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Need Hlp with MF barb

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by ichor, Sep 2, 2004. | Replies: 18 | Views: 661

  1. ichor

    ichor IncGamers Member

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    Need Hlp with MF barb

    My barb dies a ton and can hardly ever kill hell meph.. I followed the standard advice (or .. i think I did) so I'm not quite sure why hell meph owns him so much... I get killed in like 3 hits from meph. I have about 20% combined life leech I think.. but doesn't seem to help. I'm using the Unique Cryptic Sword (ladder item?) as main and dual babas for kill.
    Keep in mind i'm kinda a newby so I don't have much good gear :p

    Here are his stats and such.. stuff in parenthsis is either with gear or Warcry bonus.. I'd really appreciate any advice

    Lvl 72

    Str: 110
    Dex: 107 (129) Defense: 733 (1410)
    Vit: 170 Life: 857 (1671)
    Erg: 14 Mana: 160 (312)
    Unused: 39

    Zerk AR: 3065 Dmg: 335-1989 (335-2039)
    WW AR: 2212 Dmg: 301-1463 (301-1495)

    15 WW
    8 Zerk
    6 Nat Resist
    20 Battle Orders
    20 Sword Mastry
    1 in prereqs and Speed/Battle Command

    Hell Resists:
    F -18
    C 4
    L 4
    P -18

    Thanks,
    ichor
  2. mstrnicegui

    mstrnicegui IncGamers Member

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    no wonder you get your butt kicked, you have poor resistances. You should at least have that up to 50% resist all against meph seeing as his attacks are mostly elemental. You don't list your gear, so I don't know what you have to be improved upon. Leech doesn't help against meph or other act bosses usually, because it's been badly nerfed. Your life is a bit low too, try to get charms and put your points into vit to boost your life to over 2k at least.
  3. johny

    johny IncGamers Member

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    Btw, why did you put 6 pts into Natural Resistance? 1 pt is enuf. And you can save pts to put into Shout to boost ur def.
  4. mstrnicegui

    mstrnicegui IncGamers Member

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    6 pts into natural res is a little much, but considering this is virtually untwinked it's acceptable to put as much as 5 into it. 5 is pushing it though.

    Since he is building a zerk barb, def = squat most of the time, but shout does make a great synergy to zerk for dmg.
  5. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

    As Gui stated,your resists are your immediate problem.Particularly cold against mephisto.I believe its largely because of your gear.Perhaps u aren't getting resists from anywhere apart from shield.You are using a shield right?

    The other issue I see is ur build is getting open-ended somewhat,which with the gear you have is suicide.Apart from over-investing in nat resists,you are pumping two combat skills simultaneously.You should have maxed out ww,placed one into zerk & pump up shout for defense as well as zerk damage.You hit two stones with one bird that way.

    If I were u I would dismantle him.hard choice.

    Rik.

    edit:welcome
  6. Braed

    Braed IncGamers Member

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    Wow, kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm not sure that I would give up though. I think your build is definately salvagable.

    First place to start, is your gear, which you didn't list. Besides Battle Command, I'm assuming you have some additional plus to skills? If so, I would probably make a decision to use either Concentrate (20 BO Synergy and a couple of +skills makes one point just fine) or Beserk against the boss. Looking at your dex, I'm going to guess that you aren't anywhere near max blocking, so I might lean towards Concentrate.

    WW is a great general ability, but I'm not sure that I would use it on a boss. Between Shout, IS, and the defense bonus from Concentrate, you may be better off using that, as stated above. Beserk might be the way to go if you had max blocking, but as it stands, I'm guessing that you block 45-50% of the time, and you will always be getting hit because of no Defense. Heck, it is possible that you aren't carrying a Shield. If that is the case I might still go with Concentrate.

    Mephisto in Hell is 50% resistant to Magical Attacks, but only 20% resistant to Physical. This will give Concentrate (with 1 point) an edge over Beserk (with 8 points), and like I said, both are probably better than WW.

    You have 39 unused Stat points. Pushing 20-30 of those into Vitality will help some, but obviously it is your resists that may be causing you problems. Unfortunately, there isn't much help I can offer you there.

    But take heart! My current Assassin is the same level as you and she can't even make it to Mephisto, or Act III for that matter! I choose to build her without twinking, so like you, the gear she has is the gear she has found. I would say, given your situation, you are way ahead of the game even with the difficulities experienced in taking on Mephisto!

    EDIT: You may have to do what I am having to do which is go back and do some MF runs, even with bad MF or slow MF, and get some better gear.
  7. mstrnicegui

    mstrnicegui IncGamers Member

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    Daaaamn, Braed. He's already sunk 23 points into two combat skills and you want him to spend more points into conc? The way to go is to max shout, then he'll have a decent zerk and decent def when using ww. His skills are already screwed up enough, it's not suicide yet though. If he were to sink more points into a third skill, then it would be suicide.

    btw, max blocking is MUCH more effective with conc, since it is an uninterruptible attack. Often, with zerk, you can get blocklocked when you get swarmed, which is all bad.

    Your bias towards conc sadly underrates ww and zerk. Both are fine skills which are plenty capable of handling bosses just as well as conc. zerk can actually be a better skill than conc against bosses, since often the bosses will attack with elemental attacks where a shield and defense mean nothing anyways and zerk gets a much bigger ed% bonus than conc. That makes the magical resistance a moot point.
  8. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    :cheesy:

    I was surprised too, that conc was put forward.he has 15 into ww already & 8 into zerk-he is going nowhere-except if someone donates botd,duress etc...

    If he manages to find half decent gear like kingslayer highland or something,it can be carried forward by some toiling-otherwise it has to be dismantled.

    Rik
  9. Braed

    Braed IncGamers Member

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    Blarg. I don't know if its just bad timing or what, but reading comprehension these last couple of days is running on E right now.

    I never said for him to put anything into Concentrate. He has already spent one point, he has an additional point because of BC and I asked him if he had any more +skills. Plus he has BO maxed, as a Synergy.

    He wants to beat Hell Mephisto. I was working with what he had, which was 15 WW, 8 Beserk, and 1 Concentrate.

    Rather than go too in-depth here, I'm going to give you the stats after adding one point to each of those skills for BC.

    16 Effective WW
    Damage: +70 percent
    Attack: +75 percent

    9 Effective Beserk
    Attack: +220 percent
    Magic Damage: +280 percent

    2 Effective Concentrate
    Defense Bonus: +110 percent
    Attack: +70 percent
    Damage: +280 percent
    Uninterruptable Attack

    21 Effective in Sword Mastery
    Damage: +128 percent
    Attack: +188 percent
    21 Percent Chance of Critical Strike

    Mephisto - Hell Level
    Magic Resist: 50
    Damage Resist: 20

    So yeah, with what I know he has, I'll take Concentrate, even with the smaller AR over Beserk, which has half of its damage mitigated by Mephisto's resists. And yes, I'd take both of them over WW on a single mob.

    Sure, Concentrate and Zerk are a wash against elemental attacks. But against the Physical attacks he will have zero defense with Zerk, which is doing less damage (which in turn means he is taking more hits over the life of his fight with Mephisto) and a Defensive bonus of 110 for Shout, 40 for IS, and 150 for Concentrate, or 300% if he uses Concentrate.

    Personally, no I wouldn't have built my character to be where he is today with 15 in WW and 8 in Beserk at level 72. But that is what he has, and that is what I responded to. He has another 8-10 levels before exp slows to a crawl, which is plenty of time to supe up WW or Beserk, at which point, yes, Concentrate is not a very good option. Therefore I think his character is going to be fine.

    But I stand by my call that RIGHT NOW with what he has and what he is trying to accomplish, Concentrate is his best bet with Beserk a close second and WW a distant third.
  10. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    Wel..actually it was pay day & I was in a hurry.(pro slacker btw)
    But its true,I just read gui's post, So,I'll just move out of the spotlight & let him explain his booo booo!

    Rik
  11. Braed

    Braed IncGamers Member

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    Dude you don't know what slacker is! I'm so bored I pulled all of those stats off the web!! Imma dork. So don't give it a second thought.

    Naw, you both made good points, under the assumption that I was trying to convince him to add more points into Concentrate. And mstrnicegui makes a great point about MAX block, which I agree with 100%.

    Beserk with Blocking
    +resists
    -blocking animation (because you are hit 95% of the time by physical attacks)
    -lower damage with using a one-hander

    Beserk without Blocking
    -resists, although areas saved on not needing FBR can compensate, not to mention NR
    +never have to worry about blocking animation, although you will need to get FHR as quick as possible
    +dex to carry weapon only, leaves more ponts for Vit or Str
    +greater damage with a 2H
    +more MF (dual Ali's is one option)

    So yeah, although I don't think you are gimped if you use a S/S with Beserk, I do agree with him 100% that going without may out-weigh the benefits of having it. And I believe this is especially true, given the low damage and lack of synergies of WW (2h weapon or Dual Weapons is an option).
  12. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    On your other arguments:

    Agreed, concentrate is currently his best bet against meph,but just meph.He has an ok sword in frostwind,good enuff for ww,though range 2,ww will pay,if he corrects his most severe problem.

    He is low on life & defense,but I just noticed,ar is his most severe problem:2k in act 3 hell- :cheesy: He is proly not using angelics or other base ar items.He must correct that.

    If he manages to correct that & with his effective 6.6% LL in hell(which is his only achievement of sorts) he can squeeze through with ww.

    Rik
  13. ichor

    ichor IncGamers Member

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    Yes I am using a shield heh
    Thanks all for your input
    So the general concensus is.. put stat points into Vit.. raise resist (maybe get a 4 soc shield and pdiamond it ).. and try to use Concentrate? I'm a lil unclear on where to put any skills as I lvl up to fix this.. but it sounds like it kind of depends on who you're asking..

    Of course I'd rather not scrap him, but if I were to start over.. what would you say would be the ideal skill distribution? Put points into Conc instead of Zerk, less into nat resist, and max ww? Or ignore WW alltogether..

    P.S. good to know this stuff about Meph damage/magic resists and such.. like I said I'm kind of a newb so that's all new info for me.
  14. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    No,it doesnt depend on who u ask.I agree,there was some confusion here,I was in a hurry to collect my pay-cheque,Gui is neglecting sleep,he is here 24/7,what else do u expect from him.

    All in all..we are all saying the same thing-pump shout,get more ar,from angelics maybe & u should do ok with ww & zerk,just use the 1 point conc untill u get him patched up.

    Rik.
  15. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    Wait a sec..

    No more points into zerk,nat resists.

    just pump shout & ww together,for a balance of offense & defense.Your immidiate problems are resists & ar.Find better gear.
  16. stevethatsmyname

    stevethatsmyname IncGamers Member

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    gear to look for:

    smoke armor (nef + lum runes) OK defense, 50% all resist. Just make sure to put it in a 450+ defense elite armor and you will end up with 700+ defense plate with good resists.

    Shield: i think that 4 diamond shield is good if you are only after resists, but a better choice for a balance of res/block is moser's blessed circle (with 2 diamonds). If you have the runes (lem+ko) you can also upgrade it to LUNA for better blocking.
    Another choice 'Poor man's mosers' Would be to go shop DROGNAN IN NORMAL for a 'bone shield of deflecting'. It has 65% chance to block. THen go to larzuk if you have an extra socket quest, and hope for 2 sockets. If he gives you 2 sockets (there is a 50% chance of 2, and 50% chance of 1) then put 2 diamonds in it. That gives you 38% to all resist and 65% chance to block.

    Helm: a few choices here. Of course the optimum choice is arreat's face but not everyone has one of these. A cheap alternative that i like is Immortal King's helm. Socket Ort+THul in it for 30% lit and 30% cold resist (mephisto's main attacks). Or socket 2x perfect topaz for more MF if your resists are covered... first think about resist THEN think about MF.

    Ammy/ring/ring. Optimum choices here would be Raven+Raven+Highlords, or raven+dwarf+highlords. But this can be a little expensive. Since you are a little low on attack rating, a good choice would be angelic ring/ammy, and raven frost (for cannot be frozen, cold absorb, dex, mana, attack rating, a great all-around ring) or substitute an all resist ring for raven if you dont have one.

    Boots: Definitely look for resists here. 35+ on a single resist, or even better, 2 resists and run/walk. Good unique/sets to consider are: Immortal king, Waterwalks, aldur's boots, war travelers, tearhaunch greaves, gore rider.

    Glove: Imortal king is a good choice, otherwise use rares with resists and/or 20ias (doesnt help with whirlwind but does help with conc/zerk)

    Belt: Immortal king is an awesome choice here, it has 25 str, and fire/lit resists. I think the IK boot+belt+glove combo has some extra MF too but i may be wrong.

    Charms: Resists, resists, and more resists!!!

    1 more very important thing to consider for res all. MAKE SURE ALL YOUR ANYA QUESTS ARE COMPLETE! especially the normal + NM quests since these are the easiest! Also go back and make sure you did the golden bird, lam esem tombe, and all your skill quests...
  17. Braed

    Braed IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, please don't take that as meaning to pump Concentrate :). In fact, the only time I would use it is against Mephisto because it sorta fits for that one scenario. You will be much better off with WW and Berk, or whatever you have been doing. My limitied opinion to use Concentrate was only in reference to fighting Mephisto.

    And yes, AR and Resists!! What merc are you using? I usually hate going with a Blessed Aim merc when you have Holy Freeze and Might available, but lets face it, between your BO and the fact that you will draw a lot of fire, that merc could stay alive and boost your AR at the same time. Again, probably not the best option out there longterm, but certainly good for your currect situation.
  18. Radu

    Radu IncGamers Member

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    Plain and simple, the MF setup for my 92 barbarian (I only use barbs for mf):

    Equipment

    Shako (perfect topaz) or the IK help with 2 perfect topazes (Shako is better for its mods);
    Skullder's Ire (perfect topaz);
    Stormshield (Shael - perfect diamond is also good);
    The IK belt;
    Laying of Hands;
    War Traveller (48% mf); if not owning WT, the IK boots then;
    Prismatic Amulet of Luck (35% mf, ~15 all res.); other good are amulets of Luck (over 25% mf) with other useful mods such as + skills, + AR, + life; if nothing like above, then Highlord's Wrath is also good;
    Raven Frost and a dual leech ring (6/7); for more % mf, simply use Nagels;
    Death Cleaver (272% ed, 39% ed jewel);
    Lots of 6-7% mf small charms but I also use vita and fine charms.

    Skills

    20 Berserk
    20 Whirlwind
    20 Axe Mastery
    20 Battle Orders
    1 Natural Resistances
    1 Increased Speed
    1 All other prerequisites
    All the other points in Shout

    With the above setup I have 340-360% MF, wich is more than enough in single as well in multi. The key here, as well as in other things, is the balance. Those who sacrifice the safety of their character for huge MF rating are fools, no matter their chars are softcore. With this MF rating I was able to find SoJ, BK, +2 Arkaine, Tal's items, Cranium Basher, Shako, SS, Nightwing's Veil (perfect), the IK armor and many more good (unique, rare and magic - the prismatic amulet of luck) items (from Mephisto, Pit, NM & Hell Andariel, act V). My resists with Highlord's as amulet are ~ 68/30/63/-10; with the prismatic amulet of luck about the same; the ideea is to never have under 55 resists and to be able to leech at least life. Mephisto has magic damage resistance, so WW helps a lot more; the other monsters have physical damage resists, so Berserk is way better; together with WW, the barbarian simply owns any group of monsters, even in multiplayer games (as long as his resistances are over 55 - esp. Fire and Lightning - and leeches life or life and mana). Laying of Hands are simply godly with their 250% ed to demons, fire resist and ias - way better mods than 20-30% more MF from other gloves. Same for the rings. If I really want to have above 450% MF, I can reach that by replacing the fine/vita charms and the items needed in the equipment with MF ones - wielding an Ali Baba instead of shield I can easily gain 600%; with 2 Ali Baba (Ist) the Barb can reach the highest MF percent from the game, but at what cost? If someone really doesn't feel confortable without 600+% MF, the sorceress can provide that with pretty good safety and ease to kill, but the barbarian remains the MF master wich can do MF at any area of the game in single or multiplayer games.

    I also use a mercenary, I couldn't imagine the game without it. It's a Might Mercenary, equipped with:

    Reapper's Toll (Amn - Shael is good too);
    Stone ethereal Sacred Armor (2290 def.);
    Andariel's Visage (Ral).

    He does well with MF equipment too (Tal's armor - perfect topaz - and Shako - perfect topaz) but I preffer the first setup.

    I hope this will clear things enough. Have fun.
  19. mstrnicegui

    mstrnicegui IncGamers Member

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    I am neglecting sleep. I keep convincing myself I'll finish off my homework before I go to sleep and I end up just staying up late and posting here. Looks like the matter has resolved itself rather neatly after a bit of confusion.

    rIK and Braed's advice are spot on. Radu's eq selection is a good goal if you decide to focus more on ww as your main skill.

    NOTE TO SELF: read posts more thoroughly before posting, the taste of my foot is starting to get too familiar.

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