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Need advice for my hardcore scythe-wielding necro

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Kitriara, Jun 19, 2012. | Replies: 22 | Views: 1327

  1. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    Hey all. I've been wanting to create a hardcore meleemancer for some time now, and today I finally decided to do it. I had a few questions I was hoping those with experience could assist me with!...

    My main gameplan is as follows:
    - A buff bone shield for survival
    - Bone wall/prison and various curses for crowd control
    - Decrep and Holy Freeze merc to slow things to a crawl
    - Clay golem for distraction
    - 2 handed scythe... if I'm going to have a meleemancer, he MUST use a scythe

    I'm not a rich man - I generally don't MF - but I have some rough gear planned out. I'm not sure whether or not I'll require Angelics for AR, but barring that I have some other jewelry planned. My main problem though is in my armor and weapon choice. I figure the rest of my gear will be melee-oriented stuff giving resistances, FHR and IAS.

    ARMOR
    I'm debating between Duress for the CB and OW, a classic like Lionheart for the big resists and stats, certain uniques, or Bone for the +2 skills and resists. I'm also not sure if Bone's level 10 ctc bone armor would be synergized by my other skills or not - will that come out synergized?

    WEAPON
    I was originally planning to go with Grimm's Burning Dead. It has a little fire damage, +3 skills, big AR and -50% target defense (could socket an Eth for even more). I'm thinking of using a Demon Limb on switch for the Enchant AR bonus.

    There are some runewords I can afford that are really tempting though. Crescent Moon's ITD and static field seem like they could be insanely helpful as I reach Hell.

    I considered Passion with the thought of using Zeal, but I have no idea how viable that is, or if I'll end up dead. Insight has huge damage and AR bonuses, plus Critical Strike which I thought may help boost my damage.

    Obedience seems amazing with the giant damage, FHR, 40% crushing blow, resistances, and the auto-cast of Enchant. Actually, now that I'm saying those mods out loud, it almost seems ridiculous not to make this haha.


    Any thoughts, suggestions, etc would be appreciated! Thanks everyone.
     
  2. Mrjones

    Mrjones IncGamers Member

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    I would say Obedience and
    Treachery
    5% Chance To Cast Level 15 Fade When Struck
    25% Chance To Cast level 15 Venom On Striking
    +2 To Assassin Skills
    +45% Increased Attack Speed
    +20% Faster Hit Recovery
    Cold Resist +30%
    50% Extra Gold From Monsters
     
  3. DaveW

    DaveW IncGamers Member

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    Sup Kitriara, nice idea to make a Meleemancer. If youre going 2 handed have you considered Ribcracker? FHR, 50% IAS, 50% CB and enhanced defense. All goodness. Synergise Bone Shield and max Dim Vision and CE. Dont use walls for anything other than as synergy for Bone Shield. You dont wanna trap yourself in a wall with Cursed, Fanatic Frenzytaurs. I recently guardianed a Meleemancer but he used Homonoculus and Grief. Just uber pwnage at Hell Players 1 setting.

    Treachery may look nice but your resists suck until you get hit. And personally I dont like getting hit at all in HC. Sure you can stand in a fire but I want resists as soon as I push start. So Smoke or Prudence armour. Prudence has damage reduction as well. For head use Rockstopper: DR and resists. Demon Limb for Enchant and you all good. DV, smah them hit amp and CE. Rinse and repeat. Get points in all curses except Lower Resist as there is no need for it. Good luck.
     
  4. WoRG

    WoRG IncGamers Member

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    Ribcracker is really, really sweet...but I completely understand the desire to wield a SCYTHE! Max style points FTW!!! Obedience would be awesome, but there is one HUGE problem with it...NO IAS!! Treachery does provide a lot of IAS, but DaveW's gripes about it are well justified...you'll definitely wanna pack on some IAS somewhere, even a fast base like a scythe is pretty slow for a necro (18 FPA w/no IAS)...maybe a 4sox armor filled with resistance/fervor jewels. Andy's helm gives some IAS, maybe with a FR/fervor jewel, or paired with LoH gloves.

    WoRG
     
  5. Mrjones

    Mrjones IncGamers Member

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    Obedience,treachery,andys,loh,highlords,nosfer all the ias you could need.
     
  6. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for all of the advice, everyone. Very good points and suggestions; some I had not considered. Dave, a Ribcracker would be godlike, but I'm pretty dead set on using a scythe. If I'm going to do this, like WoRG said, I have to do it with style!

    The fade proc from Treachery doesn't override Bone Shield, does it? I've never actually tried having both active. I imagine not, but if it did, it would defeat the purpose of my pumping the bone stuff.

    Is Dim Vision really that amazing? I figured something like Attract or some such would be much better, but everyone seems to recommend Dim Vision.

    I guess as of now I'm still undecided on my end-game weapon until I see how all my other gear works out, and how much IAS I can get. I'll probably be using Grimm's Burning Dead through at least nightmare, I imagine. Maybe if I up it and Shael it I can get through some of hell.
     
  7. Pyrotechnician

    Pyrotechnician IncGamers Site Pal

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    I actually think bone armor is highly underrated for a melemancer. Since you are going 2-handed you are going to get hit, and you are going to get hit a lot. The ctc pretty much keeps it constantly refreshed and yes it does synergize with bone wall/bone prison so you get an extra boost there. That plus res and skills its really not that bad.
     
  8. EasyG

    EasyG IncGamers Member

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    the ctc bone armor does et synergysed, so with ful synergy, it can absorb 710 damage. Sicne it procs with 15% chance, the ctc bone armor is average about similar to 106+7=113 PDR <<< huge amount.
    The advantage of absorbing that physical damage with your armor is that you dont get into hitrecovery. This is rly awesome for a low def/no block melee necromancer. The disadvantae is that it is a chance skill, so even though it casts with 15% chance, sometimes it might not cast at all, this is mainly a problem for hardcore. Offcourse you can cast it yourself when you see it got removed, you only need 1 point in bonearmor and 20 in it's synergies. Other disadvantage is that it is pretty expensive runeword, unless you make many hellforges and have plenty mid tier runes.

    So even though you will have low defense, it doesnt matter that you get hit a lot, since you absorb the damage without going into recovery, so you only just have to worry about elemental damage, which the same armor happens to have a huge amount off.

    edit: oops pyro was to fast for me :)

    edit: im not 100% sure normal PDR (from Sol rune for example) will work before bone armor, you will need to check some necro bone guides for that.

    edit: I found some posts saying that bone armor gets absorbed before PDR, so PDR doesnt help to keep your bone armor up longer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2012
  9. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    You can use dim vision on a group of enemies, and then attract on a specific target, or in the reverse order, because attract overrides other curses (single target) but nothing overrides attract.

    I would just cast BA in between fights, and also by doing so if you choose to have your +skills or extra points in BA, it will give you a slightly better buff pre-battle, making the chance to "mostly regenerate" your bone armor (lower level ctc) is kinda handy dandy.
     
  10. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Echoing what others have said before: 'Obediance' and 'Treachery' are what I consider core items on a Meleemancer. If not 'Obediance', then a rare scythe with 200%+ ED and Fool's will also work nicely. Your damage is reliant on your AR, in the sense that if you cannot break 4-5k AR, you probably are going to have a bad time. 'Obediance' is great because it has both Enchant and -25% TD. Your end game inventory should have nothing but Steel Grand Charms and Steel/Fine Small Charms, and resistance where it is needed.

    The Fade proc will not override BA. Only the cold armors (Sorc) override BA.

    DV is an amazing curse with 10+ points it in. Considering you're playing hardcore, even more so. It's literally the best disable in the game - you can use it offensively and defensively. Just make sure you understand that you're at 1kish life Necromancer going MELEE. A screen full of threats can be nullified with a single DV cast. See packs of Ranged Skeletons, Gloams, and Dolls? Cast DV (at high levels, the radius is so high that it'll basically cover the entire screen). All of them are now standing still and not coming after you. Cast Decrepify on the pack you want to target first (Decrep has a set radius, so it'll only override DV in the area you cast it), while the other two packs remain stationary. Not only does it let you pick and choose which packs to kill first, DV can let you run past hard areas (Dolls, for instance, who are very fast), and it also helps keep you out of FHR (which is a big problem for Necros). Attract and Confuse are GARBAGE compared to DV. Even with multiple casts of Attract and Confuse, you will not be as protected as compared to one cast of DV.

    My personal focus on my Meleemancer was: AR, Crushing Blow, Deadly Strike, and IAS where I could manage. Don't forget that stats (STR, DEX) may be useful to pump. G-Face, Gores, Highlord's, all are very gg.
     
  11. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    Thanks so much for the Dim Vision advice, bbq. Do you know if my merc's Holy Freeze aura "pinging" the monsters override their blindness from Dim Vision, or will they just kinda take it? It also definitely seems like Obedience is going to be my endgame weapon... it really doesn't seem like much else can touch it. It honestly has everything a Meleemancer could want except IAS, and I can get that elsewhere.

    I believe the IAS table is:
    IAS - FRAMES
    0 18
    3 17
    9 16
    18 15
    30 14
    46 13
    70 12
    109 11

    Treachery basically gets me to 13 frames by itself! A 12-13 frame attack is fine by me, which means that pretty much all my other gear can be dedicated to proper resists and deadly strike/crushing blow. I can't wait to get this guy leveled now that I'm armed with all the good advice. You guys rock.
     
  12. Mrjones

    Mrjones IncGamers Member

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    My best advice to you would be find an andys helm and socket it with a 20+fr/15% ias jewel that would help out alot with the str lifesteal ias and skill points.
     
  13. DaveW

    DaveW IncGamers Member

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    I wudnt run with HF merc. DV will stop monsters in their tracks. Go for the trusty Might merc for damage boost which you will find helpful for leeching purposes as well.
     
  14. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Slow-mo-mancer. Speed is relative...

    Holy Freeze, Clay Golem, The Reaper's Toll x2, Decrepify.
    Don't wear any other slow source, it will cause desynch and won't stack with CG's slow.

    Optionals:
    PDR items which work at double effectiveness when enemies are decrep'd. Or just go all-out speed.
    CE: Hello AoE.
    DV: Breaks the game and puts you to sleep. I'm so tired of using this skill. So, so tired. But it's so powerful, how could you not? ...

    Pros: Slow monsters. Really slow monsters.
    Cons: There's no such thing as a free lunch.
    Priceless: You, if you guardian this character.
     
  15. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    Hmm, I'll consider it. I'm definitely more interested in safety over killing speed, considering this is hardcore, and I don't have particularly amazing gear. Might would be nice to up my damage, but holy freeze just seems so darn safe!...



     
  16. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    An update and a question...

    Suicidey the Scythe Necro is currently level 35, sitting in Harrogath. He is a blast to play - the going is slow, but wow is this guy fun. He has some decent gear on right now... he'll probably get an overhaul around 45, then another overhaul around 65-70, at which point he'll be wearing the majority of his endgame gear. I imagine I'll play him through Hell Baal then retire him. I don't see much of a future for him once he's "beat the game."

    Dim Vision is insanely broken. Wow. I never realized just how good that spell is at high levels. Thank you all for your advice.

    I'd like to say I'll be getting a Might merc, but I think that when the times comes, it'll be Holy Freeze. Suicidey is just so fragile, even with all of his good gear, that I think I'll need to choose safety over killing speed.

    and now, the question

    just a quick double check - I have a Poisonmancer that I use for MFing. Just to confirm, if I do Pit Runs in A1 hell, the bosspacks have a chance to drop ANY item in the whole game, right? If so, I'm going to up my runs in hopes to find a little better gear for ol' Suicidey.

    Thanks all!
     
  17. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    Correct! Champions can't drop EVERYTHING, but most people just kill them anyway for exp and the chance of nearly everything. I know they can't drop tyrael's, and a few others I can't remember. Unique monsters in alvl 85 areas can, though.

    Edit: Oh, and I LOVE the name :p Hilarious. Make a video sometime when you're in nm or hell?
     
  18. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    Heh, thanks regarding the name. It felt right, since this is the first character I've made in quite some time who I feel has a serious chance of seeing the Deeds screen.

    Thanks for clarifying about the level 85 area drops. Do the Pits and Ancient Tunnels HAVE a unique monster guaranteed in each that could theoretically drop anything?



     
  19. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    What I meant by unique monster was all boss packs (excluding champion/berserker etc)
    so all of the monsters with the random mods.
    Neither of those areas has a super unique monster, which is what I think you're asking? but that's okay, because they're not necessary.

    I guess saying anything with a random name is fair game for any item.
     
  20. EasyG

    EasyG IncGamers Member

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    the uniques, champions and minions (but not the normals) in those lvl85 areas are able to drop any unique(including tyraels/stormlash/metalgrid etc) in the game, but are not able to drop any item.
    few things they cannot drop:
    -cow king set (can only drop in secret cow level)
    -grand charms with vita (41-45) suffix (needs higher Ilvl, e.g. nihlatak,diablo,baal)
    -small charms with max elemental prefix and +1 minimum damage prefix(needs higher Ilvl, like the GC's)
    -magic and rare items with maximum lvl of charged skill level (only baal, needs ilvl 99)
    -various quest items and respec items
    -some affixes that can only drop at certain low lvls, like low lvl shimmering grand charm (3-12@)
    -low tier class specific skills at wands, orbs etc, like raise skeleton.
    -obviously items that cannot be dropped, like crafted items
    -Im sure I still missed somce, but well the point is, yes they can drop all uniques (except crystal sword since you need older version for that one)
     

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