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Melee DHs - no more?

Discussion in 'Demon Hunter' started by Karth, Aug 21, 2012. | Replies: 18 | Views: 3886

  1. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    Caltrops
    Skill Rune - Jagged Spikes - Can no longer trigger procs
    Chakram
    Skill Rune - Shuriken Cloud - Weapon damage increased from 30% to 34%Proc coefficient reduced from 0.333 to 0.125

    Grenades
    Skill Rune - Gas Grenades - Proc coefficient reduced from 0.5 to 0.165


    Are melee DHs sunk? Can they even generate enough Discipline to keep Shadow Power up as a replacement for all these skills they used to obtain Life on Hit?
  2. iThinman

    iThinman IncGamers Member

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    So much for build diversity. What the hell is their motivation for this one?
  3. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    I suspect this is related to all the procs on the new legendary items, like they said to wizards when they cut Wicked Wind proc coefficients in half. I'm starting to wonder if the procs on these legendary items are going to be worth all of this.


  4. Virility

    Virility IncGamers Member

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    The change is harsh, would of been happy with the proc cut by half. No longer will caltrops, shuriken cloud keep you alive while frozen and getting beat on. At least the other skill used to proc loh has not been touched.

    There will not be enough to proc rate return to keep Shadow active during a difficult fight. There may not be enough loh return to keep you alive regardless.

    So much for skill creativity, and build diversity.
  5. SixteenTons

    SixteenTons IncGamers Member

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    Well, that was fun while it lasted. Glad I pushed through and finished Inferno with my tank DH this weekend.

    Couldn't they have just adjusted the procs skill by skill so that Caltrops and a Puzzle Ring wouldn't just start popping out Treasure Goblins like Pez?

    Was thinking about trying to get LoH to an even higher number and trying to make Stun Grenades work - guess that project starts tomorrow.
  6. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    That particular one is based on you getting hit, not doing the hitting. XD I wish all the melee DHs good luck; I was going to start regearing my DH for the build but no more; my barb's been wounded by the Overpower change so I'm going to need to work on his gear before I can play around with new builds for my alternate chars. I'll keep an eye on things and see what develops.

    I also noticed that while Gas Grenades got nerfed, unlike every other generator except HA, none of the grenade runes got a buff. Are there more people using other grenade skills that I'm not seeing? What's going to be the point to grenades when other generators deal so much more damage and are for the most part easier to aim, too?


  7. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    well thats a pitty and pretty weak. Tank DH was the only kind of DH i actually had fun with.

    besides that i only played DH for the obvious death zerg + Kite strategy for pre 1.03 (act 3) - which wasnt particular fun ; but it was atleast effective ...

    now all DH are going back to glass canon builds and " hide behind teammates" except that more different hatred spenders will be used ... which doesnt make much of a difference mechanically or from a gear setup standpoint....


    additionally it invalidates even more passive skills from the roster such as ; Numbing trap , nightstalker , cull the weak ,grenadier and costum engineering.

    great job Blizzard. way to improve build diversity.

    i feel like they should. rather split up the procc coefficient into multple sub categories such as.

    LOH
    on crit effects. ( battlerage , AP on crit , Nightstalker )
    Costum proccs. Legendary proccs , CC (stun blind freeze etc )
  8. Kalixian

    Kalixian IncGamers Member

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    They said something about grenades getting an overhaul in a future patch; they tried to do it for 1.04 but couldn't get it right.


  9. EquiLa

    EquiLa IncGamers Member

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    Nice post.

    I really dont have a clue how they're justifying the procc rate reduction with "The new legendarys", perhaps that 30% (!"#!) procc rate on that new item is out of line and not the procc rate or skills? Bah, could have gone a much better route with this one.

    I dont have a clue how to justify the use of most of the passives any more and it really feels like they're trying to streamline the speccs even further.

    Time will tell if the playstyle recovers. hopefully there's some way around the horrible mechanics and I will put in quite a bit of effort to make this work so stay updated :)



  10. Coolhwip

    Coolhwip IncGamers Member

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    Pretty pathetic changes, tank DH was the only fun spec after having literally tried them all. I had like 170k dps on my glass cannon set before I sold it all because it was boring as hell. Notice also how devious and sneaky they were about the class changes. First they only announce the majority of buffs and save all the nerfs for the actual patch notes. A half truth is worse than a lie.
  11. Nachee

    Nachee IncGamers Member

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    The "new procs on the legendaries" excuse is lame. They just wanted wizards and DH to stop going melee.

    Build diversity my ***.
  12. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    I agree (if it does in fact mean no more loh) that they are done for. They didnt just nerf us once, they nerfed us on all three fronts! And the Caltrops nerf is so heavy that you cannot just stand by monsters anymore, therefore you won't ever use jagged spikes anymore. So JS will get filed next to Nether Tentacles along with Shuriken Cloud and Gas Grenades joining the "never to be used again" list.

    But Whirlwind needed to do more damage; we can't have barbs running around basically invulnerable. They need to be whirling around basically invulnerable! The tornado loh was about 1/2 to 1/3 effective as caltrops, but you had the ability to be far away from the monster while this is taking place! People weren't whirling and just running becasue they can buy a cheap 2nd weapon that does not factor into the tornado damage clalc (unlike caltrops, the second bow couldn't be 300 dps...)

    The DH class in general really got a huge nerf comparatively to other classes that can use a 2h weapon effectively. My barb is poorly geared, doing fine in act 3 and never used overpower. The only difficult fights involved arcane, shielding, and invulnerable minions. Oh make it easier will you?
  13. PandadudeSP

    PandadudeSP IncGamers Member

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    Honestly caltrops proccing fear from nats gaze made me hands down the most annoyed ever playing d3. Anyways I didnt run jagged spikes before getting full nats and I was still able to tank in a2 with pretty average gear (like 500 AR, 5k armor, 20k dps). I did use shuriken cloud but no poison grenade and Im certain I healed way more from shadow power than from LoH off abilities. Now with another nerf to elites and the most dangerous monster types I still think itll be possible to tank most elite packs in melee (evading elemental effects). Think Ill run a build like this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WhgVkl!Ved!ccYYbb possibly switching sentry + brooding for smoke screen + tactical advantage.

    Edit: Ill also note that there are still a few abilities left with decent LoH coefficients. Shock collar has 160 per target. Smoke screen - Choking gas has 50 per target for 5 ticks. Sentry - Chain of Torment has 75 per target per tic. The damage of these 3 abilities have been increased dramatically aswell.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  14. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    Confirmed. Zero loh.
  15. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    brooding is a terrible terrible passive even now. i dare say that even with 3% it would be hard pressed to compete with Life reg gear LOH and mitigation that could be offered by numbing traps.
  16. Kalixian

    Kalixian IncGamers Member

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    Just did my first farm run in Act 1 and 2, and I'm pleased to say this build is still very viable.

    My gear is good but nothing spectacular. 31k DPS, 445 AR (580 Phys), 3367 Armor, 33.5k HP, 940 LoH. DPS is high for the build, but my AR, life and LoH are all low.

    I kept shuriken cloud, it still gives a little LoH and DPS, and the extra LoH definitely helps in a crowd. Plus I don't really know what to replace it with (I was thinking sentry but it costs 10 disc, screw that).

    I switched fan of knives for preparation/invigoration, which increases max disc by 10 for 5 seconds. My thinking on this rune is that as long as I use gloom within those five seconds (which is likely if I'm burning my disc to begin with), then it makes the gloom essentially cost just 4 disc. The other prep runes aren't really that attractive.

    I switched nighstalker (which is now useless even with my 43% crit) for vengeance, which is an underrated passive IMO. Really helps with disc regen between packs, and since I have some extra pickup radius (something everyone should have IMO) I can frequently snag globes during fights.

    I kept jagged spikes and numbing traps.

    Act 1 is still trivially easy.

    Act 2 is still very farmable. I used gloom preemptively against ranged packs to close the distance and get caltrops down to proc numbing traps before grenade spamming. I have to use gloom more than before (and use it earlier as my globe starts to drop) but I wasn't having any trouble running out of disc with prep to back me up.

    Just don't spam jagged spikes anymore. Put down one to proc numbing traps and preserve the rest of the disc.
  17. Dethklok

    Dethklok IncGamers Member

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    Well of course Act 1 it's still gonna work, but I am calling your bluff on Act 2... I had difficulty against Act 2 elites (not whites) with very similar gear stats (except more like 16k damage) in 1.03, so saying it works now is... dubious.


  18. Virility

    Virility IncGamers Member

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    This is what has helped me. I am trying to be more "disciplined at using my discipline".

    Maybe this last comment is off topic but, I believe the idea that skill combinations that could make up for gear quality will no longer happen.



  19. speedloader

    speedloader IncGamers Member

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    Nope, considering LoH and stun/freeze procs, I tried buriza+amethyst, and hollow whispers, hollow doesn't proc, buriza doesn't help (so neither will azurewrath), eventually considering sky splitter+LoH+amethyst ... but I don't think it justifies the nerf.


    Here are my assumptions

    - Gloom helps selling nata 1.0.3 at obscene prices on the RMAH

    - They'll do everything to keep dps hunters farming

    - Wyatt Cheng needs a brain

    Meanwhile, Jay's 100Kdps/1M EHP Barb permastuns act 4 elites with azure/sky and procs LoH like crazy.


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