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One with Everything not so hot after all ?

Discussion in 'Monk' started by WhiteGiant, May 26, 2012. | Replies: 32 | Views: 12779

  1. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    first up One with everything is about the most useful skill you can have once you enter inferno ; i dont deny that.

    but all in all One with everything is very costly.

    1st of all its a passive slot (alright that is kinda fine with me)
    2nd Blizzard itemization precludes effective stacking of a single Resistance

    Lets Elaborate on my second point. Lets face It single Resist Affixes are useless trash for everyone but Monk and the reason for that is is simple + all resist is a far superior Resistance stat. because + to all resist has about the same item budget as + single resist. so its not unlikely that you can either find a ring with +30 all resist or + 30 lighting resist on the very same item level. which one would you prefer generally speaking ?

    also in Inferno we need Hoodles amounts of Resistance ; as far as i can tell we need _atleast_ around 1000 resistance
    and plenty more armor than the average bear.

    that being said One with everything does not really provide you with Bonus Resistance like Warcry "Impunity" (20% armor 50% resist )

    you merely trade Affix slots for a slightly better version. but lets be honest most inferno act 1 items have only 4 affixes to begin with and sacrficing about 2 of ~4,5 affixes on about 70% of your gear does not leave you much in the way of dmg or other useful stats like IAS (gloves rings Amulets) Vit + Dex and generally stuff which is required to deal some kind of dmg.

    and even if you manage to get your 1k resistance up you need atleast 10 k armor to multiply your accumulated resistance to an effective degree ; and than you still need some kind of fluent heal like life on hit / hp reg ; all of that while maintaining about atleast 10 k dps.

    i just think that the multiplyer for mitigation stats are just not good enough. evasion is a plus over the barbarian. but it does not help if you face Molten, Plague , Firechain, arcane, Frozen etc ; because these effects can never be dodged. and even than i think that the diminishing returns on evasion per dex are the most severe ones of all defensive stats.




    that being said iam very unhappy with the current state of the monk. Heals dont scale and will by no means ever be able to compete in Inferno. Mitigation multiplyer are weak in comparison with the barbarian. ( i would trade my Mantra of Healing with 310 hps and 20% resistance in a heartbeat with Warcry impunity (20% AR 50% resistance)




    so how do we make the game design of this mess better and smarter? 2 points ; hear me out on both before you judge.


    First Buff single resist affixes. i think that Single resist affixes are very useless affixes deliberately made weak to deny the abuse of One with everything.

    + all resistance provides about the same amount of resist to about 6 Resitances at the same time:

    that being said i think that single resist affixes should be atleast 4 times as strong as a all resist affix on the same level.

    so it should be possible to find a level ~50 item with +20 all resist and + 80 Fire resist.
    this would make Items generally more useful and allow you to adress your weaknesses (say you hate mortar > go stack fire / phys resitance )

    Second change one with everything. it would probably be too good with single resist affixes being 4 times as strong as they are now ( as is only fair for everyone who does not has one with everything in its current form )

    so how change it ? i would change it this way

    One with everything grants you Resistances equal to 40% of your combined Resistances and spreads them evenly across all Resistance types.

    eg say i i have

    400 phys
    200 Poison
    250 Fire
    100 Ice
    100 Lightning
    250 Arcane / Holy
    - resi

    That is a total of 1300 Resistance Points. so this version of One with everything would grant me 520 bonus resistance ( 1300*0,4 ) and would spread them across starting from the weaknesses. in an attempt to even out the Resistances.

    400 Physical
    284 Poison
    284 Fire
    284 Ice
    284 Lightning
    284 Arcane

    so this would be what your new resistances would look like once you opt for one with everything.


    these are my 2 cents ; i think it would generally improve the itemization. for all classes and it would make One with everything a real Bonus not just a shady trade of Affixes due to flawed itemization.


    any thoughts ?
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2012
  2. BAMFSpecialOps

    BAMFSpecialOps IncGamers Member

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    I see no problems with it. You can get All Res+Single Res items easy, quite easy to stack a single res like that and get crazy boosts from One With Everything.

    On the last part.. again no.
  3. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    ofc you can get them easy ; because they are only useful for monks ; but items generally dont have that much affixes - i barely find 5 affix items in Act 1 Inferno. and chances are that the remaining affixes besides all resist and singleresist are subpar at best. sorry but thats simply not good enough especially not for inferno. The Barbarian on the other hand is able to only concentrate on all resist. plus str / stam.

    and he can flash on warcry impunity for a ridiculous 50% + resist and 20% AR on top of that he can choose superstition to increase his Mitigation by another 20% which are completely of the book for either Armor nor Resistance Mitigation ; making it another Mitigation Multiplyer on top of Resistance and Armor.

    and if you'd made any attempt at inferno you'd know that the Mitigation of the Monk is Supbar in comparison with a Barb and One with Everything locks out more possibilities ; as i said its more of an Affix trade than a real bonus.

    and without the GAH. OwE would be generally useless.



    so if you call the Mitigation of One with Everything "crazy" than what would the Barbarian be ? and if you make any claims make sure to back them up with something like spreadsheets or facts ...
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  4. BAMFSpecialOps

    BAMFSpecialOps IncGamers Member

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    Its not hard at all to get all res/single res/vit/dex on 1 item. Not sure what you are complaining about, but even in the AH you can find them pretty cheap.

    My monk is in inferno, so yeah I know what it takes.

    I have no problems with res, nor getting good enough items at this point. No way do I want OwE to micromanage my res and somehow figure out where to 'put the given'.
  5. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    oh yeah ? show me your progress in Inferno i'd be glad to see it , Act1 Inferno is a cakewalk in comparison to Act 2 ;

    so yeah can you beat more Inferno act2 champs than not ? talk is cheap let me see your results.
  6. ElementEight

    ElementEight IncGamers Member

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    The problem is that you always need to find the right res. Dex vit res single (same one, mind you) and res all is a pretty keen thing to find.


  7. BAMFSpecialOps

    BAMFSpecialOps IncGamers Member

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    How is it a problem? Search for @res, single res, dex and there are tons of options in the AH. All you have to do is make up your mind which one to build around, like for light res+all res(seems light+all is the cheapest) you can easily find 80-100 res items for less than 100k


    I play 99.99999999% of the time solo, due to my wireless being up and down, my progress is slow but yeah it will be harder
  8. ElementEight

    ElementEight IncGamers Member

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    I'm aware, that's what I do - it only becomes bothersome when you find a really good item with a resist of another type.

    Regardless, I don't find 1wE to be that great, yielding something like 5-6 more %'s of resist due to the way my drops were itemized (I got about 300 of all resists without it, +/- 40ish, hardly worth it). Though, has anyone tried it with Time of Needs rune for Mantra of Healing?


  9. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    Yes i did ; i had 35 k hp 756 all resist and and quite alot of armor with that one Deadly reach rune ( 50% AR)
    I also had about 30 Evasion. but the most crucial and most painful Elemental Affixes on Champions cannot be dodged anyway. that being said it becomes useless in Inferno.

    all in all i had something like 88% Dmg Mititgation ( Armor * Resist ) effectively increasing my Hit Point and Healing effectivity by 8 times
    ( 11 k DPS )

    with that much mitigation Act 1 Inferno became quite Easy ; some Champ packs or bad pulls / Kiting plans could still kill me but it never felt like RNG killed me without a reason. however ; i could have never accumulated that much Vit / Mitigation / DPS without the GAH and i left over 3 Million Gold there. but even than i had to spend all my money on Items which would never have dropped in Act 1 Inferno or Hell for that matter ; so over all the progress I made in the course of Act 1 Inferno It was really frustrating. because once i entered Act 2 with my hard earned Gear it felt like joining Inferno for the very first time all over again.

    because not only is the champion hp about twice as high also the dmg is atleast twice as high. so uncontrollable factors like Waller / Jailer / and Vortex can easily kill in a few seconds in a fight which would take about 2 minutes even if you could pound the enemy continously without the fear of being killed in an instant. it just felt ridiculous because no matter how much i farmed i would never find gear in Act1 which would allow me to progress as Monk.

    as i said Monk has no good Dmg mitigation skills ; he can get a lot of dodge which no other class can get ; but as i said before alot of attacks in the game cannot be dodged on top of that Dodge has the most severe diminishing returns.
  10. knerf

    knerf IncGamers Member

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    For taking up a passive slot it doesn't provide a great benefit unless you have the perfect +all res +single res gear. It's just as easy to stack +all res and different res +single res gear to get all around res without losing the passive slot. A shield really helps since they can roll high +all res
  11. BAMFSpecialOps

    BAMFSpecialOps IncGamers Member

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    Wait.. what? It's just as easy to stack items with different resistances? So if you get 2 40@/60 single resist items, its just as easy/helpful to get 1 for fire and with for poison and have 100 of those 2, instead of getting 2 of the same and getting massive resistances across the board?... ok


  12. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    the problem is that the boni are not massive at all ... the single resist affixes have pretty much exactly the same value as an all resist affix. what does this do ? first of all it cuts off an additional affix off your item with and generally reduces your Item budget and it cuts down on the affix permutation which are useful to the monk ....

    i can live with an Item having 100 dex 100 vit and 50 all resist and 300 dmg reflect.
    sure damage reflect is absolutely a trash affix for pretty much everyone. but i could live with it. most people have gear with suboptimal stats on it because this is an RNG game. but if you have only 4 affixes on an item and you need exactly 4 affixes to meet the required standart of an Passive . the odds of getting exactly those 4 affixes you need shrink dramatically.


    i dare you find an level 61 Chestpiece with ~100 dex / vit and 60 Fire resist / all resist ; its ****ing insanely rare and costs accordingly

    but how would you get that you've probably never been in inferno yet you know everything about how itemization and Mitgation multiplication with skills works across the board ofc.


    with my suggestion to improve single resist Affixes and changing one with everything. the required amount of Affix Permutation required to make this passive remotely work would shrink considerably ; and and it would generally improve the usability of single resist affix- items and thus making it less of an "odd duck" stat which which would also cut down on its special place in the D3 GAH economy.
  13. knerf

    knerf IncGamers Member

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    I think that you are right and stacking all res/1 single res may be the best way to go. I'll to switch my gear over to a single res set as I move further into A2, but for now I still have 500-600 resists across the board. My current equipment doesn't help for the passive bonus. I'm just looking into how the % reduction scales with increasing resists. I'll post the charts shortly
  14. knerf

    knerf IncGamers Member

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    So here are some charts with res with no equipment up to fully geared. It looks like the scaling changes once you hit 100 resistance. Maybe it will change again after 1k resist or there is a resistance cap? I will add some more numbers if I can get my res over 1k
  15. BAMFSpecialOps

    BAMFSpecialOps IncGamers Member

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    I still don't get why you need some 1k resists like OP was crying about.
    Yeah you can stack higher, but most will keep a base of 600, then worry about stats/life/armor over more resists.

    @White.. you can drop the 'iRgod' talk anytime. Already said I have solo'd Hell and working my way through Inferno, but instead you try to be some tough 'elite' player cause you rode a party into Inferno. Funny cause the people who cry about Inferno are the same people who were up in arms about how easy the demo was, and how they wanted Inferno to be so hard and tough!.. now that it is... well here is the result.

    Why not look for armor with just 1 of those stats to start? Dex/res/all res are around, same with vit. Yes things are going to be expensive.. but thats no reason to nerf the monks more.
  16. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    well ye thanks your advice is so helpful. not at all actually you have not even arrived in act 2 yet you know anything about it ? its not challanging at all its a gear check ; it has nothing to do with skill. you can simply not attack a Molten / Elec / even with Tank gear ; because your face gets melted immediatly ; and thats with tank gear and tank specc. meaning that i dont even have that much dps to begin with. and the Champs in Inferno also have twice the hp. so not only is the burst dmg of the enemy champs so high that i could easily die 1 sec of incaution; the fight would also take me like 6 minutes for single champion pack of flawless combat.

    second my suggestion would not be a nerf it would be a Buff but you just don't have the brains to see it. my suggested changes would actually provide a real bonus and not just a trade of affixes. but apparently you are to dense and think that facts that are incovinient with your view can be laid out as opinion. you offer no constructive critique at all you dont even understand the implication and meaning of my suggestion.

    there are just things that are fundamentally different for all the classes as far as Melee classes go which are required to go into melee range to do anything in the first place, the Barbarian atleast has scaling heals and sufficient skills / passives which really multiply his the Mitigation of his Gear. The Barbarians Heals also scale with his hitpoints. even if he hits only hits 2 targets with his revenge skill he is healing himself for more than most variations of Breath of heaven which does not even have a cooldown. His armor Passives generally provide more armor ; and Superstition goes beyond the boundaries of Resistances making it a Elemental dmg resist multiplyer of its own.


    I myelf have 756 All resist 6 k armor selfbuffed 35 k hp and 11,5 k dps but that is with a specc which is barely capable of dealing dmg and i get still onehit in Inferno. I am completely uncapable of farming gear in Act 1 which would be an upgrade to me ; and even on the AH i'd be hard pressed to sell it with a profit sufficient enough to keep up with the increasing inflation. and i have to deal with Champions of 850 k HP and thats not even with the Affix "more Life".

    I progressed farther in Inferno with my recently leveled Demon Hunter and a 950 dps bow than with my Monk with whom i spend 3 times more time at progressing.
  17. BAMFSpecialOps

    BAMFSpecialOps IncGamers Member

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    It would be a nerf. Your idea is if you have 1 high resistance then the game ''levels'' out the rest, which OwE takes that 1 high resistance and boosts it EVERYWHERE else. So hard to understand.

    How are you incapable of farming act 1? I would have to say its your playstyle as others with worse stats are doing just fine. You should easily be able to deal with the SK or even Butcher runs with those stats.

    Again there you go with the 'herp derp i r act 2' crap. I don't care I'm not there, I will be and I'll deal with the challenge when I get there.


    Edit:Yes Monks got screwed with the nerf to MoH, that is completely ruined now and our heals suck. Don't like it, don't play it. No one is forcing you to.
  18. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    well than you didnt read my initial post or didnt understand it if you think that its a nerf and you certainly have no clue about itemiation; second you can still easily tune numbers this is mainly a concept.
    third iam easily able to farm act 1 but the drops are just not good enough i havent found a single upgrade in 10 Jailer / butcher runs

    the base item level is barely any better than act 4 hell ; 70% of all items are not even Item level 60 whereas i would need about Ilvl 61 to proceed in the first place. and just because you are ignorant of Act2 doenst mean that it's suddenly a point in your favor ..
  19. BAMFSpecialOps

    BAMFSpecialOps IncGamers Member

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    This ain't some point race. Don't need some stupid remarks about how cool/godly you are for being in act 2, when you can't even handle it.

    What am I Not understanding? You want like 300+ single resistance items... then for Blizz to be smart enough to redo OwE to ''balance'' out the resistances. Which you would STILL be likely stacking 1 resistance high and having OwE apply it across the board, yet in a ****tier fashion.
  20. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    well you are the one who is desperately trying to discerdit me with your derogatory bull**** do you think your opinions somehow gain credibility by victimizing yourself ? ; i don't give a crap how you interpret my progress ; I am saying that i've been there that I've done that and that i still do worse than most other classes on an equal or even worse item level. my beef is the with the insufficient Mitigation multiplyer of the Monk and the Special Needs of OWE which are contradictory of how Blizzard chose to Itemize.

    second OWE would not be exactly the same because All resist would still grant you 1/3 more value bonus over Single resist and leaves a lot more room for compromise when it comes to the rating of an item not just for monk but for all classes currently a single resist stat on say an VIT / INT / Socket item has as much value as dmg reflect + xp or pickup radius, because the value of that one single resist is so low that it can be easily considered a lost affix slot.

    It might be that the Item Budget says that a rare item with 600 dmg reflect and 7 pick up radius is worth Itemlevel 60 but we all know that these affixes are useless.




    Edit :
    I mean have you even seen how easy it is for Barbs to gear up ? its so simple that most of the times even Magical Items with the right Affix combination do suffice to meet the needs of their Mitigation Mulitiplyer skills
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJABgFLV9U&feature=plcp

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