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Mini Liberator Guide: V2.0 Installment 1

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by LovelyGods, Jan 19, 2005. | Replies: 12 | Views: 13241

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  1. LovelyGods

    LovelyGods Banned

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    Mini Liberator Guide: V2.0 Installment 1

    This is going to be a updated certain parts of the guide. Im going to list what i did, to save you some reading time. My way might not work for you or be the best way to make a libby, but its a good starting block to create your very own liberator. Let the domination begin. (based on my lvl 91 Liberator)

    Basic Intro: Liberator, the charge hammer hybrid.
    Minimum Opt. LvL = 90
    Difficulity Usage: 8/10




    Skills: What i did.
    "Offensive Liberator"
    20 Charge
    20 Vigor
    20 Concentraion
    20 Blessed Hammer
    16 Blessed Aim
    01 Holyshield

    Skills:
    "Defensive Liberator"
    16 Charge
    20 Vigor
    20 Concentraion
    20 Blessed Hammer
    20 Holyshield
    01 Blessed Aim

    Difference:
    Defensive has more defense due to the maxing of holyshield, needs less points into dex to achive max block. While the offensive has less block, less defense he provides solid damage with the cross synergies that this build has.

    Synergies to Charge are Vigor + Might
    Synergies to Hammer are Vigor + Aim
    Aim adds passive 5% ar per lvl invested into it, based on your base dexterity.

    Hence why i choose what i did. Vigor is a synergy of both so tis a good idea to max this. This skill arrangement is not set in stone, you can move stuff around, this is just a basic outline of skills of the liberator.

    STATS:
    Strength, This depends on what armor you would like to use. I choose Enigma Light plate for mine, so i have a base str of 30. If you want to use shaft stop or some other armor this has to be higher.

    Dex, Just enough for max block. (Tip: Try to get to lvl 70+ before adding to dex, have your holyshield where you want it and all gear equiped, this way you only add the minimal amount of dex required saving more points for....)

    VITA: Everything goes into here that you can spare.

    CHARMS:::
    4 x Combat Gc, 1x with fhr.
    5 x Sharp Gc of Vita
    1 x Sharp Gc of Balance
    9 x Sharp Sc of Vita
    1 x Anni


    GEAR:
    THings to keep in mind when choosing gear, Life , Skills, Versaility.

    My setup @lvl 91

    Vs. Any Melee, Necros, Wind Druids, Bow zons

    Helm: Shako (ber)
    Ammy: Highlords
    Armor: Engma Light Plate
    Gloves: Bloodfist Sharkskin
    Boots: Water Walk 64 life
    Shield: HoZ Ber (charge side)
    Shield: HoZ Um (cast side)
    Weapon: Ebotd Zerk (charge side)
    Weapon: HoTo (cast side)
    Ring1: Bul Kathos
    Ring2: R.Frost with almost perfect mods
    Belt: Verdungo

    Vs. Lightning Casters, Foher, Sorceress, Trappers

    Helm: Kiras 70% resist (Lo)
    Armor: Same
    Ammy : Same
    Ring1: Whisp
    Ring2: Same
    Belt: T.Gods
    Shield: HoZ UM(ON CHARGE)
    Shield: HoZ Ber (on cast)
    Weapons: Same
    Boots: D2C Imp Shank

    Alternative, if sombody is really hurting you further add a 200+ LIght shield to the mix. IE: 4 P.Topaz shield with already having resist = 205 Maximum.

    ToTals: 90% lightning resist / 35-40% Light Absorb / Stacked

    Um on Charge becuase, now you can have the same effect as wearing hoto or wizardspike from Kiras so just charge away, depends on who u duel but usually a trapper or who ever will not have alot of block, therefore this setup works. Trappers will Mb You, dont worrry, it will take about 15 minutes for them to significantly hurt you with light sentry. Just stay calm and try to charge out of the Mb Field, then go in for the charge kill.

    Light Sorc, try to stll play like you have no resist at all, charge using vigor around and try to get the sorc to follow, then strike your charge at them, they will die soon. if not at first, then re-load.

    Anti V/t , Mage paladin Setup
    NOTE:: the way i did this i dont have alot of Dr, i dont plan on getting smited and hammers dont effect dr. So...make it how u will, but just warning you ahead of time

    Helm: Kiras (Lo)
    Armor: Enigma Light Plate
    Gloves: Bloodfist
    Ring1: Bk or Whisp (depends on if the v/t or mage has a high foh or conviction)
    Ring2: Bk or R.frost
    Boots: D2C imp shank
    Belt: T.Gods
    Shields : Switch again ::Um on Charge Side, Ber on Cast
    Weapons: Same
    Ammy, Still highlords

    rest is about the same as the melee setup.

    Why i chose this. Vs any v/t or a mage (foh / hammer) paladins, the first thing they do is atempt to foh you, since foh will just tickle (because they ar not PURE foh they are hybrids therefore if you take away one attack you are ahead of the game) The idea is to NEGATE foh at all costs, not worrying about Dr, or Life at this time. FOh is a ranged attack, means you can be a screen away and it will still hit you. If you take away One major attack, all they have left is Smite (v/t) or Hammer(mage/Judicator). Smite needs to be in close, But remember, you have Hammers...THis is the trump card, smite will almost never reach you if you play this smart and dont wander off too much.
    Vs mages, this is a little harder, once they see that foh wont hurt they will most likey ether A) teleport hammer you, or B) Charge / Hammer Dyscnc If they teleport hammer, thats simple. its very easy to predict where they will land, just know that and then move approproatly out of the way, casting hammers as you move. They will be sitting ducks teleporting on top of you, if you know that you never teleport.



    BASIC DUELING STRAGETY:

    Charge: With my melee setup or any setup for that matter. Charge probably will not hit any paladin that is "walking" The average pubby dueler wont walk, so its pretty simple, If you see them "running" twards you, BELLS and WHISTLES should be going off in your head, CHARGE CHARGE!!!! This will most likely hit every time. If the paladin blocks it, then CHARGE CHARGE away, get the hell out of there. re-group and repeat....also placing hammers too... incase they charge / follow you..

    Do not be afraid to cast as many noob hammers as you want. i say noob hammers cuz the majority of pubby have never seen a libearator and thus wont expect 14k @34 ds charge coming at them full boar. Killing them in one hit or two. Your hammers wil do approx 8-9k or higher, this is the optimal lvl for these, they will kill in 1-2 hits still, and its not over kill.

    Im very sorry if this is confusing to you. But its quite hard to put into words some of the tactics i do without sounding weird or not understanding how to kill a certain classs.

    If you are on Us West i'll help you guys out, i'll hold a liberator school, if you want and help you out, i'll find some pubby duel games and work on some things with you guys or even in Temple fightnig some of the best v/t mages or zealots out there.

    This is the VERY VERY basic way to make a liberator, and no i didn't include all the litting things , like why dont i have Fcr , and why dont i have any 10 x combats and why dont i use teleport....If you have any specific questions ask em...i'll answer em...
  2. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    Helm: Shako (ber)
    Ammy: Highlords
    Armor: Engma Light Plate
    Gloves: Bloodfist Sharkskin
    Boots: Water Walk 64 life
    Shield: HoZ Ber (charge side)
    Shield: HoZ Um (cast side)
    Weapon: Ebotd Zerk (charge side)
    Weapon: HoTo (cast side)
    Ring1: Bul Kathos
    Ring2: R.Frost with almost perfect mods
    Belt: Verdungo

    Hey Lovely

    Why the Eth BOTD zerker. Doesn't a grief zerker do a whole lot more charge damage????

    Also has anyone tried to use fortitude to get to 75% FCR without weapon swith. I am not sure how much Life I have lost but IMO it is a whole lot easier then getting caught on the switch or is enigma just still prefered for the tele/hammer on the libby.
  3. Stoutwood

    Stoutwood IncGamers Member

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    Have you tried that new EDC on your Liberator yet Brian? It seems to me that the -33% Target Def and the Deadly Strike would prove more useful to your charge switch. And by the way, we play Non-Ladder, and yes Grief would probably be as good or better than eBotD.
  4. LovelyGods

    LovelyGods Banned

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    yes ive tried it.

    EDC = -33 target defense / 66% deadly strike

    Ebotd = -25 target defense / 30 vita / 30 dex / 30 str / 30 energy.

    Problems. EDC does not put out the greater amount of damage. it has no life added and no dex.

    Ebotd adds life adds dex adds str and has alot of damage

    Unless sombody can figure out a setup for EDC then thats great.

    Totals EDC + V.Torc = 9.8 k Damage @ 66% Ds
    Ebotd Zerk + High lords = 13k damage @34%ds with life and dex.

    Which is better? its hard to pick...botd adds life.....perhaps thats best for a liberator. Anyways rees, tonight i want to re-gear my zealot i think..

    liberator is same as last time. beats all paladins but still gets no respect from anyone. I can't tell you how many times ive been called hacker , AA er, cheater, thats cheap, hammer dork noob, etc.....its really quite sad that hammerdins get shafted because of a public hammerdorks like to teleport / bm with hammers. Oh well i can't change that unless we got together a whole group of liberators or good mannered hammer varients and change the face of hammers for ever. Its funny, Exile is bm cuz of the life tap and extra aura, yet the majority of paladins consider hammers to be bm? How is this so? Just because they are magic damage, and cannot be resisted, means they are bm? Why arn't necro's bone spirit and spear considered bm? There is plenty of ways to beat any paladin, too bad nobody has enough common sence to acually "think" for themselves and learn to duel other classes of palain besides their own. Its like a repeating dream, i go into a paladin pk game, hostle a v/t, they say Nt, you use hammer NOOB. Yet you still duel other v/t's. What if the v/t uses lacerator and slow? isn't that not bm? yet you STILL wont duel a Gm hammer varient? That leaves me with nobody to duel against, and makes you look silly. For not attempting to kill me...Then if i duel one zealot, its considered bm cuz i used hammers, all 7 zealots come to bm me for no reason....sure i win against 7 zealots vs me. but still...Hammer's arn't noob, they arn't dumb, they are a skil just like anything else in the game. I just wish more people would get off the bandwagen of noob calling and steriotyping paladins, hammer varients arn't all bad. I like it when people tell me that a liberator is super easy to make and use. yet NOBODY has ONE!! but me, and i think one person on Ch. Thats it. Sure some hammerdins like to fake it and use a botd for charge, but its not the same, they all lack the charge damage / ar for any effect.

    Sorry for the Rant but its getting silly. Oh btw, if anyone else decides to come to temple and tell me "ITS ZEAL ONLY" prepare to start a war, i will not hold back , i will destroy you, and nk you, you think a bm zealot is bad, wait till u get in my way!. Temple was never Zeal only, infact it was createad SOLELY for the purpose of NOT zealing, in 09 it was for NON zealots only. Zeal is new for temple, yet there are 90% zealot 10 %other in temple right now. And of the 90%/ 5% of u zelaots acutally duel other classes.

    So if you wish to make a liberator be prepared to be Nk'ed , bm'ed , name called , exiled, and anything else i forgot, its not for the meek thats fo ' shizzle. For too long us hammer varients got overlooked as "real" paladin classes, time to change. Time for a big change. The reason for this is people are scared, "OMg a hammerdin with a brain?" if people get scared of the unknown they go nuts and want to stop it from happeneing.

    Well like the Great P-Diddy once said " We Can't stop, Wont stop"

    Good day.
  5. Weltkriegpally

    Weltkriegpally IncGamers Member

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    well, that sounds like my experience with my v/t in most games and sometimes my .09 titan ww barb, lol. anyways, the point is that people are noobs, and only once in a while are you going to find someone willing to learn how to duel with all the skills and tactics the possess, rather than standing there and clicking on an opponent and hoping to get lucky. the ones that listen all too often end up being our next best challenges in coming years. I may or may not try a liberator, lovelygods, but it seems that you have a fairly interesting build, even if there are things I would probably change for my own skill base. those are some strong numbers. good job.

    --welt
  6. LovelyGods

    LovelyGods Banned

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    Thanks, and im not trying to convert everyone to a liberator, but there was some who wanted to make it heeh...

    Totals i have now are like..

    Hammer Damage on Cast : 9.8k
    Hammer damage on Charge : 8.5k
    Charge Damage : 13k @34% Ds
    Life : 2600+
    Charge Ar : 12k+

    Hope this guide at least helps sombody out...even though its not a very complete guide.
  7. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    Hope this guide at least helps sombody out...even though its not a very complete guide.[/QUOTE]

    Ya, I sorta like this build yet I have made my first on ladder so I am experimenting with 75% fcr and no weapon switch and my hammer damage at lvl 84 is not great like 4500 yet I am now working on aim synergy which should help soon. I went with a SS to get my PDR to 50% yet would I be better off using a hoz instead in all your opinions. As for the hammer damage on libby I can care less what people think since I am making my build around fortitude and will not be tele/hammer. Sorta keeps me sane when they call me BM and I can say at least I do not tele on you and kill you.

    This build is a real fun build. I like it as much if not better then my godly V/T

    Keep up all the good work on your guide.
  8. Rane-

    Rane- IncGamers Member

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    When I duel in pubs, I don't use anything remotely BM, I NEVER talk trash (first) and I never interrupt 1v1's. I am also the person who usually tries to initiate fair, balanced team duels, and only hostile people who want to duel. Despite these things, all the stuff you listed happens to me all the time anyway. It's just what pubs are like. My PvM Avenger was accused of being 'lame' because it used the uber-tactic of doing elemental damage at 8frames whilst being interruptible. A (bad) Necro with little or no FHR and non-stacked res died to a PvM Avenger. He got his friend to gang up on me, and nk'd/tg'd. It just happens no matter what. I believe Stoutwood said it best in his guide to the ultimate PKer 'Killed by move that wasn't previously thought of to be cheap but now is for the very reason it killed you' :xrollseye:. That's just the way pubs are thesedays, so I just learn to use the squelch button when I don't care anymore.

    Back on topic :xsmile4:, cheers for the update. I also have some questions;
    - Why don't you have FCR? (Hoto brings some to the table, but I hear a LOT of talk about ~50 FCR being NECESSARY for Hammers...)
    - Why don't you have 10 x combats? (I'd never really charge a high-def char, they aren't exactly goind to be fleeing to often, especially if they're melee. I would think that Charge with BA synergy would be more than enough AR? So why not skillers?)
    - Why don't you use teleport? (is it a BM thing? Or you actually have some strategical reason?)
    - What FHR bp do you think Liberators need to hit and why? Is it more/less important than for a Zealot?
    - If you don't use teleport, then perhaps there may be a better armour than Enigma? Yes it's stil a VERY good armour for the Life/DR/RW, but I would think that perhaps you could do better. I was thinking you could use a combination of Stone/CoH (Stone for Melee, CoH for stacking res vs Casters.) If you aren't going to teleport (for whatever reason,) then I think some other armours could definatly be looked at more seriously.

    P.S. Sign me up for Liberator 101 :xmad:.
  9. Tastychiken_europe

    Tastychiken_europe IncGamers Member

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    Great (mini) guide lovely.
    i almost started a libby but wanted to complete my zealot and then start of with the libby.
    (but need to increase my economy first :D ).

    The libby or a fireclaw bear will be my next build (have a great 6 sock pb)
    but its leaning against libby now :)

    Yet again loved it (especially the rant) *LoL*.

    Btw i tried the runemaster onn sp (wanted to be sure of it)
    and it worked amazing! like a mini version of a botd.

    but that's of topic.. :p

    //cheers Tastychiken
  10. LovelyGods

    LovelyGods Banned

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    No i dont play Bm, i always say gg and "go" before duels, and yet still some how when ever i did either hammer or charge or "ran around" a little, i was bm.....anyways..

    1. Fcr , I found that it is possible to increase your cast, but i chose not to, due to the fact that i "place" hammer instead of spam it. If your position on your opponent is good, then there is no need to spam, just one or two hammers does it. But by all means go ahead, get fcr, remember my setup isn't set in stone, its a "building block" to makin your own libbby.

    2. 10 x Combats, after testing both, (combat or Sharp) i found that if you use a mix of both you get the best result. I got enough combats to achieve 9k or so hammer damage and rest sharps. 9k hammer is plenty, 14k is overkill, not needed. This means you will have a higher life then most people (assuming you use sharp sc of vita) without the use of bo or oak sage. For charging these are essential in my book, you get around 12k ar with sharps and more damage and ar then using 10 x combats. Also you get a higher life too from using sc's instead of combats. But your defense....the idea is to not get hit by melee. Hence the hammer part, its defensive, which means if sombody comes at you with melee, you have time to plan your attack. If they are running, charge em. Start off by using vigor and half way thru ur charge change to conc, after you strike change to hammer and hammer once. move away, etc....Its hard to explain right now but if you want to learn more come play with me. :xsmile4:

    3. Teleport< i choose not too use this. Several reasons, 1, its predictable, any hammer paladin that teleport / hammers will die from me. i know where and how they move, i can plan my hammer spammage and hit em before they even teleport on top of me. 2. its not needed, i use charge / vigor for movement, this is the beauty of this build. charge/ vigor alone is a great attack, its uber fast and people wont expect it. it also doubles as a wonderful movement skils to get away and even get closer.

    4.FhR, i only had er....30+12+12 = 54% total, this seemed plenty, if a melee hit me i still had enough recovery to recover and run away or hammer or charge. BUT BUT BUT>>>>>> I did notice that if a druid or sombody teleports on top of you, because i dont have alot of fcr, i didn't have fast enough hammers flying around... I guess its a trade off, Balanced or more twards a hammerdin with good charge..Its up to you.... But i think 50% FhR should be good, if you want to act like a zealot get 86% FhR .

    5. Enigma, i chose this inorder to achieve relativly low str stats, inorder to achieve higher life. sure you can use shaftstop or something, maybe even upgraded vipermagi, fortitude if you are on ladder. If i had to re-do this, i would probably use a upgraded Viper magi armor with Shael or Ber in it. Up to you. Stone might work, but i dont think you really need uber high defense,

    anyways hoped this helped

    o yea..i switched back to zealot for a few days, just to try out my new weapon ! For you see, i only have one set of Melee Charms, so both char use some....hard to give up zealing for good, i like it too. :xrollseye
  11. Olio

    Olio IncGamers Member

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    I made a hammerdin variant, it works well. At 90 my skill layout is:

    Blessed Hammer 20
    Concentration 20
    Blessed Aim 20
    Vigor 20
    Charge 13
    Holy Shield 1
    Meditation 1

    For gear I have:
    Enigma
    Shako (shael)
    Trang Oul Gloves
    Mara's
    Tgods (arachnid mesh)
    Ravenfrost
    10fcr rare ring with other stats
    HoZ/SS/Ptopaz/Psaphire/spirit shields
    wizardspike (with nords on switch)

    Anni
    + random assortment of hp/str/mana/resist charms

    ~900 mana
    ~2103 life
    7700 hammers
    3k charge
    7k attack

    I mostly just hammer people as it's much more reliable than charge. However having charge on switch is very nice vs people that run around or teleport alot. The original goal was to get a scourge CTA on switch to charge with and get 6+ life skillers and fill the rest with hp/sharp and hp/mana charms for 4k life / 1k mana with BO. However I've lost interest in the game as it is usually unplayably laggy with after release of WoW. I also found MF to be tedious and that runes were likely to evaporate shortly after I traded for them.

    Olio
  12. HeavAngel

    HeavAngel Paladin Moderator

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    LovelyGods, I'd like to see your guides up on the new web site. Please LMK
  13. HarbingersOfSkulls

    HarbingersOfSkulls IncGamers Member

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    I'm in the process of making one now...sometimes I run into mana problems though...would it be worth it to put a point into redemption or would that be a waste of a point in doing so?

    HoS
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