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No talk about trading on forums?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 Market & Economy Discussion Forum' started by ahwolf, Apr 26, 2012. | Replies: 21 | Views: 2675

  1. ahwolf

    ahwolf IncGamers Member

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    No talk about trading on forums?

    With the Beta going open during the weekend recently my enthusiasm about D3 has risen through the roof. Used to play D2 a lot and even with the limited content in OB my temperature has risen a few degrees, I`m foaming at the mouth and i`m not capable of non D3 related conversation anymore. The most fun I had with D2 was trading on the forum (Diabloii.net). I would actually spend more time on the ETF then ingame and therefore I was looking if the forum still existed. I soon found out that Diablii.net was now IncGamers and apparently even my account was still working.

    Since then I have been reading these forums franticly and I was curious about the following: When people talk about trade here and compare D3 with D2 there are a few key elements that keep returning. GAH, RMAH and trade games. It seems the majority here prefers GAH and RMAH above the trade channels and/or trade games we had in D2. I feel the same way if the comparison is just between a random trade game and the AH, be it gold or real money. D2 was full of dupes and idiots so a completely anonymous and save AH is a blessing as such. However for me personally trade games and an anonymous AH are both way less enjoyable then the social happening of trading on the forum. Mind you that I traded exclusively here because of the mature, trustworthy and helpful people. I tried JSP2 once and even though a trade would yield about 4 times as much runes I didn`t like the place, the people and the attitude.

    The thing is, hardly anyone here speaks about D3 trade forums. I took a look at my old ETF forum and it was still very much alive. Even after all these years I recognized the names of the moderators and also few players. So I guess I just have a few questions.

    - Are there still people out there that prefer the social time consuming way of trading and bartering above the fast and anonymous AH? The late night strolls across the market, the friendly salespeople and conversation.

    - Will there be a trade section here like there is still for the different D2 realms?

    - Did I just overlook any topics regarding this? (did search pretty thoroughly in my opinion, but I do tend to be somewhat on the vague side of life. So could just be me while there is a whole section on this topic)


    I have no problem with the AH, in fact I used to play the market pretty successfully in WoW. When all other content had gotten me bored I would still spend at least an hour a day walking from mailbox to auctioneer. But it never gave me the satisfaction I experienced on the ETF forums.


    Would love to hear some opinions on this. :wave:

    AHWolf
  2. FizzyBubbly

    FizzyBubbly IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    I find a major Shift that may occur in the trading forums. My opinion is Based on what I have seen in a game called Magic the Gathering.
    This is a trading card game and at the moment the're are many web sites that buy and sell specific cards to consumers. Think of these cards as items in D3. Years ago these websites where almost non existent so you couldn't easily look up the monetary value of a specific card or item. This made trading based on this formula personal value = personal value. Now with the ability to look up the monetary value of cards quickly the trading formula has become Monetary Value = Monetary Value.

    How does this relate to D3 Trading?
    Consider the GAH/RMAH a price guide for trades. People will look to it to see what the going rate for their item is and try to recieve items of equal monetary value rather then focusing on personal value. For example: If you really wanted Axe of Kickass and you have Sword of GG to trade you may be willing to make it because you personally value the Axe higher then the sword. Yet if I told you that the sword is being sold right now on the AH for 2 times the value of the Axe you will most likely want something else in addition to the axe for trading your sword away.

    I believe, not all, but many trades will move in this direction.
  3. semakka

    semakka IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    I beleive that trading on forums will be, in the best case, very limited, because of the both AH.

    One guy have the axe of doom with, let's say, 4 random properties, and wants to change it for a bow or staff with properties usefull for him.First thing he will do is to check GAH, to see the prices for comparable axes that he have and staffs that he needs.It will be extremely unlikey for him NOT to find what he wants.
    Now, with ALL players having acces to GAH (and we are millions) the only reliable items to be traded are the MOST rare ones.Those MOSt rare ones will also be the most priced ones, in gold or real money.

    For anything not rare enough (like only 2-3 BEST axes and 2-3 BEST staffs in game) both GAH and RMAH will have enough of them.

    Even assuming that 2 guys wanna trade 2 almost-the-best items (GAH have 5-6 of each listed) ...how would they cut the deal ? Looking at the prices in GAH.The axe sells for 1 million gold and the staff for 2 million gold.Will the trade be done for axe+1 mil gold for the staff ?
    What if the axe really worth 1,5 mil and the staff 1,8 mil? What if the next day the prices changes ?

    A game with AH kills forum trading.Only extremely rare items could worth trading using forums.A game with BOTH GAH and RMAH kills the forum trading for good.

    If my staff can be sold for 100$ (being rare as hell), why would i change it for an axe + some gold ? I would change it for the axe + some REAL MONEY...but how?

    And the point is...why lose TIME looking for a trade ? Why lose time negociating the trade differences in gold ?

    I have GAH and RMAH.

    So forum trading will be close to non-existant.Most likley not being at all.
  4. ahwolf

    ahwolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    Perhaps you are right, altough I hope not. What you describe is how the hive mind works unfortunately. For me trading was perhaps even more about the trading than the deal itself. I love gathering stuff, I love making large post with multiple items. Sometimes even a theme or a story attached to it. There would be prizes to win and large give aways. I'm not always looking for the best deal.

    AH simply can not compare to that in my opinion. A bidding war (for example) is just not the same if its bereft of emotion.
    Ahh... nostaliga...:cloud9:
  5. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    Some might try to circumvent the AH fees by going to forums. But I'm afraid it'll be much less effective than in D2 since for many trades the faster and lower-effort sale will justify paying the extra fee. If you have a hard time selling you might compromise for a lot more than just 15% of the item's value, making the GAH a better solution for you than the forums. But if an item is very expensive, or if you're looking for truly rare items, you might want to give the forums a quick chance before you go "damn, nobody here sells/buys this sort of stuff since it's too rare and there are too few people here" and go back to eat the GAH fee. Then again maybe you'll be lucky and find someone who buys/sells such an item and save yourself a lot of gold (15% of a lot is a lot :) ).
  6. semakka

    semakka IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    I feel you, ahwolf.Yep, forum trading is nice and such...but the forum trading is good if there is no AH.

    Before stock market, people were meeting face to face to trade goods (goods for goods or for money).They were meeting, talking, etc...but lose a lot of time.If someone from NY wants to buy 1% from some company based in LA, all he need to do is buy 1% of the stocks listed.Without it, he would have to travel to LA.

    Same with D3.Once there is AH (and not one, but both), forum trading will be very very low.Only very very rare stuf might trade this way...but imagine how hard will be to find a guy who have a very rare item.He could sell it and never ever even reading the trade forum, from various reasons (he doesn't read forums, he reads another forums, he lack time, he doesn't want to complicate his life, etc) but main reason will be :

    There is a Auction House in the game.
  7. Eagle

    Eagle IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    There is a niche for direct trading in D3. The 15% AH fees mean you can trade directly with someone and both parties can get a better deal than they would through the AH.

    Obviously the question then is, is it worth the effort for the bit you save / bit more you make?

    I don't imagine out of AH trading will be big, but there will be some small demand.
  8. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    The more expensive the item, the more you save from directly trading, but the more difficult it is to find a buyer/seller. We'll have to wait and see which argument wins out and whether direct trading will be common/practical/useful at some kind of level.
  9. jwfcp

    jwfcp IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    expensive items still fall under the rule of 15% vs $1.50, but due to the ten item limit I expect alot of spillover to boards, it will be interesting to see what the currency becomes- gold? blue mats? yellow mats? straight up barter for the items each party is explicitly after?
  10. semakka

    semakka IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    The thing is, for 2 guys to use a direct trade of items, there have to be some conditions :
    -both items to be very rare and expensive (atm, there is a flat fee of 1.25 $ for items...not really a reason to save 1.25 $ avoiding the fee);
    -both players to prefer trading (if one prefers money or gold, he will most likely not trade);
    -both players to read at least on daily basis the SAME trading forums;
    -both items to be fairly equal in value (either gold or money, otherwise they have to negociate a difference in gold when trading - not hard, but one say its 10,000 the other is 15,000 - annoying !);
    -both items need to be aquired in same time or a small enough time frame (if one drops now, and the potential item to de traded drops 1 week after...).

    The only reliable trading method will be between members of same group that play togheter the game.

    The flat fee for succesful item auctions is 1.25 $.Saving 1.25 $ for a 200 $ item + 0.30 $ fixed PP fee + 2,9% additional PP fee means exactly 7.35 $. Is this enticing enough to prefer a trade instead a sale ? Probably not.

    The hardest part will be to convice the guy who have the item you need...not to sell it but to trade it.
  11. DoxieVon

    DoxieVon IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    Trading sites will still be around and will possibly even thrive. The main reason is that hardcore characters have no RMAH. I expect that everyone who plays hardcore will flock to them, as gold for the "best" items isn't what you always want... you want different items instead. Also its a habit of every d2 player to try to trade the good stuff they get but don't want.... habits are hard to break.
  12. semakka

    semakka IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    If the HC players will trade OUTSIDE the game in a manner that points to even 100,000 $ income for Blizzard / month...HC will have RMAH.

    You think that a BIG POPING WINDOW with : "If you choose to buy items or gold for real money while using a Hardcore mode character, Blizzard cannot be charged if you lose all the items upon death, losing all the money spent", along ToS and EULA specifications about the risks of using RMAH for a HC character, won't be more then enough for Blizzard to keep them safe for any law suit?

    The WHOLE point of RMAH was to GAIN money from selling/buying INSIDE the game.If HC players will sell/buy/trade a good ammount of items OR will have the INTENT to sell/buy/trade items or gold...there will be a HC RMAH so fast that you won't beleive it.

    It the outside trading will be in small volumes, HC won't have a RMAH...

    However...HC players will have a GAH.There will be a place to sell and buy, just will be for gold only.

    The thigs is, and remains : Auction House in a stable economy KILLS outside game trading.

    You think that I, personaly, will not prefer to trade an item instead buying it? Yep, ofc i will, but it will be like i will wanna trade meat for potatoes in real life now.
    If i can sell my meat for money and with money i buy potatoes...what is the POINT of trading?

    Same with something expensive.If i can sell a plane for money and with the money i buy a yacht...would i TRADE the plane for a yacht?

    Sorry, but forum trading will be used as much as people trade planes for yachts or meat for potatoes.


  13. AKUder

    AKUder IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    The inevitable problem with trade/barter is that items are rarely equivalently valued. So, in almost all transactions someone is losing. Most people have that understanding, and so with an alternative of Gold/RM to easily market value, people will be less inclined to trade.
  14. riptide

    riptide IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    I would say forums would have a better understanding of an items true value compared to the RMAH/GAH . You would have to know the most popular builds;The weapon(armor is universal) types for those builds and the desired mods for those builds; How rare the properties are; and the range of the best properties. Then you can come to the conclusion of what it's "true" value is. The people who would likely know all this would be a part of some forum community.

    I have made a lot of gold just on the AH in WoW because people don't know the actual value of things.


  15. DoxieVon

    DoxieVon IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    how about as much as people trade red paperclips for houses? http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com/

    Also placing a gold value on something like a wind-force might equate to a number so high that most people will not pool that much gold... and will instead hold on to drops to trade for it.


  16. DoxieVon

    DoxieVon IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    While its true items may rarely be equivalent, everyone who makes a trade on does it on terms that are acceptable. This also let people assign the value to items they think it should have.

    Another way to look at it is trading cuts out the middle man(gold). The stars may align and there might be 3 people looking to sell item X on the auction house, you have in your possession item x. You want item Y and think its ~ to X in value. If there are no Y's on the auction house, selling item x right now is likely a poor decision, as to actually sell it you might have to get in a undercutting war with the other 3 people. Item Y might also be overvalued next time its posted. So you could deal with the risks involved in converting x into gold and purchasing y at next available time, or you could head to a trading forum and post what your looking for/want and wait to get the guaranteed good deal your looking for.


  17. AKUder

    AKUder IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    The paperclip thing is a cool story, but the trades involved more value than just a paperclip for a house, or a snowglobe for a movie deal, or a movie deal for a house. There was publicity involved in each trade.

    If the gold price is high, the item will most likely be sold on the RMAH. I'm not saying there won't be trading, there will, but with the RMAH, it will occur much less frequently than it did in D2.


  18. DoxieVon

    DoxieVon IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    mos def RMAH is a game changer, most of what i was talking about was for hardcore mode which as of now will not have a RMAH... Although I'm sure after a few weeks of getting spammed by Hardcore item/gold selling sites players will beg to have it implemented.


  19. Eagle

    Eagle IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?


    Not for people that don't want to use the RMAH at all, and there will be at least a few. If you aren't using the RMAH then every AH trade you make is on the GAH and is subject to the 15% gold fee.


  20. semakka

    semakka IncGamers Member

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    Re: No talk about trading on forums?

    This just makes everything i said right.

    Some guy traded a paperclip for a house.Question : how many people managed to this spomenthing like this? 1,2, a dozen? One million people ?
    Assuming 1 million (unreal figure) people out of 7 BILLION...it is like...0.014 %.Assuming 1 (THE real figure), is like...oups, to many zeroes.

    So, yes , i will say again :

    Sorry, but forum trading will be used as much as people trade planes for yachts or meat for potatoes.

    One trade every year :D


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