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New skills system

Discussion in 'Feedback, Suggestions & Support' started by Maurish, Feb 25, 2012. | Replies: 15 | Views: 6859

  1. Maurish

    Maurish IncGamers Member

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    New skills system

    Heya!

    Now that DiabloNut and Blizzard has updated their databases, I finally got to see the whole skills system. While it's generally good idea to keep the wiki up to date, I find that this change is rather weird and I'd prefer the current system.

    At the moment (in the Wiki), class skills are divided into categories by their type.

    • Barbarian has Fury Generating/Spending and Situational abilities.
    • Monk has Spirit Generating/Spending abilities and Mantras.
    • Demon Hunter has Hatred Generating/Spending and Discipline abilities.
    • Witch Doctor has Physical/Spirit realm and Command abilities.
    • Wizard has Signature spells, Offensive abilities and utilities.

    That list is easy to understand and if I'm choosing skills, I know exactly where to look. Do I need another way to generate a resource or maybe I'm not resource starved and could use another way to burn it? Maybe ability that will help me increase the odds of survival? I find it's quite easy to find the ability you're looking for from those three categories.

    Now, the new skills system is a tad confusing at times.
    I'll give some examples.
    Wizard has a category for Arcane. Great, my brain tells me that spells with arcane damage perhaps are there. Wrong! Arcane category includes abilities that have nothing to do with Arcane damage, they're just some abilities that used to be in the offensive category.
    The defensive category doesn't even have Energy Armor in there that increases your armor by 65%.
    All Mantras are now in Conviction. What was wrong with Mantra category? Why change it?

    There are so many categories that I just don't understand. I really wished they had kept the old system which was really obvious. If you look at the skills in Wiki, you can see they even tried to color code the categories.

    • Barbarian - orange, blue, green.
    • Witch Doctor - green, blue, orange.
    • Demon Hunter - yellow, red, purple.
    • Monk - blue, yellow, (Mantras).
    • Wizard - Doesn't seem to have color coding.

    While the new system might help choose skills for our moms, it really confuses the people who have more experience in games these. They call it user friendly, I call it confusing.

    So what do you think about keeping the skills in the categories they are at the moment? I just don't feel that it's necessary to update the wiki with this nonsense. Give me your opinion and if you feel that we should keep the wiki up to date no matter what then sure, we can make the categories more "user friendly". :wink:
     
  2. MrFrye

    MrFrye IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    Hello, Maurish. Glad you're still around.

    I didn't disappear, I just took an involuntary leave of absence (medical reasons). I just spent most of the day trying to catch up on all the changes that have happened in the past 5 months. Obviously, the big change is in the skill system. I understand your confusion; I share it at the moment, but give me a day or two to get reoriented and we'll work out a game plan.

    Also, now that I'm back, feel free to PM me at any time.
     
  3. Maurish

    Maurish IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    And I'm glad you're back!

    I've been avoiding updating the skills for the time being as I'm not 100% sure what to do with them. I've done some of the passives whenever I've had some free time and if possible, I'll finish those this week.

    I don't know how up to date you are but a lot has changed so take your time. :wink:
     
  4. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: New skills system

    We're going to revamp the skills categorization in the wiki to match the in-game version. Dumb though it is in some ways, readers will expect that kind of parallelism.

    Updates to the skills pages have been waiting on the diablonut DB to crack the new formating system and layout. That was accomplished late last week, but the code to incorporate that into the DW isn't yet ready. Rush said it's on the list and should be ready soon.

    Once it is it'll just be some cut and paste to replace the code currently on the pages with the new code, which will then cleverly update automatically every patch for the forseeable future, just as the items and other DN code stuff does now, thus saving us much labor long term.

    If someone wants to update the skills navigation boxes at the bottom of the pages, that's something quick and failry easy, just to catch up with the # rearranging bliz did in the new patch.

    I'm debating a much expanded navigation for those lower portions; with all of the skill rune effects listed. Not sure how easy to navigate that big a list would be, but I think people will ultimately want easy clicking to individual effects, rather than trying ot remember the base skill, and then clicking that page to get to the effects.

    So each skill in the nav would be something like:

    Arcane Orb (2)
    * Arcane Nova (7)
    * Tap the Source (15)
    * Obliteration (21)
    * Arcane Orbit (27)
    * Celestial Orb (36)

    In theory 6 columns in a table, with 4 or 5 skills per column, each of them with 5 rune effects... Lotta words. Other alternative is to put tabs into each class's skill listing, so they'd be much like the current (cumbersome) game nav, with primary, secondary, defensive, etc, tabs, each of whcih would list the skills/effects in each tab.

    And then of course all those pages will want updates, with screenshots and a video, once available. I've done half a dozen of them in recent days, with beta info and images, but that'll be a long term project.
     
  5. MrFrye

    MrFrye IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    I can certainly take a stab at the skills navboxes. It shouldn't be too hard. After I'm done with that, I can add rune effects to one class (say, Barb) just so we can all see what it looks like, and how much we like it.

    Thanks, Maurish. I was going to mention Rush's DB work, but Flux beat me to it. I've already asked Rush to let me know when he has the new code ready for pulling skill info from the DB. As soon as that's ready, we can start adding it to the skill pages.
     
  6. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: New skills system

    Code for inserting the whole skill and rune effects from the DN db is now live. It's very simple, just put the class and skill name in. Cleave

    <skill class="Barbarian">Cleave</skill>

    (I don't know the syntax for multi-word skills or the WD or DH. Rush is checking.

    This is still rough; I don't know if we can change it to auto-sort by level instead of alphabetical by name. (You can sort by whatever using the DN site, but we want the default on wiki insert to be by level.)

    Also, we need a way to insert the individual rune effects for those pages, rather than just the whole block of 5 every time. But it's a WiP, tech-wise.
     
  7. Maurish

    Maurish IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    I was actually hoping for a way to import the data from DiabloNut. Great that it has already been worked on, it will save us going through every skill whenever there are some minor balancing changes (and I'm assuming there will be a lot).

    I guess same thing can be done with passives once skills are working as it should. I'll refrain from making any big changes to the passives then and will work on it once we can implement something similar to the wiki.
     
  8. MrFrye

    MrFrye IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    Well, guys, I've made some progress. I updated the skill nav boxes to reflect the new organization. That was easy. Trying to come up with a way to implement Flux's wish to implement all the rune effects is a bit more difficult.

    First, just to see what it would look like, I tried placing all the rune effects on a single tab. And while it's not done, I think you can judge what it would look like:

    Template:Skills_navbox_Barbarian_11

    In case you were wondering, the "11" is short for 2011, which this isn't. Shut up, I'm still getting caught up. Personally, I think it looks pretty ridiculous. It's much too big, especially for the classes that have as many as 5 skills per category. So I can up with a compromise, which you can see on the Bash page. At the bottom. Again it's not done, but if you like it, I can fill in the details. Also, the label "Barbarian skill classes" is a placeholder for a more meaningful label. Help me out, Flux.

    Anyway, I think this makes a nice compromise, in that it allows people to see the skill rune effect names without forcing them to do so. And, of course, feel free to make suggestions for formatting (or other) changes. I'm not convinced that centering the tabs is the best way to do it.
     
  9. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: New skills system

    Yeah, that's fairly ginormous to the point of fugly and unwieldy. As she said.

    So probably we'll want to go with individual tabs for all the 5 or 6 categories of skills per char. I like the column with all the passive/active always visible; have to play around with the layout to see how best to show that. I haven't had time to look at it myself, yet.


    In other news, the base skills are all working now. Multiword skills just get a space between them. For instance, Grasp of the Dead. Note the no-space for WD. Same for DH. The skill runes are now default sorted by clvl also, which is a fix since yesterday.

    <skill class="WitchDoctor">Grasp of the Dead</skill>

    If someone has time/interest, feel free to plug those into as many pages as you can stand. That code should be good forever; so we'll never have to do this again. (he said, hopefully.)

    The individual rune effects code isn't ready yet, so don't worry about those subpages. It's coming soon.
     
  10. MrFrye

    MrFrye IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    I'll start on the Barb skills. And since a lot of skills were shuffled around, I'll make sure the skill levels and other minor details are correct as well.

    I forgot to mention in my last post: the tabbed navbox Template:Skill_navtab_Barbarian is on its own page at the moment, but if you like it (and I think Flux said he did), I'll just add the code to the Barb skills navbox. Which is why it doesn't have an editlink.

    Also, the titles "Primary", "Secondary", "Defensive", etc. have links, but I'm guessing we're not going to need individual pages for those. It should be sufficient to link them to the appropriate sections in the Barbarian skills page. Once that page is updated, of course.
     
  11. Maurish

    Maurish IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    Here's our progress so far:
    [STRIKE]Barbarian[/STRIKE]
    [STRIKE]Demon Hunter[/STRIKE]
    [strike]Monk[/strike]
    [strike]Witch Doctor[/strike]
    [strike]Wizard[/strike]

    While doing Demon Hunter skills, I noticed a few oddities, very similar to the issue here: http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?823488-Minor-suggestion-for-skills

    Note that these are all very minor issues.
    1) Companion has "This skill is affected by your characters: Attacks per second (set to 1 for example above)" both in the skill's tooltip and in one of the rune tooltips. It's fine in the skill's tooltip but creates confusion if it's also in one of the rune's tooltip.
    2) Cluster Arrow has "This skills is affected by your characters: Ballistics" in Maelstrom rune tooltip. Ballistics increases the damage of your rockets so it should be in Shooting Stars tooltip since that's the rune with rockets. I might be wrong here but I don't think Maelstrom is affected by this passive.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2012
  12. MrFrye

    MrFrye IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    ...And i was just about done with the Wizard skills when patch 14 came out. And they reorganized all the skills. Again. Apparently they hate us.

    Anyhoo, I just finished updating the skill navboxes. Again.

    Maurish, that extra text in some of the skill descriptions pulled from the DB was added by Dorjan (from the "Var Stats" field in the DB file). Since some of it is out of date, I've pretty much flat-out asked him to remove it.
     
  13. Maurish

    Maurish IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    Been busy the whole week and spent my free time playing ME3. :whistling:

    Anyway, Frye managed to complete Wizard skills and I'll try to get another class done during the next week.

    Also, while having a look at some of the skills, I noticed that the runes are no longer sorted by level. They were about a week ago when Flux said that but they seem to be sorted by the rune icon at the moment.
     
  14. MrFrye

    MrFrye IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    I'm pretty sure the runes have always been sorted by icon. However, for a couple of them (like Magic Missile), those two sorts match. Maybe you stumbled upon one of those.

    Also, most of the Barb and WD skills need another pass to fix their skill levels. Grrrr. Here's hoping this is the last beta patch. I think I'm going to make a pass through the passives.
     
  15. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: New skills system

    I was going to do all of the Monk skill pages, and of course there's a problem with DN right now, so the skills aren't inserting properly. ETA to fix that is tomorrow morning.

    Also, I talked to Rush about the tabs within tabs navigation, and he says it should work fine, if the syntax is precise. (It's very easy to screw it up; I can't get them to work without endless trial and error, but I hate coding.) Nothing has been disabled in the wiki code to disallow them, at least.
     
  16. MrFrye

    MrFrye IncGamers Member

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    Re: New skills system

    I don't know if Rush did anything, but it's working now. I don't think I'm doing anything different, but I could be wrong about that. Anyway, thanks for talking to him.


     

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