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How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless? <

Discussion in 'Witch Doctor' started by z00t, Apr 25, 2012. | Replies: 25 | Views: 3711

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o_0?

  1. Pets!

    26 vote(s)
    49.1%
  2. Petless!

    17 vote(s)
    32.1%
  3. I dunno / I'll alternate often between the two

    10 vote(s)
    18.9%
  1. z00t

    z00t IncGamers Member

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    How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    I plan on playing the WD without pets, and I know that there are other petless WD enthusiasts here.

    Of course, it's not like I'm NEVER going to use pets, but 'petless' is currently my preferred playsytle. I'm just curious to see how many people here feel similarly, so vote away! :3

    EDIT: For clarification, I only count the following as pets: Zombie Dogs, Gargantuans, and Fetishes summoned by Fetish Sycophants. They are the only real pets which last indefinitely, only leaving when they are killed.

    Other skills, like Toad of Hugeness are, to me, just spells with a creature aesthetic. Toad of Hugeness isn't much different from Plague of Toads - it's a creature-themed spell which you or the enemy can't actually interact with.

    Of course, I know everyone has different 'tolerance levels' as to what they may consider a 'pet' skill - let me know how YOU guys feel on the matter. I'm curious to hear different perspectives on what people consider to be 'pet' skills.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  2. pcguy

    pcguy IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    We aren't sure which spells qualify as pets, yet.

    As far as I know, we only have three different pet spells right now:
    Zombie Dogs, Gargantuan, and Fetish Army

    Other spells which may be classified as pets:
    Spider Queen, Toad of Hugeness, Irradiating Slime (Lob Blob Bomb), and Creepers.

    Edit: Removed Hex in response to z00t's comments
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  3. Santosvella

    Santosvella IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    Petless forever.

    For as long as I can remember the Evil/Dark/Necro/Warlock Caster archetype has always been the one I'm deeply attracted to in any game where it exists (and if not, I'll do everything in my power to shoehorn another class type into looking as close as possible to my favorite archetype :) ) but I always hated Summoner classes, save for the occasionnal lone Golem or beefy temp-summon here and there.
  4. z00t

    z00t IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    I personally consider only Zombie Dogs, Gargantuans, and Fetishes summoned by Fetish Sycophants (presumably they last indefinitely) pets. Fetish Army doesn't count - to me, it's like Call of the Ancients. You don't really think of the Ancients as pets, even though they can be killed. I think summons need to last at LEAST a certain amount of time to count as true pets. 45 seconds from Fetish Army is too short, I think. Yeah, it's not a hard-and-fast rule - this is how I've felt subconsciously on the matter.

    I say 'subconciously' because to me, the distinction is so natural that I didn't even consider the possibilty (until you brought it up) that other people may consider other skills to be 'pets' as well.

    As far as I'm concerned, everything else is just a regular spell with a creature aesthetic. Not a real pet. To me, Toad of Hugeness is no different from casting Plague of Toads. It's not something which the enemy can really interact with. Same with Spider Queen.

    Creepers is a possibility, but I suspect they don't last permanently.

    To me, spells like Hex are just a spell with a creature aesthetic, not an 'actual' creature. How come people consider Hex a pet but not Locust Swarm for example? Locust Swarm is also a creature-aesthetic spell, and does its thing for a few seconds before disappearing. To me, the distinction of what is a pet and what is not is very clear.

    I can kinda understand if people consider spells with a 'creature aesthetic' to count as pets, though. Some people may be even more of a purist than I am, and I know there are different levels of tolerances. For a very long time, I wasn't fond of Hex because I thought it 'felt' like a Summon. But in practice, it felt like I was just throwing out another spell. Since then, I've reached the way of thinking I have now about what does and does not count as a pet. Of all the beta skills (including Hex back when it was in), only when I use Zombie Dogs do I feel like I'm using a pet.


    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  5. WD pimpin summons

    WD pimpin summons IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    I'm going to be using only pets!

    And if I can't do that, then damn this game.
  6. pcguy

    pcguy IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    A pet is something that is considered an Ally by the game. Allies can be damaged and buffed. I am quite confident that any version of Fetishes can be buffed. The video footage shows that they can be damaged and can be the focus of enemy attacks, and thus can probably also be healed and buffed.

    Allies usually have life bars and also have A.I. which causes them to attack autonomously.

    Hex has A.I.
    - Hex does not have a life bar.
    - Hex cannot be targetted by attacks, and thus cannot be buffed

    You are correct about that one, and I will remove it from the list.

    Similarly, Corpse Spiders have A.I. but do not have life bars, so they are not on the list.

    Exception: Is Leah considered an ally?
    Yes. She does not have a life bar because she is an essential NPC.

    There is a chance that Spider Queen and Toad of Hugeness may still be allies, though. We have no proof that they are not susceptible to damage.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  7. z00t

    z00t IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    Is that actually an official definition? :p That anything that can be damaged and buffed is considered an 'Ally'?

    In any case, the standards I described are my own - I don't claim them to be a global one. It's how I've always perceived what is a pet and is not, and still do.

    As for Spider Queen and Toad of Hugeness, no, we don't know for a fact that they can be interacted with, but going by what we've seen, it really doesn't look like they can be interacted with. I'd even bet on it...if I was a betting man :p.
  8. pcguy

    pcguy IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    The Definition of Ally

    The official description for Big Bad Voodoo:
    Conjure a Fetish that begins a ritual dance that increases the attack speed and movement speed of all nearby allies by 20% for 20 seconds.

    Consider the following:
    Big Bad Voodoo applies to anything considered an ally.

    IF
    It is affected by Big Bad Voodoo
    THEN
    It is an ally.

    Will Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan be affected by Big Bad Voodoo? Almost certainly.

    IF
    Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan are affected by Big Bad Voodoo
    THEN
    Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan are allies.

    The Definition of Pet

    The official description of Fierce Loyalty:
    All your pets get 100% of the benefit of your Thorns and Life regeneration items.

    Consider the following:
    Fierce Loyalty specifies "your pets" in the description.

    IF
    It is affected by Fierce Loyalty
    THEN
    It is a pet.

    Will Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan be affected by Fierce Loyalty? Almost certainly.

    IF
    Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan are affected by Fierce Loyalty
    THEN
    Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan are pets.

    How This Applies to other Spells

    Fetishes are most likely going to be considered pets, regardless of their duration.

    It has been seen in videos that they take damage.
    If it is summoned by the player and it takes damage, it probably has a life bar. If it has a life bar, then it can regenerate life. If it can regenerate life, there is a good chance the Fierce Loyalty passive skill applies to it.
    So... if something can take damage, and it has been summoned by the Player Character, it must be a pet.


    Last edited: May 3, 2012
  9. z00t

    z00t IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    Oh I see, yeah that makes sense.

    I guess that for me, an 'ally' is different from a 'pet'. To me, something as transcient as the Ancients from Call of the Ancients don't last long enough to 'feel' like a pet. They have transcience built into them, and so do the Fetishes from Fetish Army. They just feel like a powerful, temporary spell ala Big Bad Voodoo.

    Zombie Dogs, Gargantuans, and Fetishes created by Fetish Sycophants last indefinitely, as far as I'm aware, and so are the only true pets in my eyes. By my definition, Wrathful Protector for the Gargantuan wouldn't count as a pet.

    I gotta say though, I'm still debating with myself if I should count Fetish Army as a pet or not. 45 seconds isn't very long, but is it long enough? :p

    In any case, I know everyone's got different 'tolerence levels'. Not too long ago, I considered Hex to be close enough to a Summon that I wasn't too hot on it.
  10. WD pimpin summons

    WD pimpin summons IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    Summoning philosophy in this thread.
  11. z00t

    z00t IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    That's an interesting way to look at it, I just have a different definition of Pets :p.

    To me, every Summonable Pet is an Ally, but not every Summonable Ally is a Pet.

    Your definition is more precise, though. Mine is based more on flavour. For instance - how long does a Summonable Ally need to last before I count it as a Pet? I don't think I can come up with a duration off the top of my head.


  12. Tryzx

    Tryzx IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    They only last 60 seconds. Sorry :p

    As for what I consider as pets: Zombie Dogs and Gargantua. The rest are spells for me.


  13. z00t

    z00t IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    Oh yeah, it says so right on the tooltip. Huurrrr, thats what I get for talking off the top of my head.

    Looks like most of the guys here prefer playing with pets from the looks of things so far, which is not entirely unexpected :p.
  14. sgtTenor

    sgtTenor IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    Why not both? One of the things I really liked about D2 is that I could make several different variations of each class and stick with it. As much as I like experimentation, I would like to stick to a certain build rather than change it from time to time.

    As it is I don't see the WD as a true pet class like the Necromancer was but, They do have Zombie dogs (which seem underwhelming in beta) and Gargantuan. you could have both or either one. Still it's nothing like the necro where you can have golems, skeliies, and mage skellies. Too much fun.

    For pet WD http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#hcSPYT!eXd!cZaccY

    For caster WD http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#hedZXi!XfW!cbYYaY

    These are just ideas of course. I haven't delved too much in how viable these would be. As it is there are so many combinations to try out. So I guess I'll experiment with both WD's in tandem as I don't want to rush to max level so fast. I'll probably do the same for all the other classes have 2 different characters per class.
  15. Greymouse

    Greymouse IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    yeah, i'm thinking both too.

    conceptually i'd love the WD to be a pet class, because i love playing those. but with easy respecs, a full on DOT + CC based version (with adjoining gear on reserve) is just too tempting to ignore for team play.



  16. Vivv

    Vivv IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    Thinking of going with pets at first to see how they do. Other then the sk the dogs are not bad at lasting. Been playing the beta since Oct. and i remember when the dogs could not die and i would kill the sk with darts only right as he was down the stairs. Now since they changed the dmg its been nice. But the pet less wd is also good. When you can rune graps and you have leaping spiders most things do not make it to me. Toss in soul harvest and bats, pet less wd more then hold there own. With me I will be trying everything up till 30 or so just to get a feel for all the skills. I do know at 19 i will be running spiders with queen rune, dogs, and gargantuan. I think after playing with all of that i will know if i want to go pet less or not.
  17. WDfromBg

    WDfromBg IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    OMG! In the past most people wanted to use pets, now it becomes modern not to use pets. ( Strange!
    Blow up zombie dogs, people! It is the sweetest skill in the game D
  18. Cisgo

    Cisgo IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    I think pets should be fun, I just hope they can stay upright for a few hits at inferno level. I plan on trying to support them in my build by damage reduction passives and trying to stack thorns to make up for thier low damage output:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#aeYZiT!Zcg!acaaaY
  19. sgtTenor

    sgtTenor IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?


    Yeah sacrifice looks cool but it's one of those risk reward types of skills. Zombie dogs cool-down takes far to long to have sacrifice really be useful. 60 seconds is far to long to be in tandem with sacrifice. Not sure why the cool-down is so long for a summon.

    Interesting build but I wonder how spider queen works? Is it complete summon or something like fetish army where it lasts 20 seconds or so. Interestingly enough you have 3 skills that are pets with 3 skill slots that are useful. That could work especially with the amount of pets on the screen. Will have to test that out as well.

    2 weeks is still so far away.


  20. Kebel

    Kebel IncGamers Member

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    Re: How would you like to play your WD - With Pets or Petless?

    Petless. Dogs die anyway and having everything centered to make them useful with sacrifce and all other supporting skills like boogie man seems too much.

    I'm personally planning to use a build centered around Grave Injustice and Vision Quest passives to spam 2 secondary skills as damage instead. Something like http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ceXdUR!ZTU!YbbYaZ

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