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Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

Discussion in 'Demon Hunter' started by Sulle, Mar 2, 2012. | Replies: 59 | Views: 19378

  1. Sulle

    Sulle IncGamers Member

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    Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    If I am not wrong, the demon hunter´s hungering arrow(using the 55% pierce rune) actually burst more dmg than several spenders, which makes the dmg ratio between the two out of balance.

    HA does 115% * (1 + 0.55 / (1-0.55))= 255,556 or ca. 256% weapon dmg on average, which is actually quite a lot compared to say rapid fire´s 228% weapon dmg or even unruned impale 250% (although it does have a lot of utility and does more dmg with some of the runes runes).

    I really hope blizzard will buff rapid fire a bit more to even the dmg ratio between the HA, since it´s a hatred spender and thus should do more dmg, because otherwise nobody will use RF as a spender which sucks as I personally really like the skill.
  2. Hokuto no Ken

    Hokuto no Ken IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    i think they should just move hungering arrow to a spender
  3. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    Rapid fire can still do more damage with a rune effect, for example the 40% pierce chance looks nice (although these arrows are not guided of course). I think they just need to nerf hungering arrow slightly, or more accurately, they need to nerf the pierce chance, especially on the piercing rune. That rune alone upjumps the damage from 1.15*(1/0.65) =~ 177% to 1.15*(1/0.45) =~ 256%! Considering bola shot does 130% plus minor aoe unruned, 177% is a bit high as well. So I'd suggest dropping the unruned pierce chance to 25%, meaning 153% average damage, and the runed pierce chance to 45%, meaning 210% average damage.

    I would hate to lose hungering arrow as a hatred generator since eveasive fire, grenades, and spike trap are more situational skills, which leaves only entangling shot and bola shot to choose from.
  4. Hokuto no Ken

    Hokuto no Ken IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    they could easily replace hungering arrow with elemental arrow as a generator, just with minor tweaking.
  5. reflexii

    reflexii IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    I would much rather use nerfed Hungering Arrow as a generator than Elemental Arrow. Just saying.
  6. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    Actually elemental arrow would be a fun hatred generator, with all that aoe. However, bola shot already does aoe, and I'd never use bola shot if elemental arrow was available. Also, making it a generator would make elemental arrow even weaker, which makes all of those special effects feel wrong somehow. I like how they toned down hungering arrow's effects to make it more in line with what a lower damage attack should look like.
  7. yovargas

    yovargas IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    As discussed elsewhere, this doesn't seem to be true in practice, in the game. Also, you're comparing runed with unruned which isn't really fair.
  8. Kelrist

    Kelrist IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    Time needs to be factored into the equation as well. Hungering arrow has what feels to be about a 1/2 to 1 full second pause inbetween every shot where as Rapid Fire is continuous damage without stopping. Against the Skeleton King I typically drain my hatred using Rapid Fire and watch the boss' health drop steadily and then swap to Hungering Arrow since it fires much much slower which makes it deal less damage.

    Gauging just from experience, it feels like I get about 4-5 hits with Rapid Fire in the time it takes me to fire 1 hungering arrow.
  9. reflexii

    reflexii IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    Kelrist: No, time does not need to be factored in, given that ONE pierce runed hungering arrow deals that 256% weapon damage on average. Btw, Rapid Fire shoots six arrows at the time it takes to shoot one hungering arrow. Comparing damages, it's the 228% weapon damage from Rapid Fire (one arrow deals 38% weapon damage) versus 256% damage per hungering arrow on average. Of course this is runed version of Hungering Arrow vs unruned of Rapid Fire, and Fire Support rune for Rapid Fire will almost always outdamage Hungering Arrow single target wise (up to X attack speed).

    What tops it off, is that Hungering Arrow regenerates hatred while doing more damage than most(almost all) single target spells that Demon Hunter has. Don't get me wrong, I love Hungering Arrow, but it's too powerful. Lowering damage to 80-90% weapon damage would be good choice imo. I wouldn't touch the piercing, as thats the only thing that makes this skill unique (and fun).
  10. yovargas

    yovargas IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    Again, in practice, RF is far stronger than HA. I don't know why, maybe the numbers displayed aren't accurate, but RF rocks much harder than HA.
  11. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    Piercing Arrow (renamed to Puncturing Arrow) now only has a 50% chance to pierce, down from 55%.

    The reason is that Puncturing Arrow is only better against one solitary target. When you have 2 targets and you want kill one of them as quickly as possible, then Rapid Fire is the better choice.

    Again, I don't think that PA should be nerfed. We're comparing a runed, generator skill against an unruned, spender skill and it's still not better in every circumstances, so I think PA is fine as it is.


  12. Sulle

    Sulle IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    OK in patch 14 Blizzard lowered pierce to 50%, so HA now does ca. 230% weapon dmg on average. I kinda expected this, but was ultimately hoping that they would buff rapid fire. Oh well at least now RF makes sense to have as a spender and 230% weapon dmg on avg is still a great deal.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3123246179#14
  13. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    Yeah hungering arrow: puncturing arrow will be awesome come release. Unfortunately it kind of overshadows bola shot: volatile explosives, since hungering arrow is also decent at aoe damage, so it seems like puncturing arrow would be better than volatile explosives more often than not.
  14. Kelrist

    Kelrist IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    I wasn't aware that each shot of Rapid Fire divided the overall damage, not sure where that is written but it seems accurate. I don't plan on running calculations but regardless of how sure you may be of your math I'll have to agree with yovargas and say RF dishes out more damage on the SK than HA. The little hp bar going down faster with RF proves it :p
  15. primEvil

    primEvil Banned

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    why would you guys want to nerf the skill just because it's good... It still doesn't take the place of the stronger hatred attacks since it's really only good against single targets. And mobs are far more frequent than single monsters so It's nice to have a generator skill that also fills the void of strong single target attacks. Look at the barb's Cleave... that is a much stronger generator skill than hungering arrow, and even that I hope they don't change.
  16. Cevilo

    Cevilo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    I disagree on this in a AOE setting Bola shot is made to be spread around. when you get good with it you target the weaker parts of the mob you can stick up to 3 monsters before the first bola shot goes off. If the first explosion kills the others with bola shot on them they will explode as well dealing up to 330% damage to surrounding monsters. this is in beta with about 1.5aps.. looking at some of the set gear and uniques before they were taken down, some of us came up with builds that gave up to 4aps. all most 3x the attack speed we can have in beta, so easily that could be 660%+ and the mobs later in game seem to be a lot bigger than what we've seen so far. I think Volatile explosives will be a Very viable option for any one who knows how to use it.

    getting so excited thinking of all the viable options. we may actually see variety in this game O.O


  17. reflexii

    reflexii IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    Cevilo: If you bolashot three enemies, and the first one explodes and kills the two bola-shotted ones, the explosions do NOT go off. Had to test it myself, because this has always been like I explained, and apparently still is (according to testing).
  18. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    Comparing runed to unruned is absolutely pointless. It's like saying weapon x with enchant is better than weapon x+1 without enchant.

    Rapid fire also get's the added benefit of on-hit effects. It's shouldn't be unclear which one has the higher damage potential.
  19. Cevilo

    Cevilo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF-NTmGP0sY&feature=youtu.be


    this is a vid I just made of me using volatile shot. notice how when the initial bola shot explodes, it kills the zombie causing it to explode pretty much the exact same time as the first one (Leaving me to believe damage is taken into consideration before the graphic is shown) also notice that there are 2 craters in the ground from each explosion, meaning it DOSE go off. in other circumstances, say neither monster was killed there would have been more of a delay before the second Bola shot went off.


    if any of you are wondering how I have access to Volatile shot (Or strafe for that matter) in patch 14, since there was no wipe any skills left on a character say on them, and are able to use until you replace them with another skill, in that case you no longer can use it.
  20. Cevilo

    Cevilo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hungering arrow does more dmg than rapid fire!

    nm after looking through the damage and numbers I see that it only hits 1 time, but I believe that the other explosions will make the radius bigger for any monsters not caught in the initial blast.

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