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Its it worth while to ist a gull dagger or use a 6 ist Crystal Sword?

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by SalivaMonster, Feb 14, 2006. | Replies: 15 | Views: 887

  1. SalivaMonster

    SalivaMonster IncGamers Member

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    Its it worth while to ist a gull dagger or use a 6 ist Crystal Sword?

    Can someone tell me what is the effect on effective mf% if I increase my mf% from 555 to 585 and 635?
  2. Ididmephistosmom

    Ididmephistosmom IncGamers Member

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    mf has diminishing returns... unless you're really rich i say dont go overboard on those 6 isted weapons and just aim for 400-500mf
  3. icicle

    icicle IncGamers Member

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    Grab a Blade of Ali Baba. It has 2 os and you can put your Ists there.

    6 Ists Crystal sword = 180mf
    2 Ists Ali Baba = 150+ mf (assuming you're lvl 90+)

    You end up saving 4 Ists with a mere 30mf reduction.
  4. SalivaMonster

    SalivaMonster IncGamers Member

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    I'm thinking if the 4 ist is worth while in the long run. To think about that I need to know the exact effective mf gain from the extra 30%mf.
  5. anonymite

    anonymite IncGamers Member

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    Unless you're just sitting on a mountain of Ists, probably not. Though if you do have a bunch of Ists lying around, then I guess every little bit helps.

    From the point of view of unique items, your effective MF goes's like this
    172 at MF 555
    175 at MF 585
    179 at MF 635

    The forumula for uniques is Effective MF = (250*MF)/(250+MF)

    Meaning overall, you can expect to find 2.5% more uniques over the long run with the extra 80 MF. Of, course if you maintain, say 400 MF but make the runs 10%+ faster, you make out better in the long run.
  6. icicle

    icicle IncGamers Member

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    If you MF is already very high (>300) without the sword, then the extra 30MF doesn't matter much given diminishing returns. If your MF is low without the sword (say 100), then perhaps the extra 30 will mean more.

    In any case, I personally don't believe in getting a lot of MF. My Windy has less than 150MF and he has no problem getting elite uniques. My wife's hammerdin's MF is slightly less than 250 and he found a Death Fathom and Griffon this lad. In the previous lad, my cold sorc had MF over 400 and never found things as good as my wife's hammerdin did (the best item for the 400mf sorc last lad was a +1/4X death web). Hence, I don't believe in going all out to attain those incredibly high level of MF.
  7. SalivaMonster

    SalivaMonster IncGamers Member

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    I believe in luck because I've found 28%Death fathom, 22%Maraz and a Hoz in a 6 hours period this laddder. But I also believe in statistics. And 2.5% gain in effective mf return means something to me. Imagine your mortgage rate is raised by 2.5%, what do you think? Is it significant?
  8. icicle

    icicle IncGamers Member

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    There's a difference between 2.5% of an absolute value compared to a 2.5% chance over an indefinite period of time. You can't quantify the latter. At most, you can calculate the expected value. => luck

    Further to that, your example of mortgage isn't really relevant since 2.5% of USD 1 million is significant but 2.5% of USD 1 isn't.

    I'd personally prefer configuring the MF level till significant diminishing return sets in and stop there. This is analogous to buying lottery tickets. Say a ticket costs USD 3. I'd rather buy 1-2 tickets if I want to have a go at the lottery (which will cost me USD 6) than buy 200 tickets to improve my chances at a cost of USD 600.

    Finally, if you noticed, I've been using "personally" all these while. This is just my personal preference and in no way am I saying that you're wrong. :azn:
  9. Dadou

    Dadou IncGamers Member

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    Even if I can't say i'm unlucky, my best MF is my trade skill. MF is good to find all around items, but for specifics, I trade.

    BTW now, I mainly use PTopaz in gear i chose rather than going all MF gear. My killing speed stays at best, i feel safe (HC player), and I make more runs.

    I run Hell at 260MF with java, and 430 in NM.

    My IK baba should be around 220 when fully equipped.

    Maybe I'll try a Frenzy with skullder, WTs and so on just to see ;o)
  10. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    That means you won't be happy until you have these few percents of extra effective MF. If you want to be happy and you can afford it, then do it :azn:

    Mortgage: It depends on how quickly you can pay off your debts. The longer you need, the bigger the effects of a raise in interest rates are. Even a seemingly small increase in interest rates can have severe consequences. Example: You borrow $1000 and pay an interest rate of 5% per year. After 20 years, your debts will be at $1000* ((1+5/100)^20) = $2653. If the interest rate is at 7.5%, it will be $4248 - nearly twice as much. If you can't pay back enough to compensate the interest rates, you are ruined because your debts will rise forever then and it will become worse and worse. However, that's a completely different calculation than MF considerations.
  11. the boss

    the boss IncGamers Member

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    Killing power with 300%mf > weak power with 500% mf
  12. SalivaMonster

    SalivaMonster IncGamers Member

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    Actually, my situation is very specific. I run baal mostly. have around 430-460mf while I walk to baal with Isted Leoric, come back to town to sell stuff for gold, switch gear and then let my skellies and merc kill baal for me. So basically Baal die within 30-40sec with whatever gears I use. My only doubt is what gears to put on in Baal's chamber.
  13. terpfan

    terpfan IncGamers Member

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    I don’t really like the mortgage example because if you rate is 2.5% higher (from say, 7.5% originally)…then your new 10% rate is 33% more than original.

    Contrast this with the 2.5% difference of that 175% ( with 580ish mf). It results in a rate that is about 1.4% more than the original. So ask yourself this: Is finding 101 uniques when you would normally have found 100 in the same number of runs worth an investment of those ists? For some, I guess it would be. But for me(poor guy), it’s not.
  14. SalivaMonster

    SalivaMonster IncGamers Member

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    hm.....

    point taken.
  15. thegiantturtle

    thegiantturtle IncGamers Member

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    Another issue with the mortgage example is that with interest, the amount of debt compounds, but that's not true of unique item finding. If I could raise my mf to have double the chance of a unique, i'd get double the uniques in the long run, if I raised a mortgage rate to double, then I'd owe considerably more than double over the long haul (assuming the same payment).
  16. Darnoc

    Darnoc IncGamers Member

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