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Level 30 Mauler Guide

Discussion in 'PvP' started by SmittySixTen, Nov 3, 2007. | Replies: 45 | Views: 30309

  1. SmittySixTen

    SmittySixTen IncGamers Member

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    Level 30 Mauler Guide

    I’ve been meaning to write a LLD Mauler guide for quite a while now. Recently a lot of questions have come up (both directly to me and at a couple of forums I visit), so I figure now is just one of those times where I should buckle down and do it. Keep in mind this is my first attempt at a guide, and I didn’t realize how much I really wanted to say until I started to write it. If things seem jumbled or someone has suggestions let me know. I’m new at this.

    I’m going to break the guide down into the following sections:

    1) Background information – Basically where I prattle on about my experience with Maulers
    2) Stat point allocation
    3) Skill point distribution
    4) Breakpoints and other stats to shoot for
    5) Equipment
    6) What you can and cannot expect from this character


    Background Info

    I first started to play low level maulers in 1.09. Everything was completely different back then. First of all, 76legit was the standard for LLD chars. This meant that not every character was considered good manners at level 30. In fact, 29 was the highest a druid could go—thankfully, because Sheals always have been, and always will be the backbone of this build.

    In .09 the main focus of a Mauler was on damage. The mantra was pump up your damage as high as it can go (without messing with those 6 Shaels in your weapon), and worry about everything else later. This was viable because leech was huge. Get yourself to 20 leech, and you were nearly unbeatable. You would do so much damage that you’d nearly heal yourself in one whack of the opponent, and a measly 2% mana leech would put you back at max mana.

    Oh how times have changed…

    When I first came back after my break (I pretty much stopped playing a week after 1.10 came out, and did not start again for about 2 ½ years) I attempted to make a similar build, but it simply did not work. Now, I fully admit I did not have the optimum gear, but the bear didn’t do nearly as well as I’d expected, even knowing he had second-rate gear. This meant I had to rethink my approach.

    I came to one conclusion for success in 1.11 with a Mauler. You need to focus on everything the werebear has going for it naturally—not just damage, and then you need to make that sucker as fast as possible in every aspect.

    Werebears CANNOT focus purely on damage and be successful in 1.11. Instead, you need to first focus on speed, second on life and defense (which of course will be interchangeable depending upon the duel), and finally on damage. There is no question to this. This is what you will base your gear around, in this order, period. The ONLY exception I make is the weapon, but I’ll get to that much later.


    Stat Allocation

    I’ll stat with stats first. Let me preface this with a word of warning: if you use the setup that I use, you will have hardly any stat points left over for vit, if any at all. Do not be alarmed. As for your actual stats, you probably can guess the basic run down.

    -Starting Stats-
    Strength: 15
    Dex: 20
    Vit: 25
    Energy: 20

    -Stat points you will need when done-
    Strength: This will generally vary from 100-121. Be prepared to need 121 str.
    Dex: 67-90 depending on your shield choice. Again, be prepared to go with the highest value. You’re going for max block.
    Vit: All that’s left.
    Energy: None.

    Let me throw a figure out there to reiterate how tight you’ll be on stats. If you only go through norm difficulty you will have 185 stat points to work with, if you include your base strength and dex. If you have the highest strength and dexterity requirement from your item choice you need 211 stat points. Again, you have very little room for adjustment. My suggestion is to Hell Rush your character if you need higher strength and dexterity, but that is really your choice.


    Skill Point Distribution

    If you read no other part of the skill section, read this first part. In all honesty, this is the trickiest part to building a mauler. You can’t just pump maul and be good to go. The reason is because the number of hits required to reach your max damage grows every two levels of Maul. At level 1 it starts at 3 hits. Levels 2 and 3 it takes 4 hits, levels 4 and 5 it takes 5 hits, levels 6 and 7 it takes 6 hits, and so on. This means that the higher you get Maul, the less likely it is that you will reach your max damage in a duel. After about level 15 (10 hits to reach max damage) you’re mainly just putting points into Maul for AR, which is actually just as important.

    What I recommend is that you wait until you have your equipment on to use skill points. Once you do then add points into maul until you get over 3k AR without having HoW active. Next, put a point in HoW if you haven’t yet, and then divide up points in Bear and Lycan.

    You’ll have to determine for yourself which you need more based upon your equipment and your charms. If you have a lot of max/ar charms, but few life charms, then you’ll want lycan for life. If you have a lot of life charms, but very few max/ar charms then you will want werebear.

    I personally prefer bear over lycan in most cases. You will be gaining a decent amount of life from your bear form anyway, and in most cases extra defense and damage will help if you’re just starting off.

    For those of you that need hard numbers, here is my initial suggestion based on a Hell Rushed character with 41 stat points to burn:

    Lycan: 10
    Bear: 15
    Maul 13
    HoW: 1
    Wolf: 1
    Oak: 1

    This should get you to 3k AR on most setups (if you don’t need 13 points in Maul to get there then stick them in either Bear or Lycan). It will take you 9 hits to reach max damage, and you should have around 700 life. You could have considerably more depending on gear and charms. However, like I said, get yourself 3k AR without HoW active, then worry about your other skills. You may find Maul ends up close to level 20, but if that’s what it takes, then that’s what it takes. If you can’t hit your enemy, you won’t win.

    As for HoW, one point in it and you’re done. You want it to be a threat, but you do not want to be dependant upon it. If killing your HoW means you drop 1/3 of your damage and AR then you’re pretty much going to lose most of your duels. Don’t use Sage. It’s a waste and it will get you killed.


    Breakpoints and other stats to shoot for

    Remember I said the Mauler Hierarchy of Needs is Speed, Defense/Life, and Damage? Well, it’s time to talk about Speed.

    Breakpoints you need at all times:

    Faster Block Rate – 40 FBR (7 Frames)
    Faster Hit Recovery – 54 FHR (7 Frames)
    Faster Attack Speed – 5 Frame Attack (only IAS on your weapon will play a part in this)

    What I mean by “need at all times” is, if you do not always have at least these three breakpoints taken care of you will lose. I mean it. We’re talking just Save and Exit here if you don’t listen.

    I also highly recommend that you are able to reach the 86 FHR (6 Frames) breakpoint at all times. I do not always need it, but there are times where it comes in handy and I have an armor in my stash with 44 FHR on it just in case.

    Stats to shoot for:

    Life: 1000+ (1.5k+ preferred)
    AR: 3000+ (Higher the better, I currently have about 6k on both my maulers)
    Damage: 1000+ Max without HoW (This is hard to get, and is likely what will take you the longest)
    Defense: 2000+ (1.5k is really what you’ll need in most cases, but the more the better)
    FRW: You will need to have as close to 100 FRW as you can get at your disposal at all times for casters, even if you’re not always using it or wearing the items that get you there.

    Alright, now that we’ve covered the hard numbers you’re going for, lets talk about how you get there.


    Equipment

    I’m going to have to be honest. I’m pretty set in my ways. People may come up with other gear choices that work for them, but I like what I use and I’ll likely not budge unless a mauler comes along that just smashes me every time. Here is a run down on your basic options, your dream gear, and what I prefer. This will be a long section, but I want to be sure people know there are many options out there, regardless of how rigid I personally am with my own setup.

    Helm

    Pcrown: Even if you don’t use it, you want one in your stash for the FRW. Shael it unless you have a lot of FHR charms. If you do, then I prefer a Pruby. You can use max jewels if you really want, but it’s a waste on a pcrown.

    White pelt with skills you use on it: It’s not a bad choice, really. You can get your three sockets and stick it full of all sorts of jewels, gems, and runes, but it’s not really what I prefer. The reason is because you need AR to cut down on skills invested in Maul, and you’re not getting AR from this.

    Blue 2SS Pelt with other skills you use: Again, it’s not a bad choice, especially if you can get two sockets and nice mods. It’s just not my style.

    Rare 2SS helm with other skills you use on it: THIS is what I shoot for. Get one with some AR, Visionary is your godsend for this. 2os would be great as well, along with life. Hard to find, but I personally think it can’t be beat.

    Dream Helm: 2SS, 3 Lycan, 3 Bear, and 3 Maul with the Visionary mod, life, and 2os. Oh I can dream…

    Armor

    4os Sup Ancient or Mage Plate: When I first started again I had a 15ed Ancient with 4 Prubies in it. It’s a perfectly respectable armor for someone working his or her way up, and pretty easy to come by.

    Holy Ancient/Mage of Squid: It needs to have 2os, or it’s not worth it. I say Holy (Enhanced Defense) instead of Artisans because you want to focus on def. That’s what the bear has going for it, use your advantages. I put 2 Prubies in mine. Again, you’re welcome to use max jewels if you want, but I haven’t used a single max jewel since I changed my build and I have not missed them.

    Holy Ancient/Mage of Stability: When I started the latest ladder I shopped a Holy Ancient Armor of Stability. Took me three tries to get 2 sockets, but you cannot beat the fhr. I still use it when I need 86 fhr. It’s Pruby and Shael’d for survivability.

    Peace Mage Plate: This is what I currently use most of the time. For the longest time I swore off Peace, but dangit, the critical strike is too nice to ignore. Plus, it has some FHR.

    Dream Armor: Eth rare Ornate Plate with self-repair, high ed, 2os, stability mod, -reqs, and any other nice mod the D2 gods would like to give me. Oh how I would love that…

    Weapon—You are getting your IAS from your weapons. For more information take a look at the wereform attack speed calculator here.

    6 Shael’d Crystal Sword/Dimensional Blade: Perfectly acceptable choice. You hit your 5 frame attack and you save on some stat points. However, you lose range and damage. Damage I could deal with (well, maybe not with the Crystal Sword), but range is needed. Though, for all I know you may try it and like it.

    6 Shael’d Naga: I use this. You do more damage than with the swords, you hit just as fast, and you have a higher range. Also, it’s a hefty str requirement, but it just adds more to your damage. I know people that swore this off as simply not workable with the str required. To each their own, try it out, see what you like best.

    War/Grim Scythe: You need 90 IAS to get to 5 frames. How you choose to get there on this weapon is up to you. However, you do need one of these two in your stash, and you do need it to hit 5 frames. Beyond that, it’s up to you which you use and how you get to that frame. It’s for those fast little casters. I will be honest again, I tend not to need it most of the time.

    Shield

    Whitstan's Guard: This is an all around good shield. You hit your FBR breakpoint, you have a huge Chance to Block mod, and it has some nice defense for its level. When I use this I tend to stick a pdiamond in it. Also, this shield only needs 67 dex to get max block.

    Rhyme Shield: This is what I use. I use a Sup Grim Shield. I like it because I get my Cannot Be Frozen mod, resistance, mana regeneration, and my 40 FBR breakpoint. Plus, who knows, maybe that 25% extra MF will get me a Lenymo from random fallens that I kill waiting to duel. The down side, you need 90 dex for max block when using the Grim.

    Artisan’s Shield of Deflection: I have not ever used this. I doubt that I ever will. The up sides are that it will cut down on the points you need for max block and you can easily get your FBR breakpoint with some extra sockets to spare for res or damage. The down side is it locks you into Death’s Sash for CBF and will likely be lower defense than your other options. Remember, that’s what you’re partially focusing on. You just need to decide if you want flexibility in your belt or not, because if you go with this you’re going with Death’s Sash.

    Gloves

    Bloodfists: I do not negotiate on this. These are your gloves, period. Huge FHR, Life, and a little bit of damage. The ONLY time you can take these off is if you are putting on Death’s gloves for the poison damage length reduction. Otherwise, you wear your Bloodfists and you like it. Up them if you have a high ed pair, the extra defense never hurt anyone… especially a Werebear.

    Belt

    Death’s Belt: If you did not go with Rhyme as your shield this will be your belt.

    Rare FHR Belt: If you need some extra FHR this is always a nice option, and res on these things never hurt anyone.

    String of Ears: I use this most of the time. The DR and MDR is pretty nice, and the defense an’t too shabby either.

    Boots[/u}

    Cow King’s: These are some nice boots. If you’re hurting for stat points the 20 dex from these is the most you’re going to get from any option at this level. The FRW is great as well. Plus, if you have Rhyme you have 50% MF to get yourself a Diggler.

    Sander’s: I use these. The FRW is insane, they give you AR, and you get 15 stat points. All around great pair of LLD boots. Plus they don’t have one of those stupid mods you have no use for on there taunting you.

    Rare FRW/FHR boots: If you really need res or something, sure… why not. However, only use them if you don’t need the stats from boots, though. It’s always better to get your stats from equipment than charms. Always.

    Jewelry:

    Angelics: If you’re just starting out you’ll want these. They give you a load of life, some replenish life (hey, I love to avoid going to Akara if I can) and massive AR. They will cut down on your need for points in Maul.

    AR/Stat/Res Rare Rings: I used these for a little while when I was trying to get SoJs. They work pretty well, but you’re not going to get as much AR as Angelics. Bottom line, if you don’t have a really good rare ammy to go with these then you are better off sticking with Angelics.

    SoJs: Once you start to get a fair amount of AR from charms, a helm with AR on it, and a nice rare ammy, it’s time to get a couple of these. There is simply no substitute for +skills in dueling and the mana is always nice.

    Rare +2 SS Ammy: This is your goal. Aside from your charms, a good SS Ammy and Pelt will determine if you’re a good Werebear, or one of the best. You want +2 SS, stats (life is best), and Res. Anything less is not good enough.

    Charms: You want Max Damage/Attack Rating/Life charms. If you need to make up FHR then do so, but it’s better to get it from your equips. If res is needed, you can use res charms as well, but eventually you will want to get as much as you can from your equipment. Defense charms are acceptable alternatives for this build, and you may even prefer them for some duels. However, the dream inventory will always be 40x 3/20/15’s.

    Switch: Spirit sword and Sig’s Shield for casting HoW and Bear.


    What you can and cannot expect from this character

    I’m going to be blunt. You’re not a top tier dueler. You will lose badly to most dedicated ranged LLDers. Your FHR is not fast enough to beat a top trapper, you will not build damage up fast enough to beat a top necro, and a high defense sorc with max block will prove nearly impossible to hit usually. Hammerdins… well, they are just their own special case.

    That said, Zons are usually pretty easy, and of the other ranged builds, if they aren’t top of the line, you’ve got a decent shot if you play smart and utilize the speed I have told you to build up (both in breakpoints and in FRW). Smiters will be a challenge pretty consistently. Eventually you’ll see an improvement in duels with smiters, but be ready to be smacked around really good for a long time first. I’ve met very few chargers that are a challenge.

    As for melee chars, Conc barbs will be a pain in the butt if they are top of the line. You need to build up your defense for them and hope for the best. Aside from that, you’re pretty much the king of melee… not that there are many melee characters left. Wolves may be a special case, but I never see them do duel on the current ladder, and on the last ladder I don’t remember many that gave me a problem.

    I do have to say this as well. When you start, especially if you do not have all your charms yet, your damage will be very low. Do not let it bother you. You just need to build them up. Where other builds are spending on max jewels, you’re spending on your charms. Once you do, you’ll be amazed at how much of an impact one charm can have on your damage, attack rating, and life.
     
  2. Uncle_Mike

    Uncle_Mike D2 PvP Moderator

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    Looks nice :thumbsup:

    Mind sharing full stats of your werebear? What is your total life? Ar? Defense? :smiley:

    What do other LLD'ers think about it?
     
  3. inanefedaykin

    inanefedaykin IncGamers Member

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    His ideas seem odd (prubies over maxers!) but both his maulers are pretty scary.
     
  4. brokensvt

    brokensvt IncGamers Member

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    It's about time "Paddington" became a household name again! Nice job Smitty. It's been a while since we've had a clash of the titans, look me up sometime, or maybe I'll see you in-game! Fluffy is on his fourth(final?) rebuild.
     
  5. jakotaco

    jakotaco IncGamers Member

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    Why not going all the way and hit the 4fpa attack at 120% IAS ? the option is at least worth mentioning.
     
  6. brokensvt

    brokensvt IncGamers Member

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    Because the requirements for a Grim Scythe without -requirements are unachievable at level 30 without stat charms/gear. Stat charms/gear are worthless at 30 for the life you lose by using them.
     
  7. SmittySixTen

    SmittySixTen IncGamers Member

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    Uncle_Mike: Thanks. Full stats are here:

    I'll have to give you a few different stats for Paddington, as they vary widely.

    First with SoJs/SS Ammy

    Max Damage
    Uncharged Maul, no HoW: 599
    Uncharged Maul /w HoW: 691
    Fully Charged, no HoW: 945 (as you can see, he was not quite done when ladder ended)
    Full charged /w HoW: 1037
    AR without HoW: 3893
    AR with HoW: 4740
    Defense: 2136
    Life: 1776

    Angelics:
    Uncharged Maul, no HoW: 538
    Uncharged Maul /w HoW: 611
    Fully Charged, no HoW: 831
    Full charged /w HoW: 904
    AR without HoW: 5745
    AR with HoW: 6894
    Defense: 1964
    Life: 1794

    Skill Levels with SoJs and +2 SS Ammy:
    Lycan: 15 (18 when bear is cast)
    Bear: 21 (24 when cast)
    Maul: 20
    HoW: 5 (8 when cast--I put extra points initially because I wanted it to be a more attractive target before I got my +skill gear. I would have likely only put 1 point in had I ever re-made)


    Altered-Beast--He's a major work in progress at the moment. Currently only uses angelics.

    Uncharged Maul, no HoW: 484
    Uncharged Maul /w HoW: 567
    Fully Charged, no HoW: 724
    Full charged /w HoW: 807
    --The previous two figures are low. They should be ~30 damage higher right now. I am not exactly positive what is causing the lower damage. I probably swapped in the wrong charms last time I had to put frw on.
    AR without HoW: 4345
    AR with HoW: 5631
    Defense: 1749
    Life: 1232

    When I use my FHR armor:
    Defense: 2094
    Life: 1313--Keep in mind that increase is from a single Pruby and a relatively low Lycan level.

    Current Skill levels:
    Lycan: 7 (10 when Bear is cast)
    Bear: 17 (20 when cast)
    Maul: 14
    HoW: 5 (8 when cast--Same as Padd, it needs to be a viable target right now. When I remake it will get 1 point)

    This guy should easily surpass Paddington in every single stat category once I get him fully geared the way I want. I actually intend for him to also be able to transform into a Wolf and use Shockwave (maybe). However, for now he's just a Mauler.


    inanefedaykin: It saves you a lot of time/wealth hunting down high maxers, too.

    brokensvt: Sure. Paddington hasn't changed at all since the last time, though. He's kind of stagnating while I work on Ladder characters.

    jakotaco: I actually did go put all Shaels in a War Scythe, and I didn't notice a difference. I ended up preferring P Amethysts for a little extra AR once I got to 5 frames. As for the Grim, like brokensvt said, you simply cannot get to those stat requirements and still have ANYTHING to work with. I personally think using a Grim is silly, but to each their own.
     
  8. Queen Mebd

    Queen Mebd IncGamers Member

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    For being your first guide it's a wonderful starting point Smitty. :thumbsup:

    One thing I'd like to see added to the next version would be where the best places to shop for those holy mage plates of the squid or stability and artisan's tower shields of deflecting - this might be pretty useful information for anyone who's looking to start a mauler. Also is there a good location for farming charms if you're interested in rerolling for 3/20/15's?
     
  9. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Site Pal

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    you forgot vs kickers :grin:
     
  10. inanefedaykin

    inanefedaykin IncGamers Member

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    One thing to address, SoJs and the MDR bug.
     
  11. Zangeif

    Zangeif IncGamers Member

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    This is a well written guide, but there are a few things I disagree strongly with.

    Peace is a good choice for armor, and when using peace, sojs are obviously the best choice despite the mdr bug. However, you mentioned using a 4 socket Ancient Armor with 4 PRubies. This seems like a terrible choice - maxers would be much more beneficial than PRubies. Also, an artisans armor of the squid would be a better choice than a 4os armor.

    I think the obvious helm choice would be a 3os +3maul helm socketed with maxers. The ideal helm would be +2ss/+3maul 2os, but this would be very hard to find. By the way, lycan and werebear can't spawn on such a helm as they are tier 1 skills.

    The best shield without a doubt is an ATSoD. I don't know why you say this locks you into using deaths sash. Very few LLDs have a source of cold damage, and for those that do, you'll probably be using your Grim Scythe anyway, and therefore having no shield. Besides, even when your ATSoD does lock you into using Death's, 3 sockets are much better than the stats you would lose on a belt.
     
  12. SmittySixTen

    SmittySixTen IncGamers Member

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    Queen Mebd: To be honest, I'm not really one to answer shopping questions. I just kind of wing it when I'm looking for something. However, Charsi seems like a good start for a Deflecting shield to me. All the stabilities I shopped were from Hell Larzuk. I actually just shopped one today, but it was only 1 socket from the quest. =/ As for the charms, I'm not sure what the best ilvl to roll is, mainly because I don't really roll charms just to get lld charms.

    crawlingdeadman: Pfff... only one kicker ever gave me a problem. :p

    inanefedaykin: The damage, defense, and life you get from SoJs will outweigh any damage lost if someone happens to have enough MDR to counter what's on them.

    Zangeif: First, I stated that I used the 4os armor when I first started off dueling again. I couldn't afford much else at the time, and it did the trick. It's not something I would stick with once I got a more suitable replacement, but it got the job done when I used it.

    As for the helm, a Bear isn't a Wolf. It's not going to get nearly as much AR from skills as a wolf will, and as such it needs more AR from items to be viable. The obvious choice is NOT a white 3os with +3 Maul, because you cannot get any AR from that. It is a perfectly viable and acceptable choice, but it is simply not the bottom line in helms. If you're not getting AR from your helm as a LLD Mauler, then you're not able to wear SoJs or a rare SS Amulet because you need to use Angelics.

    The ATSoD is the same case, it is a perfectly viable option, but I don't think it is the best option hands down. You automatically need to use one socket for a Shael, otherwise you're simply blocking too slowly. The loss in defense isn't worth it to me just for a couple of max damage jewels, which brings me to my next point.

    Damage, as I said, is the very last thing a mauler needs to focus on. I know your mindset is wolves, and yes, they do need to up their damage a lot more than bears do. However, a mauler isn't going to have anywhere near the AR as a wolf, or even a FC bear. When you use a mauler you need to make sure that character stays alive long enough to reach max maul. This means you need defense and life over outright damage. It is also why AR is so much more sought after for a Mauler than it is a Fury wolf or FC bear.

    EDIT: Just to expand on that, you need to note that throughout the guide I was saying Maul needs to be limited. It's your main source of AR, but you want it to be no higher than level 20 (and lower is better if you can). You can't lower the skill level of your AR source and not make up that AR somewhere else. It just doesn't work that way.

    I know it seems very odd, but if you focus just on damage as a mauler I can't see it turning out well. Someone may come along and prove me wrong, but I just haven't seen the "damage is king" attitude work with a mauler in 1.11.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2007
  13. brokensvt

    brokensvt IncGamers Member

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    Smitty, I hope you don't mind my filling in this blank for you. Here is where I tend to shop for certain desirable LLD melee items. When I refer to Gheed+Charsi, I mean to make games until you get the town gate between the two of them, it makes for more efficient shopping efforts. All shopping is in Hell mode, btw.

    *3os Life armors: Anya, Gheed+Charsi. All are fairly equal in giving Light Plates. Anya is nice for the occasional Mage Plate(defense+ no r/w penalty), and Gheed+Charsi the occasional Gothic(sex appeal).
    *3os FHR armors: Same as above.
    *Deflecting Tower Shield: Gheed+Charsi
    *Deflecting Gothic Shield: Anya
    *Deflecting Grim Shield: Anya. This gal will also give up the "Holy" prefix on occasion. Just the other day I snagged both a "Holy Grim Shield of Deflecting" and a "Holy Mage Plate of the Squid" from her, and both took two sockets.
    *Deflecting Bone Shield: This is nice for low requirements, and VBSoD's are still nice for a level 9 dueler, though they seem to have fallen out of vogue. This can be shopped from Drognan in A2.

    PS: As for my "credentials," many here can attest to my EPIC 18-hour shopping spree for the latest AToD, among other trips to the vendors.
     
  14. Zangeif

    Zangeif IncGamers Member

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    I hope you're not taking offense that I disagree with a lot of your choices.

    Here's what you listed for helm choices:

    But then when I suggest a 3os +3Maul helm you reply with

    None of the helms you suggested give any bonus to AR either (except the dream pelt which actually can never spawn) On the other hand, a 3os +3Maul pelt not only gives a good damage boost, but it also could give quite a bit of AR. If you fill sockets with 15/60 jewels (or better if you can get them) it will help out your AR (and damage) much more than a helm like PCrown ever could.

    I'm also confident that an ATSoD is the best choice. Even if you want to Shael it to move up a frame in fbr, that's still a 2 socket advantage that it has over the Rhyme that you use. Jewels (and charms) are what make or break LLD melees and getting an extra 2 sockets is much more beneficial than getting CBF. And like I said, you can always slap on Deaths when you need CBF anyway.

    I just don't understand this at all. I obviously know that there are other important aspects to melee characters other than damage, but to say that damage is ther last thing a melee character needs to focus on seems ridiculous. While I understand that you want to reach max maul, it's also very important that you do decent damage once max maul is reached.

    I also don't understand why you focus on defense at all. LLD melee's have around 7k AR at the least (my druid hits near 11k with angelics) and 2k defense will only reduce their chance to hit you slightly.
     
  15. SmittySixTen

    SmittySixTen IncGamers Member

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    I was unaware that re-explaining, or elaborating why I made a specific choice inherently meant I was taking offense to you. Stating that only makes it seem like you're either hypersensitive to disagreement or that you intended me to take offense.

    Actually, my response was that yes, what you suggested is a viable option, but that it is wrong to assert that it's the single best option for this build. As I stated in the equipment section, I am pretty set in my opinion as to what I think is the best, but I do recognize that there are other options out there. Everyone will have their own opinion, they just need to have a rational for what they choose.

    Actually I said to try to get a rare +2SS with AR, preferably with the Visionary mod. Just for the record.

    What I'm basically getting at is that you have to break from the usual mindset of LLD melee chars to be successful with a Mauler. The defense is key in almost all melee duels. Also, in most games you won't know when you need CBF and when you don't. I'd prefer to have some DR, CBF, some res, and my 40 FBR on at all times in case I get jumped. Would this change if I were in a private duel game? Of course, but in pubs you just never know.

    You will do decent damage, because that's innately what a bear does. If you spend your time focusing on damage then you're just building up one aspect of the character, and weakening the overall build. Like I said, I tried to do this at first, and it simply did not work. The differences in 1.09 and 1.11 are too vast for the old style of a Mauler to function, so damage has to take a back seat to survivability.

    Which melees exactly? From what I remember, your druid has a level 10+ HoW, meaning that AR number isn't entirely accurate. The top lld melee characters may hit around 7k AR consistently, but in about 80% of the duels 2k defense with max block will be pretty darn hard to hit by anyone's standards.

    Let me be clear. I fully understand the concept of not focusing on max damage is weird to a lot of people, but with this build it works. I fully intended to base my maulers around max damage when I first started to LLD in 1.11. However, in the mauler's case it simply does not work. This is why you haven't seen many successful maulers. People stuck to the "damage is king" mentality, and it did not work.

    Bottom line, you are more than welcome to disagree with me. I'm simply stating what I have seen work, and what I have seen not work. You can either accept this as a viable build, or you cannot. It's really up to you.



     
  16. Zangeif

    Zangeif IncGamers Member

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    No, I just didn't want you to take offense like most people do when I criticize their builds. A lot of people get pretty offended by me.

    The only time you mentioned a visionary helm was when you mentioned the "dream helm" which actually can't ever spawn. All of your other helm options had nothing to do with AR.

    In pub normal games if you get jumped, it's by a low level who isn't built for LLD. They won't pose a threat regardless of whether you have 15% DR or CBF.

    Not at all. 75% block obviously means that you will block much more often than you will be hit. However, the 2k defense has a very miniscule difference in your chance to be hit. Defense smiters have 35k defense. Good conc barbs have around 18k. 2k defense does not make any noticeable difference.

    You say it "works" but you also admitted that this build will lose to most dedicated LLDers. It seems like the truth is that the build doesn't actually work, but you're proud of making a unique LLDer. Honestly, I know how the mechanics of maul work, and I know it can't be a competitive LLDer regardless of how you build your character. However, I'm sure that my gear suggestions are more efficient than a Rhyme PCrown build socketed with PRubies.
     
  17. SmittySixTen

    SmittySixTen IncGamers Member

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    If people tend to take offense by you it's probably because of how you present yourself, and not the mere fact you are criticizing a build. :thumbsup:

    That was in my original post.

    Are level restrictions on? If not then I completely disagree. However, it'd be pointless to go there anyway, because both of us could come up with random hypothetical situations that favor our own opinion.

    What does my opponents defense have to do with their ability to hit me?

    Ranged characters will give this build a problem, yes, but I hardly see how that information would set you off on this little rant of yours. There are a lot of characters that will give this build a run for its money in stiff competition, but that's why there is no one purely dominate melee build from what I've seen. Anyway, I don't know where your comment about this build not working came from. There are a good number of people on these forums that have seen both of my maulers, and they can tell you if it works or not.

    Also, you seem to have a fixation on my choice of helms, while still not actually re-reading that section to see what I was actually suggesting. Do I need to quote myself again? As for the shield, I don't think the ATSoD is the better option. I've stated why, and you've stated why you disagree. Ultimately it's up to whoever decides they want to use the guide if they agree with you or if they agree with me.

    I think you need to start considering how you present your opinions, Zangeif. From what you've said in this thread I can tell you the reason most people take offense to you has a lot to do with how you criticize builds, not the mere fact that you do.



     
  18. Zangeif

    Zangeif IncGamers Member

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    I think it's because people are too sensitive, and when they post mediocre guides they get raged when I point out all the defiencies of the build. I've never sugar coated anything that I post. My advice is top of the line, but if you're offended by the language I word it in, then feel free to ignore it.

    Anyway, you're right that I missed the part where you mentioned that a +2 SS/visionary/AR/2os circlet is the best choice for a mauler. Well, considering that all 4 of those are mods prefixes, it can't exist either.

    Agreed. I just assumed that such a comprehensive guide wouldnt be geared towards dueling a level 74 tals sorc in a pub game.

    Nothing. I thought it was clear what I was trying to accomplish by posting the defense of LLD smiters and conc barbs. By comparing 35k defense to your 2k defense, it demonstrates how low 2k is compared to these other high def builds. Even a good level 9 smiter hits 2k defense. I can't find the link to the chance to hit calculator, but my guess is the difference between hitting 500 and 2k defense (vs. 7k AR) is less than 5%.

    Every equally geared melee character will completely demolish you as well.

    Well, you already admitted that your mauler loses to ranged characters. Now I'll compare your stats to my LLD fury druid. I'll even post the stats of your FULLY CHARGED maul vs. my regular fury attack.

    Werebear fully charged Max Damage: "Full charged /w HoW: 1037"
    My Fury druid: 2223

    Werebear Fully charged AR: "AR with HoW: 4740"
    My Fury Druid: 7241

    Werebear life: "Life: 1776"
    My Fury Druid: 2723

    Your FPA: "Faster Attack Speed – 5 Frame Attack"
    My Fury Druid: 4 Frame attack (6/4)

    Your FBR: "Faster Block Rate - 40FBR (7 Frames)"
    My Fury Druid: 6 Frame

    Your FHR: "Faster Hit Recovery – 54 FHR (7 Frames)"
    My Fury Druid: 4 Frame

    So, you've admitted that you can't beat ranged characters. By the stats I've posted it's clear that you can't come close to beating a top notch melee either. Maybe you should consider my advice.
     
  19. SmittySixTen

    SmittySixTen IncGamers Member

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    I never said your advice was invalid. However, I do think your ego makes people much less apt to listen to you. The fact that you know it's the wording you use that offends people shows you really have no real intent to actually offer advice, but would rather just try and invalidate other people's builds.

    Never said to try and get both Visionary and AR on it. Though, it seems like the helm topic is a lost cause with you at this point.

    And I wouldn't have thought you would limit yourself to private games when you have an entire realm of people to duel with your wolf.

    Chance to Hit

    100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)

    If I did my math right, there's a 93% chance to hit if it is two level 30's, the attacker has 7k AR, and the defender has 500 defense. This drops to 77% if the defense is increased to 2k.

    EDIT: Never mind, don't even want to hear it.

    Ah, so that's what all this is really about.

    I'm not going to bother comparing stats. You're talking apples and oranges in every manner. I'll go out on a limb and say you spent a vastly larger amount of time and wealth building your druid than I did. I could be wrong, because I don't know how long it took you to build it or how much you actually put into it, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. Due to that, the two are incomparable.


    That said, I'm going to take your "top notch" advice and add you to my ignore list now. I wasn't going to until I got to that last little bit, but I've treated you with complete respect, and if you're not going to do the same then I really have no desire to read what you have to say. It's pretty sad that you're the only person I've ever had to do that with on here, and you probably won't even take the hint...



     
  20. Zangeif

    Zangeif IncGamers Member

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    No, that's not what it's really about. I'm not using this thread to brag about my Fury druid. I'm just using him as an example that your mauler can't beat good melee characters. You already admitted that you can't beat good ranged characters.

    So... what can you beat?
     

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