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Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Jedouard, Mar 18, 2012. | Replies: 37 | Views: 9981

  1. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    So, I am shooting for a perpetual Wrath of the Berserker. Here's the build: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bSiQVP!ZYW!ZZYZZc (possibly Furious Charge}Stamina instead of Furious Charge}Merciless Assault)

    The goal of this build is to crit all the time and keep Wrath of the Berserker going forever, which requires earning a lot of fury. Fortunately, earning a lot of fury becomes the same thing as critting with Battle Rage}Into the Fray. But, I really will have to be "in the fray" at all times for this build to work because I can't afford to lose a second of fury earning. That's why I like the build: it demands constant engagement.

    I've underlined all the fury buffs and chance-to-crit buffs for the sake of ease.

    PASSIVES:
    Ruthless: Adds 5% crit and 50% crit damage.

    Weapons Master: Adds 10% crit, but, hopefully I will have enough crit already to be able to forego axes and maces for the mighty weapons to add 3 fury per hit. If not, then I guess I need that crit bonus.

    Animosity: adds 10% to fury generation.

    ACTIVES:
    Wrath of the Berserker}Thrive on Chaos: adds 10% crit and adds 1 second to duration for every 25 fury gained.

    The Battle Rage}Into the Fray: adds 3% crit and gives 15 fury per crit. As I understand it, some AoE's determine critting on a per-monster basis instead of per cast. I hope the AoE's I have chosen do this, but even if they don't, this skill/rune is vital to this build.

    Revenge}Best Served Cold: Adds 10% crit for 12 seconds, costs nothing and saves my life if I get in a jam, which I plan to be in without any other life savers besides an escape from Furious Charge. Rune may be changed for Vengeance is Mine for more 5 fury/enemy hit and improved life gain, or for Provocation so you can cast it more often.

    Overpower}Killing Spree: Adds 10% crit for 6 seconds, costs nothing and will be the main skill for my build since I should be critting often enough to almost spam it, especially if it is a per-monster crit, not a per-cast crit. Rune may be changed for Momentum to generate 12 fury/enemy hit.

    Furious Charge}Merciless Assault or Furious Charge}Stamina: The Stamina rune adds 8 fury for each target hit, which, given the AoE on this, is great to keep Wrath of the Berserker going. However, the Merciless Assault rune, which reduces the cooldown by 2 seconds for every target hit, might be necessary for survivability or may even earn me more fury from Battle Rage}Into the Fray if the Furious Charge crit is per monster rather than per cast.

    Cleave}Reaping Swing: 5 fury per cast plus 3 fury per hit.

    THE IDEA:
    It's simple enough:
    Furious Charge into groups.
    Cleave and Overpower to heart's content.
    Revenge to save my hide or Furious Charge to escape.
    Keep Battle Rage active at all times.
    Keep Wrath of the Berserker going for as long as possible and re-cast it whenever it goes off and the cooldown expires.

    I really hope I have sufficient chance to crit so that I can use the Weapons Master Mighty Weapons' fury bonus instead of the Axe/Mace crit bonus. Here's why:

    (All these calculations will include the Animosity fury bonus.)

    Take Cleave}Reaping Swing, for example. If I have three enemies around me, then I get 15 fury. If I have the Mighty Weapon's bonus from Weapons Master, that goes up to 25 fury, the magic number. If Cleave is a per-cast crit and I crit 50% of the time - I would hope that would be the minimum for a build like this - then probability would place that number 34 fury thanks to Battle Rage}Into the Fray. But if crit for Cleave is per monster, 50% crit would instead make that number 51 fury.

    Do the same for Furious Charge}Stamina. Three enemies would yield 43 fury. The Mighty Weapons' boon would make that 53. 50% to crit, would make that 61 if it were per-cast crit thanks to Battle Rage}Into the Fray, but if it was per-monster, it would be 78.

    In case your curious, if I went with Furious Charge}Merciless Assault, three enemies would yield 17 fury. Mighty Weapons boon would make that 26. 50% to per-cast crit would make that 35, but 50% to per-monster crit would make that 60. The yield on a single Furious Charge}Stamina is much higher than Furious Charge}Merciless Assault at three enemies, but if you're hitting three enemies, Furious Charge}Merciless Assault can be used every 4 seconds instead of 10. So there are a handful things to take into consideration in making this decision: whether it is per-cast or per-monster crit, how often will I want/need to use Furious Charge, how many monsters do I generally hit and how high is my crit chance. I'll have to wait to see, but I am leaning toward Merciless Assault since the char is rather susceptible to control-impairing effects like fear and come Inferno, I may need to get out of or back into action more quickly than once every 10 seconds. So, let's hope for per monster crit.

    YOU MIGHT ASK...
    You might ask why I don't use Hammer of the Ancients. Well, the crit bonus was significantly dropped in Patch 14, I believe, to 3% (I might be wrong, though). This isn't reflected in the calculator yet. Also, its AoE overlaps with my other skills, making it redundant. In this build, Furious Charge just seems much more useful since it let's me get across the screen immediately, get lots of fury and deal a lot damage to a rather large AoE (given what else the skill does).

    I MIGHT ASK...
    I am not sure if it is still considered to be "gaining fury" if you have already topped off your fury bulb and you cast a skill and/or receive damage that (would) earn more fury. I hope it is still gaining fury, but if not, I might need to find another fury spender because Wrath of the Berserker and Battle Rage are insufficient. Furious Charge or Cleave would have to go, and if it is Cleave that goes, Furious Charge would need to take the Merciless Assault rune since it would be my only source of fury and I would thus need to use it often. The replacement skill for either of these would need to be per-monster crit and allow for repeated fury-spending damage to as many targets as possible without knocking too many of them out of melee range or restricting them from getting into melee range. My choices are, therefore, limited to Rend}Ravage, Hammer of the Ancients}Rolling Thunder, Weapon Throw}Ricochet, Seismic Slam}Crackling Rift and Sprint}Gangway. I'd really have to see which one compliments the build best before making a decision.

    Only Rend}Ravage and Hammer of the Ancients}Rolling Thunder avoid impairing movement and both of them have pretty sizeable AoEs in the immediate vicinity of the character. They would make good replacements for Cleave, but bad replacements for Furious Charge because I would be left without a way to damage monsters across the screen. Weapon Throw}Richochet and Seismic Slam}Crackling Rift would damage monsters across the screen. Weapon Throw}Ricochet will get damage to up to three enemies across the screen, but it will slow the enemies, which could be bad (or good if I have an irritating caster/ranged monster). Seismic Slam}Crackling Rift also goes across the screen, but it has knockback. Fortunately, the Crackling Rift rune allows me to pinpoint the knockback, which means enemies peripheral to the Seismic Slam will still be able to move in. Lastly, Sprint}Gangway seems nearly identical to Furious Charge since it gets my char across the screen and does damage (albeit along the way instead of at the end). The problem is that the damage is puny and does unwanted knockback and the skill requires me to spend too much time directing the movement when my fighting needs to be fast paced for the build to work.

    Any information, ideas or suggestions?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  2. Jaago

    Jaago IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Into the Fray has an unspecified chance to generate that 15 fury on criticals. I wouldn't be very optimistic about that chance being any higher than 1/3, could be even less. Fury on hit on Weapon Master is always vastly superior to the +critical% for fury-generating purposes, since 10% * 15 = 1.5 fury additional gain even if Into the Fray proc chance would be 100%. Moreover, Momentum rune on Overpower will generate more fury than the +critical% rune effect.

    No one here knows whether gaining fury at maximum actually counts for WotB, or not. That will probably have to wait for a couple of months. Even if it doesn't you can simply spam your Battle Rage to spend it, since you can cast it in the middle of your other actions without stopping, as far as I've gathered. Of course there are also some fury spender options that could use that fury to actually damage enemies. I'll definitely be testing Dread Bomb rune on Weapon Throw.
     
  3. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Jaago,

    Good point about Battle Rage}Into the Fray's "chance" thing. I missed that. I will be interested to see how often it goes off. This is one more reason to hope for per-monster crits. This means I will probably need to pay more attention to fury generation than I previously thought - at least until I can finds some items to boost it.

    So, I am thinking that, at least until I get good items, I will have no choice but to go with Weapons Master-Mighty Weapons, but I am hoping that as my items improve, my on-item fury generation will make this redundant. I think I’m probably more likely to get this fury-generation redundancy than chance-to-crit redundancy from Weapons Master-Axes/Maces because I’d imagine that 100% chance to crit will be a lot harder to achieve than +3 fury per hit. I am approaching Overpower}Killing Spree versus Overpower}Momentum with the same logic. Hopefully, after I get on-item fury generation mods, I won’t need that much fury from skills that could otherwise buff my chance to crit.

    If I do need that much fury, then the perpetual Wrath of the Berserker build stands to lose its coolness because I would be sacrificing 20% chance to crit from Weapons Master and Overpower}Killing Spree just to keep 10% from Wrath of the Berserker, and this means it is harder to spam Overpower.

    On the other hand, saying Wrath of the Berserker only gives 10% chance to crit is wrong since increasing attack speed 25% and movement speed 20% means more opportunities to crit. Moreover, if most of the crits trigger on a per-monster basis, achieving 100% chance to crit may not be that important to spamming Overpower. If Overpower is a per-monster crit and I have a 60% chance to crit and there are four monsters around, I should be able to immediately recast Overpower 97.4% of the time.

    Regarding Weapon Throw}Dread Bomb, my concern with this is the need for a corpse. Many crit death animations destroy the monster, so I am worried I wouldn't be able to cast it that often. But, Blizzard seems to have moved away from the whole corpse-regent thing for the Witch Doctor, so maybe this isn't a real concern. I'd still be sad to lose Furious Charge, though, since it has so much utility. You would need 67 fury for Dread Bomb to meet Furious Charge's damage. And Furious Charge has the value of getting me into range for my other skills, earning a lot of fury and potentially saving my life. Maybe I will just have to cast Battle Rage over and over if I have to keep my fury bulb from topping off.

    By the way, I do have a different “survival” build that heavily uses Dread Bomb. It is based on maximum mobility, minimum melee engagement: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#XSYdRf!VTU!ZZZaZc. With the exception of Ignore Pain}Iron Hide, the active skills boil down to using Ancient Spear and Ground Stomp to suck enemies in; using Leap}Launch to lock them in place and move away; using Furious Charge to charge back to the original point of departure for the Leap; and using up all my fury on Weapon Throw}Dread Bomb every time the fury bulb fills up. (This build accounts for the change of Leap Attack to Leap.) The passive skills are just survival. The combination of Relentless and the natural 30% damage resistance give the barb 80% damage resistance when below 20% health, and Ignore Pain ups that to 145%. Juggernaught is an obvious must for this build, which relies heavily on being able to move. Tough as Nails is the one skill I am unsure about; Bloodthirst, Superstition, No Escape, Weapons Master and Ruthless may be better depending on whether life steal, resistances or crits better suit my play or if I need more damage from Ancient Spear and Weapon Throw. The pitfall of this build is that all the skills have cooldowns of 10 or more seconds. The exception is Furious Charge}Merciless Assault, which, if I aim it correctly, will have a 0-second cooldown. If the cooldowns become an issue, I might have to trade out Weapon Throw for Seismic Slam.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  4. djxput

    djxput IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    ya I know so many unknowns - Im looking at a similar build as the OP; but wonder how the battle rage (into the fray) will work if its worth it; or like you suggested perhaps just going for overpower momentum ... I hate being limited by timer's thou like overpower is; rather be just limited by rage ...


     
  5. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Well, if you can get your chance to crit high enough, the timer disappears. That and Into the Fray are the main reasons I want to favour crits as much as I can. I'm really hoping crit for Overpower is determined per monster, not per cast and that Into the Fray has a meaningful chance to proc.


     
  6. iESCAPISM

    iESCAPISM IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    While I have little to add or question in regards to the OP's build I just wanted to say that it all looks very interesting.

    I'm curious though: don't all AoE attacks have individual to-crit chance? From my understanding they do, as I have heard of no AoE that either crits everything or nothing at all. Please enlighten me if there is record of such a mechanic though. My money is on crits being per-mob rather than per-cast, for all manner of AoE attacks.

    Another thing I'm willing to bet some RMAH money on is Berserker benefiting from rage gained beyond the cap of the rage bulb. Anything else would be absurd and not at all an enjoyable mechanic.

    None of the above is fact though, only what I personally think make the most sense.
     
  7. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    I haven't heard of any skills that have a per-cast chance to crit, but then I've only heard info on the forums about a few AoE skills, and non of that was official.

    I agree about it being no fun if you have to keep your fury from topping of to benefit from Wrath of the Berserker}Thrive on Chaos, but sometimes the devs have a different view of what is fun. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
     
  8. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Apparently every hit has an independent chance to crit, from what beta testers have posted on the forums. That doesn't rule out the possibility of skill that have an all-or-nothing crit mechanic, but I doubt they will be in. After all, isn't a critical hit critical because it hits a weak spot on the target and because it happens to be a particularly powerful instance of a skill. To me it seems like a crit should involve the interaction of both skill and monster, but maybe I'm reading too deep into it. ...So AoE attacks will proc more crits.
     
  9. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    I can confirm, that all available AoE skills in the beta calculate its crit per target and not per attack. Based on the color of their damage numbers, DoTs don't seem to crit at all.

    As for resource gains on crit, I couldn't try Fury on crit, but I could test AP on crit with a Wizard. I posted my findings here: http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?824910-Crit-based-procs-AoE-skills


     
  10. Kblavkalash

    Kblavkalash IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Remember in earlier patches Wotb had 45% IAS and that was huge, now it's only 25%, so I dunno how worth is to even trying to keep it up. I mean you sacrifice all sorts of things just to keep this skill going when it's not even that good anymore.
     
  11. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Thanks for the info, Hardrock.

    It depends what you mean by worth it. I don't know that it will make the most effective build in the world, but it's a fun challenge to see if you can maintain berserker-state forever.

    I am interested, though, about when the WotB cooldown will start. Is it after you cast it or after you revert to normal. The latter would really put a damper on this build. Anyone play the Blizzcon arena build with it?


     
  12. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    In the PvP demo last year, its cooldown started when you used the skill. You can see it clearly in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTZkR5J7N6s&t=2m9s

    Of course it's possible, that it was changed since then.


     
  13. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Thanks for the link. I looked, but didn't that vid.


     
  14. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Mighty Weapon +3 Fury per hit is much much better, and Frenzy is superior in generating Fury (6 per hit, doubled attack speed, enhanced damage) just from sheer frames per attack speed. Maybe Cleave is just as good, no one really knows. You also have to have survival buffs, like resistances, because the zerker relies on always attacking things so it gets hit a lot. Staying alive is always easier on paper than in-game, especially in Hell/Inferno. I've devised the ultimate permazerker build but I dare not share it until closer to release, since skills and whatnot can still be updated. And I like it too much.
     
  15. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    As of the latest calculator, Frenzy has no runes to generate any fury per hit. Or were you referring to a stack with Might Weapons +3 fury? if it is the latter, I was still under the impression that you only hit with one weapon at a time with Frenzy, but just much faster - 75% faster to be exact, after five hits. But I'm not sure how long that stack lasts or what resets it.

    I am sceptical that Frenzy will generate more Fury than Cleave with or without a stack. For Frenzy with the Mighty Weapons fury bonus, it would be 1 enemy * 1.75 speed increase * 3 fury = 5.25 fury. For Cleave with the Mighty Weapons fury bonus and Reaping Swing rune, it would be 1 enemy * (3 fury + 3 fury) = 6 fury. Unless you have skill specific items that change something, Cleave returns 114% the fury (5.25:6) all other things being equal, and that is when Frenzy is at its optimal state of 5 stacks and Cleave is at its worst state hitting only one enemy.

    The only thing I could see tipping the scales in Frenzy's favour is if you are facing a single enemy and you are using Battle Rage}Into the Fray, in which case the increased frequency with which you hit that single enemy would increase your crit-based fury generation. But, that goes away as soon as a second enemy shows up since crits are, as Hardrock said, per enemy, not per skill activation.

    I am hoping that on item leech, Wrath of the Berserker's 20% dodge, the Barb's native 30% damage reduction, the armor bonus from Strength, and Revenge will keep me alive, particularly if I go the Revenge}Provocation or Revenge}Vengeance is Mine route.


     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  16. Superstate

    Superstate IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    @Such Violent Storms

    Frenzy does not hold a candle to Bash Instigation on single target, or Reaping Swing on multiple targets, for fury generation. I also find all these perma-wrath builds misleading, as they seemingly often tend to focus on single target perma-wraths. As cool as they sound, they are only "realistic" in AoE situations in the sense that while you actually have mobs up, you can easily maintain it with WMMW, Reaping Swing and so on, but once they drop off, so will your duration.

    Frenzy also never doubles your attack speed, it increases it by 75% at the very most, which is only true for non-dw builds. For DW builds the maximum increase is ~63%. If you add WotB to the equation, the increase of Frenzy is, at most, ~51% (we assume WotB ias is additive here, all IAS buffs found so far in d3 is additive, even Shrine IAS, so it's not just a guess). The variable here is the gear IAS; if you have any (which you are likely to have), this value drops even further.


    You should probably revise that ultimate build of yours if it includes Frenzy. And stop saying that it's superior in generating Fury, that's not even true on single-target (and far from the truth on multiple targets). It is just barely better than Bash without runestones for dual-wielding, using WMMW. If you're not using WMMW, it isn't even better than base Bash (and it's never at any point better than Bash Instigation for fury generation).
     
  17. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Just a heads up: Overpower has been changed from resetting cooldown on crit to reducing the cooldown by 1 second on crit.
     
  18. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    I'm fairly sure that Frenzy lasts 3 seconds. A Frenzy hit (and nothing else) will reset the duration of all stacks.

    I must be missing something here. Why would another enemy affect the Fury generated by Frenzy?

    Also, while crits are always per target (its never an all or nothing kind of deal when you attack), how resource gains from crits work with multi-target skills is still unknown. With Arcane Orb and Wave of Force, AP on crit didn't work at all with the Wizard when I tried it. I didn't gain any AP per attack, nor per target.

    Hopefully that's 1 sec per target and not per Overpower, otherwise it wouldn't make a difference. Although it's worth noting, that crits have only a chance to reduce the cooldown, it's not guaranteed.


     
  19. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Yes, you missed that I was referring to Frenzy+Battle Rage}Into the Fray in comparison to Cleave+Battle Rage}Into the Fray. Maybe I wrote that poorly in the post. What I meant was that when both those skill combos are used to attack a single enemy, the increased speed of Frenzy will give it more chances to crit, but when two or more enemies are in melee range, Cleave has more chances to crit, and given the build type, you should have two enemies near you quite often. This all, like you said, assumes that Battle Rage}Into the Fray activates on each crit and is not limited to one crit per cast. (But I think that would be weird to assume otherwise for a skill like Cleave.)

    Regarding Overpower and all these other "has a chance to" skills, I wish they would give us a number. I hate not having the mechanics info in game and having to search for it elsewhere.


     
  20. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Perpetual Wrath of the Berserker

    Oh, OK, that makes sense.

    I would also like to know the proc chance of certain abilites as well. I wonder why Blizzard hides them. Could it be that they're using "WoW's" proc per minute system?
     

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