive res for fire/lite. My kill speed DOES need improvement, and my blizz dmg is only about 4k.

    My current run average with 1100 runs (since lvl 96) is 52 seconds, and I would estimate 5+ bosspacks per run on average. I plan to obtain an actual count over 100 runs once I reach 97.

    Thanks for your help and encouragement you crazy folk!

    Edit: It's actually more runs than that. I forgot the correct number when I made this.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  2. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    Death Fathom is a must! And try to compensate lost res with charms. If you are wealthy to trade for them (and they are available for trade) I guess it's totally worth it for speed. Ooooh then you need to compensate the lost FCR also...

    Too sleepy to think much. Try checking froz's and nagi's AT sorcs from MFO Meet the Olympians threads (recent one for froz's and some old one for nagi's :p).
  3. SunsetVista

    SunsetVista IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pharphis's 75K /p3 AT run thread - Help needed!<iframe src=http://hkbbs.hehagame.

    I'll contribute what I can, but you are farther along the AT path than I am.

    My blizzsorc uses 3 piece tal's: belt, armor, amulet. I only have one Skullder's, and it's on my cow zon, so I'm not sure which setup is really better.

    Looks like you might be able to get some more fcr from the rings while keeping high resists. What about the shield? Is it spirit or something else?

    What about the merc? Will you kill cold immunes or leave them?

    The most dangerous things are of course conviction lightning mage boss packs, fanaticism invaders if they sneak up on you and the occasional cold enchanted explosion. If you have to go down to 400 mf for the resists, I'd do it even in softcore since one death would set you back by so many runs.

    GL!
  4. EightDigitSin

    EightDigitSin IncGamers Member

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    I am not a big fan of "stacking" MF like that. I always try to go get to 300 ish MF and then focus on kill speed and survivability. In your case survivability and kill speed is even more important since you are going for 99 on HC, at p3 setting.

    I find that 3 Tal piece set up is optimal for MF blizzsorc. At least for me anyway. I use Death's Fathom with cold facet, Trang gloves for fcr and cold res, 10 fcr rare ring with res, SOJ, 35 fcr spirit, shako with ptopaz, and rare boots with 30FRW/Dual res/MF boots.
    With some mf charms and gheeds I sit at exactly at 300 mf/105fcr/60fhr/7k blizz. I use 3 cold skillers as well.

    This set up gives me the perfect balance between kill speed, MF, and survivability. HOTO might be a better choice if you want to max out your resistances. It also gives you an option to swap out your fcr ring for soj or your gloves for chancies. But since you are experienced AT runner and know how to stay alive, you might as well go for more damage. Up to you ;)
  5. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    Well, I don't have a DF, or any SOJs, and doubt I'll be able to get those through trade, but I'll give it a shot, I think.

    I could make a HOTO or 2, though. Thanks!
  6. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    pharphis, regarding the 3 Tyrael's goal:

    Assuming 510 MF, 4 Bosses, 6 Champions and 18 Minions killed per run, after 75000 runs:

    Chance of finding 0 Tyrael's: 26.65%
    Chance of finding 1 Tyrael's: 35.24%
    Chance of finding 2 Tyrael's: 23.30%
    Chance of finding 3 Tyrael's: 10.27%
    Chance of finding 4 Tyrael's: 3.40%
    Chance of finding 5+ Tyrael's: 1.14%

    Average number of Tyrael's found: 1.32

    Manage your expectations accordingly. Of course, I would bet good money against anyone completing 75000 p3 AT runs in the first place, never mind in HC. That said, good luck :)
  7. zaphodbrx

    zaphodbrx IncGamers Member

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    75k runs is a crazy idea. How about trying say 5k runs and see how long it takes/ how bored you can get?
  8. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    Well, I think I've done about 5k total over the last 2 MFOs and since then, because i'm at level 96.4 now.

    Nice analysis, Fabian :)

    My assumption is that I'll be lucky and find at least one, but I'll be surprised if I find more than one. The real goal is to complete the grial, and get to 99. I know there are better methods for 99, but I also want to boost grail perfection and rune wealth and everything.

    Do you know the chance of a 'boss spawn' being unique or champs? I can't say I've ever seen some numbers on that.
  9. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    I don't, and I've also never seen a good discussion on that based on anything other than anecdotal evidence. I went with 6 boss packs in the above example, with 4 being actual bosses and 2 being champion packs (with 3 champions each on average, which I think is right but might not be). Dunno if that's reasonable or not, the 5 you mentioned sounded kinda lame though ;) I'd be interested to hearing the real numbers if/when you keep good track.
  10. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    Yeah, maybe i'll do that tomorrow. I've got time so i might as well. I really like my map, but maybe it's just the layout I like, and that it is significantly better than previous maps. Also, from a safety perspective I don't get surprised much based on where I teleport, whereas with some maps it's unavoidable without wasting lots of time.

    To answer an earlier question I think I forgot, I'm using spirit shield, and my merc is using insight, 3150 def fort, and kira's for stacked res. I'm a HUGE fan of the prayer/insight combo, especially for these runs.
  11. EasyG

    EasyG IncGamers Member

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    Like others mentioned, I would lower MF some and increase safety/kill speed. 500 mf Is really not needed, especially in hardcore.

    Ok time to move on to some tips from my experience:

    Merc:
    I agree insight/prayer is the only way to go, unlimited mana and crazy health regeneration is simply to good, with this I run in my belt 1 super healing and 3 full rejuv slots. Basically I hit superpotion if i get down to 60% hp and spam rejuvs when I feel in danger. I combined the insight with an andy visage and tal rashas armor. Tal's armor gives a nice extra amount of MF to all merc kills and covers the needed resistance, either item could be socketed with some stacked lightning resist if you want your merc to stay alive better. But in case you kill cold immunes at /p3, I guess you use fortitude or something.
    My merc basically never dies, but some test runs at /p3 and with your slighly slow killspeed I assume he takes much more beats.

    Deaths:

    I figured since you play HC, this is the most important thing. I started my at runs with only 42 FCR and died about 6-7 times. All of these deaths were with amplify damage debuff, usually in combination with might or fanatism. In my map, I have 2 shrines and unless it is a monster or experience shrine, I save them to remove being cursed. If you get cursed, you need to be extra carefull.
    With the 63 FCR setup I use now, I havent died yet. I think with more FCR it is much more unlikely to get in stunlock, but also offcourse getting higher level helps with this. I did have 1 NDE. It was after a fire shrine (sometimes I blindly activate shrines without picture hoping for monster shrine), and while being cursed again. I panicked some and instead of killing the monsters around me I used like 5 full rejuvs haha.
    So, staying at 105FCR is a good choice i think, it makes your runs faster and safer, another solution versus amplify damage is to stack some pdr, you could for example socket free slots with Sol instead of Ist.
    I have never been in danger by the conviction aura, but I do have my light resist stacked some.
    A big note should be that I run without CTA, im just to lazy to make and use it in SC. I assume that with the added life you are much more unlikely to get in stunlock and you willl be much more safe.

    Frozen armor vs shiver armor.
    At first sight frozen armor seems to be much better. According to the description, frozen armor freezes champions, while shiver armor only slows them, deaing some useless damage. But there is something you should know about these armors.
    Frozen armor works on hit. When a monster succesfully hits you, it will get frozen, else it doesnt get frozen.
    Shiver armor works on striking. When a monster attempts to hit you, he gets slowed immediatly at the beginning of the attempt to hit you. The attack he gets frozen from himself will allrdy be executed slower. This makes shiver armor much and much better and it is much more unlikely you will get in stunlock when porting into monsters. Also shiver armor gives more defense.

    Cold mastery.
    Embalmed is the only monster type with some cold resistance: 33%. So if you want to safe some skillpoints, then you should aim for cold mastery lvl 24 after +skills. This will bring all the monsters at -100% rsist unless with one of the following bonuses.

    Cold enchanted gives +75 resist to boss (108% total for embalmed) and +50% resistance to minions. Lvl 34 cold mastery wanted for embalmed minions, lvl 27 for other minions and lvl 32 for other bosses.
    Magic resist gives 40% cold resist to boss and none to minions. Lvl 32 cold mastery wanted for unique embalmed, lvl 25 for other uniques.
    Spectral hit gives 40% cold resist to boss and none to minions.
    A combination of cold enchanted and spetral hit/magic resist will also make the other uniques cold immune with 115% resistance.
    I would suggest just lvl 24 cold mastery and other points in shiver armor, myself I have 20 hard points in cold mastery since im lazy to respec :p.

    Tyraels
    Cool calculation Fabian, I just calculated with only 6 uniques, no minons, no champions and chance to drop 1/400.000. Pretty simplified calculation :D. All you need is luck anyway haha.

    Map
    Since I am really afraid of cursed, I do suggest a map with 2 shrines in the tunnels.

    Monster shrines
    Uniques and champions from monster shrines only have mlvl 85. so they cannot drop Tyraels. I didnt check yet if they give exp like a unique or like a normal monster. But since they cannot drop Tyraels and with mlvl 85 have allmost no exp anyway due to exp penalty, I suggest to not blindly activate all shrines, risking to hit fire shrines.

    I might add more random info if I come up with something :D hope it helps
  12. mr teach

    mr teach IncGamers Member

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    wow this is a lot of really cool advice - and once my sorc gets done with her questing and the Meph kills I think I will join Pharphis on this project
    I might not go for 75k but I will run AT a lot as well since 99 and a grail are my goals as well - so i am really looking forward to it
  13. Owlie

    Owlie IncGamers Member

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    That's some goal you've set for yourself there, pharphis! Best of luck with it.

    I also ran AT for items + xp, so I did /p7 runs. With a very good map (which averaged 5-6 boss packs) my runs were around 40-45s. I did not stay behind to get the minions, however. My gear was:

    Shako (PTopaz)
    Tal's Ammy
    Tal's Armor (Um) - 10 FCR
    Death's Fathom (25 CSD, Ist) - 20 FCR
    Spirit - 35 FCR
    Arachs - 20 FCR
    Rare Gloves with resists and 20+ MF
    War Travs
    2x Rare Rings with 10 FCR

    Ideally, one would have a 2/20 headgear with cold facets and swap the rings for something more useful (Nagelrings, SoJs). Trang's gloves also seem like a good idea, thanks!

    With Infinity, Tal's Armor and Andy's on merc, very rarely have I come across a boss whose CI couldn't be broken, but it is, of course, not much needed and Insight would make for more comfortable running.

    I have managed to have 450 MF while being pretty safe (very high F/C/L resists, might have had 75 for C/L) - I remember dying only when TPing in the middle of a pack (and being slow enough to TP away for them to hit me) or when not being careful around extra fast Invaders. I think you would have no problem hitting 500+ MF with an Ist'd Ocy.

    The monsters taking the longest to kill were Plague Bearers, in my experience.

    Hope this helps in any way.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  14. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    pharphis,

    If you lower your MF to 300, your chance of finding 3+ Tyrael's goes from 10.27% to 8.27*%. That's a full 2.00%! Or like 20% of the time you would have made it, you won't have made it because you lowered your MF.

    Hope this puts things in perspective, signed,
    Magic Find Fanatic


    (*I know this because I spent 3½ hours tonight adding fun functionality to my MF spreadsheet, like a distribution calculator for any item in the game based on run time/MF/hork%/monsters killed/psetting/etc. It's ridiculous and so pretty :loving:)
  15. EasyG

    EasyG IncGamers Member

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    Ah 1 thing for anyone who starts running AT and records their times the first time. Dont be demotivated when you see your runs are 1:30 or even close to 2 minutes. Your times will get much and much faster while getting to know your character and map. You learn how to evade all the lightning bolts, where the champions packs are and how fast they die, all increasing your runspeed.

    Today I notied that after a blizzard, 1 champion embalmed was still standing without being hit. I spammed 3 ice blasts and teleported away and exactly at the edge of the screen I could see his drop, while teleporting further. I didnt even know I needed 3 ice blasts, but somehow I did know this from doing it over and over again and somehow I also knew exactly where to teleport so I could see his drop after the 3rd ice blast arrived.

    These "automatic moves" are what makes runs under 50 seconds. Also you need offcourse the standard tricks like ignore picking up/identifiing every little item and gold pack and using telekinesis a lot! (for opening stash in act1, for entering waypoint at act1, for picking up keys/id scrolls/possibly gold, for activating shrines, opening the special chest, popping urns/picking gold while merc kills cold immune boss.
  16. Corrupted

    Corrupted IncGamers Member

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    You don't need 105 fcr and you don't need 75 cr/lr unless your rejuv reflexes are rather poor.
    I currently use 3-part tals with a HotO and Rhyme for a 63 fcr setup and I manage <40 sec p1 runs on HC with little worry.
    I have 37 CR and 69 LR and only ~1600 hp because I've gone with ~50% block. CELE certainly hurt when I remain in nova range but nothing that I can't hit a full rejuv in time for.
    I use a might merc with Insight/Treachery/Tals Mask versus the CI. I would probably use Fortitude if I had a Cham for Andariel's Visage.
    You should measure the average packs over a 100 runs or more so you know precisely what you're working with. I used to settle for any 5+ pack map but now I know I can get a 5.5+ and still maintain that running speed.

    It took years before anyone reached 20k AT runs, I think you'll be done with this game long before you get to 75k. Maybe you'll change your opinion when you hit clvl 98 :badteeth:
  17. PsycheNoob

    PsycheNoob IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, even D3 will be "fixed" b4 you reach this number :p.
  18. Cyrax

    Cyrax IncGamers Member

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    Don't let these last two guys let you down. Here at the SPF we are not known for setting realistic goals, but we are known for actually achieving them.
  19. bcoe

    bcoe IncGamers Member

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    I would love to see 75k runs finished. I would certainly maximize run speed over MF - over that many runs, speed will be your best friend.

    Just to point out the grandeur of the project, I observe that if you can get your run time down to 45 seconds, it will mean doing AT runs for 4.5 hours every single day for a solid year. I do love when people take on impossible challenges, so I wish you the best of luck.
  20. mr teach

    mr teach IncGamers Member

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    bcoe your math must be wrong with 1min runs and 4 hours of running each day he would have 72000 runs after 300days

    so he would need 312 days and another two hour run for 75k runs

    and thats with half an hour less running per day than you calculated and longer runs with 45 sec runs he could reduce it by 25% - leading to 3 hours per day

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