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Iraq sovereignty thread #33461

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by IDupedInMyPants, Jun 17, 2004. | Replies: 17 | Views: 447

  1. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    Iraq sovereignty thread #33461

    Old topic, I know, but there appears to be a twist not yet brought up here to my knowledge.

    I've come to the realization that our current UNSC-granted exemption from ICC prosecution for war crimes expires June 30. We don't have the 9 votes needed to pass another extension, and Annan is now actively asking the UNSC to stop shielding us from international law. Small wonder then that Bush is now lobbying the UN to pass a resolution supporting Iraqi sovereignty. This resolution would essentially set up a precedent for the idea that we have no power over what happens in Iraq starting from, conveniently, the date on which we would start being held responsible for our actions in war.

    I am now absolutely certain that this transfer will happen. I'd bet the bank on it.
  2. Anidem

    Anidem Banned

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    Care to guess how long we will have a military presence there?
  3. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    I'd imagine that the political capital Shrub will lose if the handover does not go down as planned is much more important to the current administration than silly UN resolutions.
  4. Steve_Kow

    Steve_Kow Banned

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    I'd be surprised if (exemption or no exemption) the U.S govt would allow or recognize any trial anyway. I mean, who has the power to enforce it? I can't see Donald Rumsfeld being brought up in front of an international court...isn't going to happen.
  5. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    Excellent searching. :thumbsup:

    That would explain why June 30th was chosen.

    Beyond that this isn't much of anything. The UNSC exemption on the other hand would make for another good argument.
  6. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    The rest of your life. But at worst it would only be individual soldiers facing charges and there'd be no way to climb the diplomatic ladder and blame it on someone who matters, because nobody that matters will technically be in charge anymore.

    And yeah, I think Bush doesn't care too much about UN resolutions, but at the same time he doesn't appear to value political capital all that much either. Four months before the elections is still enough time to damage control something like that, especially since most of us still believe Hussein was one of the 9/11 pilots.
  7. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    Go get better educated on creeping gradualism and you'll find that assumption to be false.

    Considering there were 17 UN resolutions over 12 years and it ultimately was the US led coalition that took Saddam out. Anybody can see how it'd be hard to take them seriously.
    On the subject of political capital, isn't that what you'd want in a polititian? Somebody who so believes in what he's doing he's willing to risk everything? Or somebody like Sen. Kerry who changes his mind on just about everything depending on who he's talking to?
  8. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    I reckon you don't have the faintest idea as to what political capital is or how it works, Smeg. But you did manage to get in a shot at Kerry, so I guess you accomplished your goal.
  9. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    Score one on the Kerry hit, lose the game on the capital.

    I like my presidents willing to lay it all out. Worrying about the score isn't the way to get things done.
  10. ash2ash

    ash2ash IncGamers Member

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    I am actually suprised that nobody has picked up on this yet. Way to go IDMP - you should seriously consider sending in an editorial to your local newspaper or something - As far as I can tell (googlesearch), some news articles hint at this, but NOBODY has actually picked this out as a rationale for the June 30th transfer.
  11. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris IncGamers Member

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    Interesting take Duped - and I'd venture extremely valid.

    I suppose we'll all see what transpires in the weeks after June 30th comes and goes. Either way, the U.S. will have a damaged international image for years to come... perhaps even as much as a decade or more.

    ... that and the independent commission on 9/11 demonstrated that Iraq had no real ties with Al Qaeda - therefore, the war is not justified given the original rationale for engaging in it.
  12. Anidem

    Anidem Banned

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    Well, the UN kinda did it to themselves by not bothering to follow up on there own resolutions.

    Before this is all said and done I think another governing body should replace the UN. I know Europe is gunshy being that all the biggest wars have ravaged them, But we need a group that isnt so Euro-centric.
  13. Plum

    Plum IncGamers Member

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    Uh, how much power does Europe actually hold in the UN? Not much. The countries that primarily are favoured are the small, developing nations, not Europe.
  14. Anidem

    Anidem Banned

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    You don't believe That shooting at our fighters in the no-fly zone is cause for military intervention?

    Iraq agreed to disarm to a degree and other restrictions that they promptly refused to adhere to after the invaded Kuwait (aaaargh!) The UN putzed around and whined about it for 10 YEARS! Screw the UN.
  15. Anidem

    Anidem Banned

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    List the countries on the security council.
  16. Draconis

    Draconis IncGamers Member

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    The no-fly-zone of dubious legality that was never anything to do with the UN?
  17. Plum

    Plum IncGamers Member

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    Of the permanent members, the relevant ones would be France and Britain. Britain's still its own country, and its ties to continental Europe aren't nearly as deep as France. And no matter how you look at it, the permanents are the world's influential powerhouses at the moment.

    I should add that the UN goes way beyond the Security Council. Mindblowing? It shouldn't be.

    On the no-fly zones, it wasn't a part of the actual post-war stipulations anyways.
  18. axeil

    axeil IncGamers Member

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    There are other ways to get things done without going through the security council. It can be much more difficult but it CAN be done. If the General Assembly or a social/econ. group makes a recommendation with a staggering favorable vote and sends it to the security council they usually will vote with the previous resolution due to its popularity in other countries.

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