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Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 Community Forum' started by Steven Hazani, May 9, 2013. | Replies: 16 | Views: 16481

  1. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    Everyone knows about the gold dupe thing caused by them using a 32 bit number for gold values (which would also explain why auctions are capped at 2 bil if you can't go over about 2.15 bil without an error).

    But I recently found something more priceless. An exact breakdown of how enemy XP/loot was "modified in accordance with its HP". It was 100% complete nerfs, often dramatic. Also, almost every enemy on the list is in an act other than 3.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8770357797#7

    Take a moment to think about that.

    The entire point of the whole monster density revamp was to make acts other than 3 worth playing. They then went and made acts other than 3 filled with low XP low drop mobs, instead of the smaller numbers of more productive enemies they had before.

    Can someone explain to the class in what way this is an improvement, or would in any way change the game? Because the way I see it they just went and sabotaged their own major patch feature because... what? People were finding too much stuff? Pfft. The odds are so stacked against you in this game you could give all players literally over 9,000 MF and they'd still mostly find junk. People were leveling too fast?

    Holy ****, people are able to level up off an non Alkaizer run? MUST BE NERFED!

    ...Now it'd be nice if Diablo 3's entertainment value were coming from the game itself, but as long as they're gonna continue this train wreck of failure I'm going to continue pointing while cackling insanely in laughter. This is the most fun this game has been in a while. :D
  2. slyraje

    slyraje IncGamers Site Pal

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    And yet I'm netting more exp per run in act 1&2 than I was in act 3 prior to the patch. The loot has been dropping at about the same rate, though (in solo play).

    The point of the density patch was to bring acts 1, 2, and 4 in line with act 3. I think they accomplished that.
  3. RazeBarb

    RazeBarb IncGamers Member

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    I started playing 1.08 with lvl 98 (3/4ths of the bar full) and now I am just 50% away from lvl100 after maybe 4 hours playtime.

    Why? Because now I can join MP10 Act1 and get +1000% xp. The amount of legendary items dropping is insane. Not a single run without at least 1.

    Good patch!
  4. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Pretty much what the other replies said. They wanted to boost Acts 1 and 2 (and 4?) in popularity/playability and make them more comparable to Act 3. But they didn't want to make Acts 1-2 way way better. Which they would have been with 3x the monsters, if the exp rewards hadn't been reduced a bit. They nerfed some of the exp in Act 3 as well; namely from cutting way back on scorpion exp.

    I've done several runs of A1/A2 since the patch, and I'm definitely gaining more exp now than I was pulling in act 3 during the last week of v1.07. And that's before the scorpions exp was nerfed.

    Item drop quantity is up a bit also, in terms of legendaries. The thing I've really noticed is Tomes of Secret. I'm getting those in crazy numbers, like 33-50% more than previously, I guess since trash mobs are fairly likely to drop them, and there are 2-3x the trash mobs we used to see. Typical 20-30m game in the past (long enough to fill up inv with good type rares) I'd get maybe 25-30 ToS. Now I'm getting 45-50 in about the same amount of time.

    I'm curious to see how they drop in value once the GAH goes back online (I'm in HC). They were 10-14k previously, with dips in price to about 8 or 9k a few times in late v1.07. Prices will be crazy when the GAH goes back online since everyone's got a huge backlog of stuff to sell, but once prices stabilize in a week or 2 I suspect ToS will be like 5 or 6k in HC, as often as they drop now in A1/A2.
  5. Speedster

    Speedster IncGamers Member

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    I agree with Raze.

    Nonstop action, new scenery (hadn't played through Act 1 in many months), more drops and 'identify all' so little pain in picking up rares in the hope they'll be keepers.
  6. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    And is this because of the enemies, or because items/stacks now stack multiplicatively with MP rather than additively?

    We have our answer. By the way, that's 60 million an hour. Not exactly stellar results, especially after a buff. People were doing 100-200 mil an hour before it (not just from scorpions).

    Allow me to walk everyone through this from the beginning, since my initial post focused more on laughing at Blizzard for having such poor judgment than explaining exactly how and why their judgment is flawed.

    Initially they were just going to nerf scorpion XP. Now this is questionable, because part of their reasoning was that a Mallet Lord only gave 50% more XP than a scorpion, and I don't see how anyone could say that and not think that Mallet Lords (the hardest non elite in the game) should not have "rewards in proportion to their difficulty" as well. Still, it seemed reasonable (even though scorpions are only good for XP because they appear in large numbers, unlike most other enemy types, individual scorpions are NOT good XP).

    They later expanded it to shadow demons. Eh, still reasonable.

    They then say a number of enemies have had rewarded altered in proportion to difficulty. Still reasonable.

    They then list what all the altered enemies are (but not the precise nature of the modification). Still reasonable.

    People panic and assume it is a pure nerf.

    Turns out it actually was.

    At no point in time were the hard enemies, such as Dark Berserkers, Gorgors, Blood Clan Shamans, the tree guys, most of Act 4, etc even mentioned. Making the easy kills less rewarding seems reasonable to prevent something else from becoming the new scorpion, but leaving all sorts of enemy types as skip bait is not.

    And going through all this trouble to get people out of act 3 then to undermine their own efforts? It's laughable. But Blizzard has a proven track record of delivering "catches" in Diablo 3. This is far from the only example of where they've given people what they asked for then snuck in a catch as a screw you. 1.03 drops anyone? The list goes on and on and on.

    I just think it'd be nice if they just did something nice for the game without slipping in all these rider bills.
  7. slyraje

    slyraje IncGamers Site Pal

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    You're not making any real points. You're trying to use one person's "maybe 4 hours playtime" as an example for the entire player base's exp/hr.

    Plain and simply, the other acts (maybe not 4) are absolutely worth running now. Find me an example of someone who was pulling 100-200 million xp/hr that is getting considerably less after the patch (and after they've had time to find the optimal runs in other acts).
  8. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    My point is that the benefit is solely coming from the alteration to XP bonuses, which is independent of what enemies or areas you get XP from. My response to him was but a small part of the whole, and by no means my entire point.

    Scorpions excluded, what this means is that you now get more XP from act 3. You would get more from 1-2 due to the monster density fixes but when you double the enemies and half the rewards that's called breaking even. Except it's diluted over twice as many enemies, making it still a nerf. Granted, not all the nerfs are 50% or greater, but there's not a single buff for the hard enemies in any of the in game areas. Not even one. Making say, those ghouls in act 1 worth less and the trees and berserkers worth more would actually make sense.

    Nerfing many enemies (and just about all the ones that appear in decent numbers, which is where the XP comes from) and buffing none just makes it seem like "Oh sure, we'll fix monster density... and make them give less rewards."

    You don't see anything even slightly underhanded about flaunting the hordes of enemies right away then holding off on announcing most of the nerfs until after it was all live?
  9. slyraje

    slyraje IncGamers Site Pal

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    Not even slightly. What is the net result? More monsters, more XP, and more loot. It's what I was expecting, and it's what they delivered.
  10. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    Point of increased monster density = increase reward/time ratio of non act 3 areas.
    Effect of reduced rewards per unit = decrease reward/time ratio of non act 3 areas.

    When you put more enemies in an area then make those enemies less rewarding, that's moving things back towards breaking even (at best).

    The XP stacking change affects all enemies, aka act 3 is better.

    Remember how everyone was excited the MP system made act 1 and 2 good again, then it turned out it didn't because of underpopulation?

    Now if Blizzard were non one dimensional at all, they'd realize there are more parameters than enemy quantity. As such, they could make areas with small numbers of tough but rewarding enemies and those would still be productive. This would likely be a good model for Act 4, even. But all they can do is put large numbers of enemies on screen that are worth very little. Even that simple change would warrant more thought than "Oh, there's not dozens of enemies on screen at once here? Worthless." from the player base.

    If they really wanted variety in areas they'd mix it up even more. Surely a few of those optional areas could be repurposed to house hordes of elites or something?
  11. slyraje

    slyraje IncGamers Site Pal

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    I'm not understanding how you aren't seeing the net result of the changes. They've added more loot and experience than they've taken away. Am I wrong?

    XP bonus change + more monsters - monster XP and loot reduction = moar XP and loot

    I'm not saying this was the only option or even the best course of action, but there is nothing shady about it and it isn't a nerf from 1.07 to 1.08.

    I do like the idea of having more difficult areas with fewer enemies but increased XP and loot just for the sake of variety. It would lead to other builds being used as well, I'm sure.
  12. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    I'm not seeing why people are misattributing the results. If Acts 1/2/4 were comparable to 3, that'd mean the people doing 100-200M before in Act 3 would now do so in 1/2/4. Obviously 4 is still hopeless, but 1 and 2 had potential before the surprise nerf.

    The change for bonus XP (mostly affecting higher MPs) means more XP from all enemies, aka the people doing 100-200M before on their MP10 runs would get 200-500M now. No one is reporting numbers even close to this, instead it seems slightly less to slightly more, aka all of it really just canceled out for non act 3 and made act 3 better.

    It isn't just what it is though, but how it looks. Blizzard's PR is terrible now. Are nerfs really what they should be doing?

    As for the whole mob density not being the only metric of run value thing... there's an old D2 mod with an area in it where you will almost never fight more than 3 enemies at a time unless you do something wrong. It's one of the best XP/loot areas, despite other areas having swarms of weak enemies. Why? They give a lot of XP and loot per kill, making up for the fact you get few kills. They're also effectively champions as normal enemies, meaning if they spawn as champions or minions they're the hardest enemies in the game. So it isn't a free lunch. There's also something around ten bosses there, not counting the ones before or after those areas.

    One amateur guy was able to make single target DPS viable, why can't an entire professional team?
    Last edited: May 11, 2013
  13. slyraje

    slyraje IncGamers Site Pal

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    I do wish they had better solutions and hope to see them in the expansion. You bring up good points about how this patch really didn't help make the game better, but I can't concede that there isn't more incentive to play the other acts now compared to pre-1.08.
  14. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    All I'm saying there is they should have left well enough alone. There were many areas found to be comparable to or even superior than keeps 2 before they messed with most of the enemies. Even if it had shifted things from Act 3 to anything except Act 3... after a year, is that so bad?

    As for the xpac, not really holding my breath. I don't doubt they would withhold major features for more cash, I doubt they could even produce them, and if they did could satisfy their well jaded player base with them.
  15. juliah

    juliah IncGamers Member

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    Actually I think Act I is better for Power Leveling. You can always get XP bonus for the masscre. Act 2 desert masquitto is annoying. And act 3 density is not so good as before. Act 4 too dangerous. LOL

    Edit: Removed link to illegal site. Do not post it again. Thanks.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2013
  16. Dogbert

    Dogbert IncGamers Member

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    Forgive me for asking such a trivial question but after reading the first post in this thread i have come to the conclusion that farming act 3 is best both for items and exp. Is this a correct assumption? Thanks.
  17. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    Not sure if serious...

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