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!!! New trading rules + useful information - last change Jun 2 2011

Discussion in 'Europe Standard - Ladder' started by krischan, May 1, 2008. | Replies: 5 | Views: 33669

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  1. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    These are the new trading rules, made by all trading mods together. They are nearly identical on Europe, US East and US West (the do-not-trade lists might differ). Please read all of them again, even if you believe to be familiar with them !

    Please have a particularly close look on the bumping rules, the new maximum of 2 threads per 24 hours and about what happens if you offer or ask for an item from the DNT list.

    Also, please check out the 'Trade rating how to and FAQ' here.


    Even though these rules are already in effect, there is a probation period until May 8th 2008 during which we will apply the old rules or the new ones, depending on the case. However, the rules have become less severe for us Europeans (except for the new maximum of 2 threads in 24 hours), so I don't expect any problems, except for perhaps a few reports which will lead to no consequences.



    __________________________________________​



    TRADING RULES V2.0 (May 1st 2008)

    Not having read these rules is no excuse if you happen to break them, and may get you banned, so make sure to read them in advance of posting.


    DiabloII.Net forum rules – You’ll want to read this first (of course you already read it when you made your account right?)

    General rules:
    • Do not Flame. We want this forum to be as friendly as possible.
    • Do not post OT. This is a trading forum, the OT thread is stickied at the top.
    • Do not post price checks. There's a forum just for that here, the Trade Values Forum.
    • Do not hijack others threads for your own needs and requirements
    • Do not trade for friends. You may trade only items that are in your possession and for which you make the decisions. If your friends want to trade here they need to create an account for themselves.
    • Do not bump any post.
    • Use the “Report this post to a moderator” link at the top right of the post to report any posts that violate the rules (don’t use someone else’s rule violation to violate the anti-flaming rule)
    • Eth armours socketed using the cube recipe may be traded here.
    • Tell the exact stats of the items you're selling. Selling an ed/ias(or max) armor on non-ladder without stats automatically makes us take it as 4x40/15s and that will have consequences.
    • Do not offer items elsewhere at the same time as you're offering them here and/or Marketplace. That also means you don't bring offers from other places here. If you offer items elsewhere at the same time and you have got offers at the time it's discovered, you will be banned for 3 days. If there haven't been offers so far, your thread just gets closed.
    • Please give your items a fair chance to be traded. If you are starting a thread, you have to wait for at least 12 hours before retracting an item from your list. Of course, you can decline any offer during these 12 hours, but your items are considered as still being offered, so you cannot offer them elsewhere during that time.
    • Tell where your items are from. People are going to ask this anyway.
    • When posting a trade, tell what you're looking for. "make offers" is not helping. Do us a favour and say what you need. Same goes when you're looking for items, state what you can offer.
    • All trades should be arranged inside threads (no where else), before the deal occurs.
    • The same person posting threads successively (even with different items on them) is also considered bumping.
    • Do not start more than 2 threads within 24 hours, that's considered as spamming.
    • Do not, by ANY means, reopen a trade when you’ve made a deal. Sellers have all the power in the trade, they can accept or reject offers, not trade at all, repost items later, do whatever they please. So when you close a trade, stick to it. If you fast closed an item and then someone else offers more, it was the seller’s fault not to wait enough time, not the buyer’s fault. Buyers, after the deal is closed, must pay what was agreed too. You can ask the trade partner to allow a retraction (and perhaps offer a compensation), but if he insists on trading and you still refuse, it will lead to a permanent ban, even for trades of a low value.
    • All trades should be done inside threads. Reasons: we mods can’t control or see the fairness on trades done by other means, be them PMs* sent between members, forum trades where the starting point was a thread here, or any other means. To make it easy on traders, I’d suggest that IF someone is contacted via PM or via bnet* about any trade, you can even agree on it but use the threads to consolidate it before the trade is caried out. This keeps non-ETF* scammers out, makes all the trades much more understandable and cleaner.
    • Do not ask for free items. You can offer items for free, however, but please don't offend people who already offered an item for a price because they are not as wealthy as you to be able to offer it for free.
    Bumping

    As stated in the rules, bumping is not allowed. Bumping is posting for the purpose of bringing the thread to the top. This is often (but not always) done by making another posting right after one of yourself. Reposting a thread is also a kind of bumping, but in a broader sense. You have the ability to edit threads for an hour after you posted them, so if your posting is the last one in the thread, any updates to your thread need to be done during this time by editing the existing post. If you need to do updates to your thread right after a posting of your own after this 1 hour period or if, it must be in concordance with the following rules:
    • Adding useful information: After 6 hours
    • Reposting a thread, partly or completely, the old one and all of the offers in it are cancelled (deals have to be fulfilled, of course): 24 hours after your last posting.
    • Bumping of any kind (advantage to 2.: thread continues): After 48 hours.
    Any bumped thread will be locked, and 2 locked threads within 30 days for rules violations will get you a 3 day temp ban. Any locked post may not be reposted for at least 24 hours. You may not repost any thread or parts of it for at least 24 hours from your last post in it.

    Ladder and non-ladder We have a NL subforum now, so please start your thread in the right forum. It's no longer necessary to put “[L]” as the first part of your thread title for Ladder trades and “[NL]” for non ladder trades. Cross-trades can be out in any of the two forums, but it's probably better to start them in the less crowded one.

    Do Not Trade (DNT) List
    • Any hacked item, any duped item, any bugged item (including Zod bugged items), any item bought for real world money.
    • Battlenet accounts
    • Any pre v 1.09 items
    • All non Diablo2 virtual items. You may not sell your items for real world money. No cd keys. No items from other games.
    • Accounts made by yourself. It is only allowed to rush/level/perm characters on accounts made by the person who requests it, as selling self-made accounts might lead to scams involving password recovery.
    • Items Acquired through the use of a bot, hack or any dupe method. We can't force anybody not to use hacks, cheats or bots, but if you are using them, you are not welcome in this forum, so stay out of here ! This includes the use of Maphack and variants, as well as d2loader, and will get you banned permanently.
    Some items not allowed to be traded on NL - Please make sure to check the link above for a complete listing
    • 1.08 Items
      Until further notice we will no longer allow ANY .08 Items.
    • +1 Lightning Skill +39 life Grand Charm
    • 383 Poison Damage Small Charm
    • 3/20/20 Small Charms
    • 290 Poison Damage Small Charm
    • 40% Enhanced Damage/15 IAS Jewels
    • 40% Enhanced Damage/15 Max Jewels
    • Items socketed with any 40/15 jewels
    • 15 max/ 15% IAS Jewels
    • 15 All Resistances/ 15% IAS Jewels
    • Equipment socketed with the mentionend items
    Offering or asking for items from the DNT list earns you a 3 day ban on the first offense and a permanent ban on the second !

    Runes and SoJ are allowed to be traded, even though their origin is doubtful.

    In some cases we close threads which contain items which are not on the list because we are of the opinion that the items are probably dupes, e.g. if somebody offers 10 Griefs in 15% BAs. We normally won't take further action other than closing the thread, but that depends on the circumstances.

    In case of doubts about offering or asking for particular items, ask us via PM.

    As always, if you get banned, even temporarily banned, and make a new account we will ban you again and also change the status of the temporarily banned account to permanently banned.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011
  2. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Re: !!! NEW TRADING RULES !!! NEW TRADING RULES !!! V2.0, May 1st 2008

    GUIDELINES

    Guidelines are NOT rules. They just try to come up with the best way of dealing with other people and trades. You CAN’T point people here and force them to comply with all guidelines. “Breaking” a guideline won’t imply directly on a permanent or even a temporary ban automatically. It can happen, but it’s not to be expected.


    - Errors or bannable offenses by other poster(s) don’t mean you have the right to flame them. An error doesn’t justify another. Even when calling offenders to attention, keep your language and manners at least civil, no matter how right you think you are. Use the report post feature to warn mods about problems in trades instead of flaming or trolling in threads. Trolling in threads will give troubles to the troll as well as to the offender.

    - Don’t use words like “goodly”, “godly”, “gosu”, l33t speak or any other TC* slang or attitude when posting your items - we’re pretty much sick of TC’s practices here – this is one of the main reasons people come to our trade forums.

    - Try to post in proper English. We understand that most of the people here are not native English speakers so that doesn't mean perfect grammar or anything like that. However, using shortened speech where you constantly shorten words to single characters and similar things is horrible to read for everyone and especially for the majority of people here who are not native English speakers.

    - Be civilized with your answers, whether you are the seller, buyer or someone who is participating in the thread. If someone might make an offer that is way too low for you, you can comment about it but don't start flaming or swearing and vice versa.

    - Seller: unless you REALLY know what you’re looking for or you’re pretty desperate, try not to fast close any item you’re selling. Fast close deals are 99% of the time a bad deal for the seller. Be patient and you’ll get the right price for your item.

    - Don't offer PCs* on items you are trading. If you're interested in an item, you're not trusted to be objective enough to give a fair price.

    - Always. ALWAYS check if the account you’re trading with is an account posted on this thread link ---> ETF member contact information & scammer warning or exactly the one mentioned by the other party in the trade thread. Never trust someone who just contacts you on bnet claiming to be someone from forums unless you know for sure it is that person.

    - Always report posts when you’re not sure whether you should or not. You can report a post by pressing the exclamation mark (!) above the post you want to report.

    - Glossary:
    • BM: Bad Manners. Everything you shouldn't do, the behaviour you shouldn't have.
    • B.net (bnet): normally mean when referring to Diablo II when playing online (like: “I’ll meet you on bnet”).
    • Botter: someone who uses a third-party program to illegally hunt for items on the game.
    • Dupe: Duplicated Item (copied illegally or due to a bug)
    • Duper: someone who is dedicated to create duplicated items.
    • ETF: European Trade Forum (this is this forum, where you are reading this post)
    • l33t: Annoying internet slang used by clueless people.
    • n00b: l33t word used by the same clueless people with intention of flaming someone new to some kind of internet environment.
    • gosu, godly, goodly: feeble attempt on promoting an item used by unimaginative people who have problems writing normal English.
    • PC: Price Check. This means a trader wants to know how much something is worth.
    • TC, TCs: Trade Channels – place where trades are done on bnet, like “European Ladder Trade Channel”. A place where you have scammers, cheaters, dupers and botters, and occasionally a nice trader/player (unfortunately minority).
    • WUG: "What you got?". Common bad manners bnet trade talk meaning "What do you have to offer?" – kind of speaking we DON’T want on this forum. Exterme case of BM.
    • WUW: "What you want?". Common B.Net Trade talk meaning "What do you want for that item?" – kind of speaking we DON’T want on this forum.

    For a comprehensive guide to abbreviations on the game, please read this post: Guide to Diablo II abbreviations

    Definition of FTs and Timing

    FT is the abbrevation for fast trade. (Note: That's only the case in Europe) However, FT only means that you have a deal on the spot if somebody makes the FT offer, not that the trade is actually to be performed quickly, although we agree that it would be good if it was like that. However, the problem with limited time on offers is that a trading party could simply go offline on bnet and let the trade fail if there already is a better offer. It would be hard to proove that the other party isn't online all the time.

    Anybody is still free to impose conditions like a deadline on an offer, but if just something like "FT" is mentioned, it doesn't imply a deadline. It just means that you have a deal which each party is obliged to complete. Of course, you are still expected to perform the trade in a reasonable amount of time. That means you have to trade as soon as possible, but in case you cannot find a common time to meet, you have 72 hours to complete a trade. It's a good idea to agree on a date for trading in advance if timing is critical.

    Rules and Reporting

    If you see somebody violating the trading rules, there is nothing wrong with a short comment about it, but please don't make a sarcastic or cynical comment about it or. Report it. Also, please don't predict or a particular behaviour from us, that will just lead to flames. What happens in such a case is solely our decision and within our responsibility.

    In case of issues which can be fixed by the seller himself (e.g. forgetting if it's ladder or not or if no needs or offers have been specified), inform him about it in a polite manner.

    A few things to add:

    Don't expect the mods to act when you make a deal and the items poof later or any kind of accident occurs. That's your risk ! Please don't discuss issues about perming, poofing and the like, we simply don't want to see these discussions here. If your items are a bit dubious, don't offer them here.

    There is a consensus among the mods not to arrange trades, so if you don't trust your trade partner, find a forum member to act as such. Also, the mediator is in no way responsible for poofed items, crashed games or any other loss of items. It's a matter of trust with respect to the mediator. Needless to say, it might be hard to find somebody who is willing to mule back and forth huge amounts of items.

    If you get scammed, you need watertight proof to make us act on it, like screenshots with /whois and /time info and public postings of the trade partner containing his Battlenet account. Forwarded PMs from them aren't enough, as they can be faked. Just saying that you have been scammed might make us raise an eyebrow, but nothing else will probably happen.

    Be careful !
  3. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Re: !!! NEW TRADING RULES + LINK TO TRADE RATING FAQ !!! V2.0, March 10th 2009

    Latest change: Shopped items are on the DNT list now.
  4. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Re: !!! NEW TRADING RULES + LINK TO TRADE RATING FAQ !!! V2.0, March 10th 2009

    Regarding scams, there are a couple of tricks involving similarly looking accounts. The following ideas come to my mind to avoid that:

    1. Ask for the bnet account to be posted in public or via PM if it's not mentioned in the contact info sticky. In the latter case you can press the "report post" button to the right top of the PM (the one with a "!") to send it to the mods without a change. That report will be sent to all mods, so please write something like "To Krischan/Xora" in it, other mods won't act on ETF trading issues. Sending it to me via the forward button isn't a proof because you can theoretically change the forwarded message. Needless to say, you have to keep such a PM until you finished the trade. I for myself prefer public postings, as I don't really want to moderate my own trades (even though I will do that if I have to), that might lead to scam accusations towards myself.

    2. Insist on your trade partner to contact you via that account. I'm always doing that and I will refuse to trade if the account differs by just a single character. Ask him to use the mentioned account or to make a posting in the trading thread to clarify the situation (if it won't lead to an illegel bump).

    3. Keep your entry in the contact info sticky up to date.

    4. Add your trade partners to your f list, so you know if he is online (via /f l) while he contacts you. If you get whispered and he's not online, he's a scammer, but be a bit careful here. Stay polite until you are absolutely sure that you haven't made a mistake. it might just have been a typo by you or him.

    5. When being contacted, make the first reply with /w *account instead of /r, so you can be sure that he isn't a scammer who replaces an o with a 0, an I with an l, an m with r+n (all of which might look similar or identical) etc.

    6. On bnet, agree on a passworded bnet game to meet. Don't tell anybody else that name and expect the same from your trade partner, even if it's a trustful forum member. You might get accused of scamming if you do that and anything dubious happens. Of course, once you agreed on a game, you can log on with different accounts, as only you and your trading partner knows it. It's also a good idea to change the name/password pattern of your games.

    7. Drop trades are completely at your own risk, although you are pretty safe if all the above precautionary measures are taken. We have very few people here who will scam once they have built up a certain reputation in these forums, although people might behave like one for a few days or weeks and then try a scam, as there will not be not much they will lose with their account here. In case of any doubts, use the trade window and if that's not posssible (crosstrades, torch for torch trades etc), you are at your own.

    8. Avoid using accounts with ambiguous letters. For example, m looks like r+n, 0 looks like 0, I looks like i and perhaps also 1 etc. etc.

    9. If you want us to act on scams, you will have to do all of the above and prove it with screenshots involving information from /whois and /time. However, as you can theoretically produce fake accusations by purposely whispering the wrong guys (by doing the 0/o, l/I etc. trick yourself), there's always a certain doubt about it.
  5. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Re: !!! New trading rules + useful information !!! V2.2

    Just as in real life, some people are trustworthy, and others are not.

    If you think somebody has dubious items, no matter if through botting, duping, cheating, scamming or whatever, don't trade with them.

    However, once you have a deal, you cannot retract because of sudden suspicions.

    If you have evidence of cheating, then please send it to the Moderators of the Trade Forum concerned; we will investigate every PM we get. Do not make public accusations.

    We work hard here to ensure a legitimate trading community and appreciate trader's help in that because it is invaluable. While we will ban traders who cheat, we do need evidence to do so. On that basis, make your own decisions on whether you want to trade with someone.

    Do not let the 'too good to be true' deal fool you!
  6. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Re: !!! New trading rules + useful information !!! V2.2 (Oct 2nd 2010)

    The trading of quest rewards, keysets for torches and the like is now ALLOWED!
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