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How to specialize in traps

Discussion in 'Demon Hunter' started by Elfik, Feb 29, 2012. | Replies: 22 | Views: 4379

  1. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    How to specialize in traps

    Preamble

    Looking at the new skill videos and some beta videos, I really like the new graphic for hungering arrow, as well as the graphics for caltrops and spike trap. So I wanted to explore the possibilities of a trapper DH, but not restricted only to traps.

    Active Trap skills

    1) Caltrops
    Once sprung, it slows enemies within 12 yards by 60% for 6 seconds.
    -costs 8 discipline

    Rune choices: I think jagged spikes is the best for a trapper DH to do as much damage as possible, but reducing the discipline cost might be necessary depending on the build.

    Does anyone know what the limit is on how many caltrops can be in play at once?

    2) Spike Trap
    Once sprung, it deals 135% weapon damage to enemies within 8 yards. Limit of 3.
    -generates 4 hatred

    Rune choices: Increasing the damage looks nice but "scatter" allowing all three to placed at once seems like the best

    3) Sentry
    It's a turret which lasts 20s and fires for 20% weapon damage (per second?).
    -costs 10 discipline

    Rune choices: runes can increase the damage, or rreduce damage done by enemies. Reducing damage done by enemies is a good choice I'd say.

    Passive Trap Skills

    1) Custom engineering
    traps + marked for death last twice as long.

    2)Numbing Traps
    traps - sentry, + fan of knives reduce enemy damage by 25% for 3s

    Trapper DH potential builds

    All trapper builds use spike trap, caltrops, and sentry

    A: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#TYiaRh!UVW!cbcabZ

    This one uses the suppression fire + preparation combo for great resource generation and aoe damage. Hungering arrow for single targets and to generate extra hatred. Hot pursuit will be active almost all the time, and may be worth it considering the trapper DH has to run around and set traps. Also, since this build has no escape skill, hot pursuit makes sense.

    B: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#TYifPX!UVg!cbcYaZ

    This one uses stun grenades and stun cluster arrow to rack up extra hatred and extra damage, without taking too much in return. An alternate hatred generator is given in the form of evasive fire, which conveniently allows the DH to retreat and set more traps.

    C: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#TYiaZj!UVc!cbcaZc

    This trapper DH uses smoke screen with choking gas to make a clean escape after laying traps, and rack up even more damage while doing so. Impale is there as a hatred spender that can deal with single targets quite well, and hungering arrow to generate more hatred and as a spammable attack.

    Other options

    -Marked for death can function as an aoe trap given a certain rune, but I think too many traps is a bad thing. The trapper DH still needs spammable attacks.

    -Fan of knives works with numbing traps and is an overall good skill, although it can be hard to fit it in.

    -entangling shot is a good way to generate hatred while slowing enemies missed by caltrops, but it a trapper would rather just lay more caltrops, making entangling shot redundant.

    -vault is a good escape skill that can be used instead of smoke screen or evasive fire. However, since enemies are slowed by caltrops, the speed of vault isn't really needed, and smoke screen is better. Evasive fire is nice because the discipline cost is low, and it does damage, and generates hatred. Evasive fire also only backflips a short distance, so it works better in conjunction with grenades.

    -passive skill choice is very difficult. cull of the weak makes sense along with caltrops. custom engineering makes traps last twice as long, but may not necessary. It would be very helpful in prolonged fights of course. Numbing traps reducing damage of snared enemies seems like a must-take for surviving inferno with a trapper build. Many other passives could be argued however.

    -other skills could probably be fit into trapper builds quite easily as well, so I won't discuss them all

    So, what would your trapper DH look like?

    PS the builds do not reflect the button assignments that I would use. I would have a spammable attack on the right mouse button most likely. Also, the builds aren't unlocked until the late 50s under the current system...
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2012
  2. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    A few general observations:

    I believe their number is only limited by your Discipline.

    Actually, Scatter may be the worst choice for a build that relies on traps for two reasons:

    1) You can't spread your traps around and with their 8 yard range that will severely limit how many enemies you can damage with them.

    2) Since Spike Trap doesn't have a cooldown, nothing prevents you from planting 3 in a quick succession anyway. For this reason I think Scatter is completely useless, unless I missed something.

    For a trapper, I would go with Bandolier. It allows you to do the most concentrated damage and also spread 6 traps around if the need arises.

    Personally, I would rather turn Sentry into a killing machine by going with the Spitfire Turret rune and Ballistics passive. This way the Sentry will shoot rocket at multiple enemies for 80% percent damage not counting anything else, while retaining its basic attack.

    I can already see this becoming a must have combo for many builds.

    There's no need for it because as things stand right now you can just spam Spike Trap to your heart's content and regen your Hatred. Or at least other generators, like Hungering Arrow work like this.

    Spike Trap can be placed at range, but I don't know how far is its maximum range. Caltrops however can only placed where you stand.

    My build would look something like this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#RTYghi!Uch!babbaa

    I would use Caltrops and Fan of Knives for defense and spam Spike Traps preemptively whenever I expect enemies. Suppression Fire is there for more AoE potential and Discipline regen. Sentry should be dropped in huge mobs. I choose Preparation for situations, where I mess up my Discipline management and run out. Invigoration is great, because every time you use Preparation you can use a "free" Sentry.


    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  3. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    Well I see what you're saying about scatter. My thought with that was that I would be spending my time laying caltrops, and scatter saves time on the spike traps. Of course, there's no need to go ocd on the caltrops since in most cases one or two should be enough followed by spikes laying. Of the other rune options, I would definitely pick bandolier for it's versatility. It probably would play better than scatter, but if caltrops become really useful than scatter is an option to save time. Long fuse is another option for increased damage, that might be better than bandolier if the DH has enough other things to do.

    Also, even with bandolier, it can be hard to spam spike trap to generate hatred, and it's nice to have a hatred generator that actually does damage right away for better killing efficiency, but I suppose bandolier spike trap could generate adequate hatred. I think hungering arrow and evasive fire are worth considering for any trapper build though.

    I also considered preparation used to gain discipline. I also like the rune where discipline is gained slowly over time, as its effects are more long lasting. Sentry only costs 10 discipline per encounter (I'm assuming you can only have one up at a time, like hydra), but if you use caltrops as well as sentry, that's quite a drain on discipline. One solution is suppression fire, another is preparation with a cooldown. I prefer suppression fire, since it doesn't have a cooldown. I don't think it's necessary to use the combo of suppresion fire + preparation: punishment. Punishment negates the discipline generation of suppression fire but it does generate a lot of hatred.

    An option I would consider instead or suppression fire or preparation is to rune caltrops for decreased discipline cost, and take the passive that decreases discipline cost of all skill. So caltrops would only cost 6 discipline, and sentry, 8 discipline. Discipline will always be a factor worth considering for trappers I think, especially those who also take smoke screen/evasive fire/vault.

    As for the build you mentioned, I would personally worry about hatred generation much more than discipline generation, since suppresion fire can generate enough to fuel sentry at least, and passive regen should cover your caltrops needs. But it takes ~3 spike traps (+some passive regen) to fuel 1 multishot. To get the most out of suppresion fire, you're going to want a spammable hatred generator. I would rather remove preparation or fan of knives in favour of hungering arrow.

    Also on the topic of sentry with ballistics passive. It could work well, but it depends on useful the other passives are. Custom engineering and numbing traps are meant for trapper builds, but I'm not so certain on their usefulness actually. Which leaves a lot of room for something like ballistics, but other passives are also really good fit with trapper builds, namely, cull the weak, and perfectionist.

    Another skill I didn't mention before I think would work really well on a trapper buil is companion. A build with companion: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#gTYhQi!Wcf!bbbYcb

    If the companion AI is good enough this build could be pretty fun. No bow attacks, only spike trap, sentry, companion, and caltrops to deal constant damage, with a fan of knives thrown in every 10 seconds.

    So far for trapper builds we have:

    1) caltrops runed with jagged spikes
    -carved stakes is an option if you're short on discipline

    2) spike trap runed with bandolier
    -long fuse is an option for more damage
    -scatter might be useful to save time?

    3) sentry rune with spitfire turret (works well with ballistics passive)
    -chains of torment is another good option for damage-dealing
    -guardian turret is an option for reducing damage taken by the party (good for co-op)

    4) a discipline generating skill to fuel trap-laying*
    A. Multishot runed with suppression fire
    B. Preparation runed with invigoration, focused mind, or backup plan

    5) & 6) any 2 of the following

    -a secondary hatred generator: hungering arrow/evasive fire/preparation runed with "punishment"
    -a hatred spender: fan of knives/any other hatred spender
    -another discipline generator: suppression fire/preparation
    -an escape skill: smoke screen/vault/evasive fire
    -another discipline spender: marked for death/companion

    *under the right conditions this may not be necessary (eg. for builds that focus more on hatred generation and hatred spending, these would be closer to conventional builds)
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  4. reflexii

    reflexii IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    I've had this idea of a semi-trapper for a bit now: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aeTYVU!YcT!aaZaaa

    it has a great slow via caltrops and two "plantable" skills to enemies: Mark of the death - Contagion and Spike Trap - Sticky Trap. I think mobs would be decimated with 3 Sticky bombs + 3 motd's on same targets. After they die, they release total of 588% weapon damage over 8 yards and spread the motd for 6 more mobs. if this aint enough, we have twin chakrams to kill the first targets/rest surviving.

    Vault is runed as it is because we dont have a discipline regenerator and we are spamming caltrops and motd quite a bit. Hungering arrow is for the bosses because frankly i like that skill more than other single-target spells of DH :)
  5. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    Chakram is an interesting choice for an aoe attack. It costs less hatred than multishot, but doesn't have discipline generation.

    Sticky trap is an interesting rune and has a nice synergy with marked for death. Not a conventional trapper but it sounds like it would be effective in combination with hungering arrow/chakram to kill the initial targets.

    Vault with acrobatics is nice for an escape skill, although compared to other skills it seems underwhelming to me. Also, when using both caltrops and marked for death, why not take the perfectionist passive to reduce discipline costs? As to caltrops, increasing the slow from 60% to 80% is worth less than increasing the damage from 0% to 45% in my opinion. You're going to have to kill the sticky trap targets with skill damage, and every little bit helps.
  6. reflexii

    reflexii IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    Yeah, I chose chakram for this instead of multishot, even though I usually have built skills around multishot. The basic reasoning for this is that I've totally fallen in love with chakram after playing the beta. I don't need that much discipline regeneration either to be honest.

    Sticky trap / marked for death certainly looks juicy right now without further testing, perfect synergy imo. We can't really test those skills though, so they could be a complete flop too :p

    Yes, these new Vault runes are pretty underwhelming. I chose it for my escape mechanism because it doesn't cost any discipline, so I don't need any discipline regenerating skills. Even though I have both caltrops and marked for death, I don't think I'll have that many discipline problems using only those two. If I do however, I can always change Sharpshooter passive for Night Stalker to get extra discipline from crits (chakram and other aoe skills generate a LOT of it, as crits are calculated per monster and not per cast. You can have like five crits on one cast if you're lucky.)

    I'm still questioning the caltrops rune choice, as I don't really know what is the best. I chose the better slow for couple of reasons: 1) I'm not really even trying to use it aggressively, its basically there to stop the probable charging/extra fast/etc monsters from inferno to catching up to my DH 2) If they can't catch my DH, I get the constant 20% increased damage from Steady Aim 3) I have a ton of damage for mobs already, and I think extra slow vs damage against bosses is an easy choice to make. In my opinion the increased slow rune, the 2 second rooting rune and 10% crit chance rune are all better than extra damage rune at this point. Of course it's just an opinion and I'm ok if you guys disagree with it, thats just how I see it :)
  7. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    Well the thing with immobilizing the enemy for 2 seconds is, does it still slow the enemies for 4 seconds afterwards (6s total) or not? I'm guessing not, and in that case, 2 second immobilization is underwhelming, considering the barb's ground stomp stuns for 4s and the wizard's frost nova for 3s (although these are cooldown skills). 2s is really short, but if you lay several in a row I guess it could be worth it. I see what you're saying about bosses. With your build, sticky trap will be useless if there are no minions to kill, and the trapper DH in general doesn't have much in the way of healing or life leech, and must depend on snaring the enemy with caltrops.

    I do like the ability of caltrops to deal damage, it's my favorite at this point. Bait the trap is interesting but the DH has to be near a caltrops for it to activate. Not that hard to do I guess. I could see myself choosing any of the 5 runes actually. Of course once we can actually test these things the decision should become a little easier.

    It's good that you feel confident you won't need to have a discipline generator, because I feel it's potentially the main weakness/limitation of trapper builds.
  8. reflexii

    reflexii IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    I think the immobilize trap works exactly like the non-runed version, plus the root. Can't be sure of that though, tooltips aren't exactly the clearest thing right now. Oh well, the answer will be revealed on release date at latest :). It's true though that if it's only 2 seconds of root and nothing more, its worth nothing.

    It's good though that people have different opinions about which rune is the best for skill X, will produce more builds and the feared "every build is the same in diablo 3 -syndrome" isn't going to happen that often.

    I've modified my build just a bit: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aeTYVU!YeX!aaZcaa

    Changed the passives around a bit to have Archery and Night Stalker in there. Changed the rune for caltrops as well. The basic idea with these changes are to get more critical chance (Archery 10% with dual crossbows, caltrops 10%, 5% natural crit chance should bring me up to 20-25%) -> regenerate more discipline with Night Stalker -> spam more of 60% slow caltrops to make up for the slow amount loss. It'd be possible to change Vault rune too if Night Stalker seems to produce "too much" discipline.
  9. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    Given your reports on critical mass procs, night stalker would pair extremely well with chakram for aoe damage and high chances for crit procs. I would almost want to suggest bola shot as a better crit generator than hungering arrow (especially since the pierce chance may end up getting nerfed), but who nows how it will work at this point.

    I would suggest smoke screen "breathe deep" if you do wind up with extra discipline to spend. You turn invisible for 2, regenerating 20 hatred per second while doing so, fueling your chakrams, which hopefully generate some crits. It probably won't pay itself back though.
  10. jon

    jon IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#TRYiXh!heX!YbcaYZ

    Spike Trap with scatter-> I understand your thinking with bandolier, but putting 6 traps down takes time and replacing them takes time. Time you could be using other abilities that will net more damage. Spike Trap really onyl has 2 useful runes from my view, Scatter and lightning rod. Scatter will stack all three traps together causing 405% damage to 8 yard raduis which I believe will be a killing blow even in inferno, place it inside a coltrops and who knows how many mobs will be stacked up. Lightning Rod does 135% damage to 4 enemies garenteed or 405% damage to 4 enemies garenteed if you stack 3 traps on top of each other. I feel being able to put down 3 traps at once allows you do focus on where the real trapper damage is, sentry spam! You can always just spam spike trap to regen hatred.


    Multishot with Suppression fire-> Hits all enemies in the area and regens 1 disc per mob hit and on top of that any crits regen 2 disc with night stalker. This in and of its self will be the main disc generator allowing you to spam sentry's.

    Caltrops with bait the trap-> 60% slow and 10% chance to crit while standing in coltrops. Coltrops is your home, It is your defense, it is your sweet spot, you should be standing in a coltrops at all times. 10% chance to crit goes with Nightstalker for more sentry spam.

    Sentry with spit fire turret-> This is your bread and butter trap. With the added rockets (plural) every 1.5 secs, and balistics this trap will be pumping out 80% damage per rocket, and an additional 20% damage per arrow it fires for 20 secs. Remember crits=2 disc so it might even be possible for a sentry to pay for itself disc wise.

    Preparation with punishment-> Your going to regen so much disc, that when you have extra you can convert it to hatred. With multishot cover fire and night stalker it is possible that 2 multishot could regen a full disc bar if theres enough mobs/crits. Example: 10 tagets x 2 multishots=20 disc 10 mobs hit with 2 multishots= 20 chances to crit. With a 25% chance to crit you'd crit 5 times wielding another 10 disc. 20disc+10disc= 30 disc(a full disc bar) at the cost of only 30 hatred. This allows a rotation that basically could allow hatred to refill disc, and disc to refil hatred in unlimited qauntities.

    Evasive fire with Displace-> The demon hunter needs better defensive skills, your chioces are run run or run it seems. Vault is 10 disc, smoke screen is 15 disc, shadow power is a joke with a 3 sec duration for 20 disc, and fan of knives has a cool down. For 4 disc evasive fire cannot be beat for a 30 yard vault.

    Ballistics---> makes sentry hit alot harder

    Archery-----> 10% crit with 1 handed crossbows to help feed night stalker.(With 5% base crit from gear, 10% from Archery, and 10% from standign in Caltrops you should have a 25% chance to crit, That should be more than enough to fuel Night stalker with multishot.)

    Night stalker------>2 Disc regen on crits

    This build is set up around the trap sentry, learn it, love it, spam it.
    Set up your coltrops, spike traps, and sentry
    Spam multishot till disc is full then throw out another sentry or prep when your hatred gets low
    If a mob gets to you evasive fire to backflip away and reset up.
  11. reflexii

    reflexii IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    Elfik: Yeah, I think both chakram and multishot are prime skills for regenerating with Night Stalker on crowded places (who knows, bola shot, grenades or even cluster arrow might work very well!), but I dislike bola shot as discipline generator in general. The discipline regenerate rune-effect is pretty useless for crowds in my opinion. It's going to regenerate discipline only when the bola explodes, and not when you shoot it. Say you shoot 3 bola shots to different enemies, but the first bola shot destroys both the latter enemies, you have only one chance to get discipline there (as the two others don't explode when targets die). If you meant just using bola shot to regen with Night stalker, I dislike the idea. I'm not planning to use hungering arrow too much for the crowds, I have tons of abilities on those situations :p

    Yep, smoke screen will be a good choice if I get enormous amounts of discipline (I'm afraid I don't, but who knows :p). Other choice would be on this case to change Vault to tumble perhaps and not changing anything else :)





    jon: I approve every build that uses Multishot/Suppression fire and Preparation/Punishment. Such a good combination between the two skills. I'm a bit worried though that your build doesn't have a reliable escape mechanism in form of vault or smoke screen. Yeah well, you have Evasive fire, but it will work only when enemies are NEAR you! Don't know about you, but I wouldn't want an inferno extra fast/extra strong etc pack next to me to use my escape mechanism at all, given that you most certainly get 1-2 shotted by those (I hope inferno really is that hard).

    Another thing I must bring up is the way you overestimate Night Stalker's discipline regeneration. It does not give you 2 discipline for every crit you make. It has a CHANCE to give you discipline every time you crit. This chance was around 10-20% for wizards passive that has a chance to reduce cooldowns by 1 second when critting and i assume it's somewhere around those numbers with Night Stalker as well.

    Lets upgrade that example of yours for a bit easier numbers:

    You shoot multishot four times to ten targets, lets assume all survive all four of them.
    = you regenerate 40 discipline
    If you have a 25% crit chance and night stalker, and we assume the percent for night stalker is around 10%.
    40 enemies hit = 10 critical hits on average.
    10 criticals * 0.10 = 1 discipline.

    With these numbers, every 40 enemies hit gives you ONE discipline on average. It's possible that the number is higher than 10% but it wont be even NEAR 100%, of that I'm sure.

    Have to ask something about sentry too. You guys have any clue if you even can put many sentries down at the same time, and not just one? I certainly don't, even though it would make sense to have many of them. I'm just suspicious as the skill itself doesn't say anything about that. I believe there has got to be at least some kind of a cap. Hopefully blizzard informs us about that skill before the game comes out :p
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  12. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    I have been assuming that only one sentry will be permitted at a time, similar to the wizard's hydra. I could be dead wrong about this. Seeing as sentry costs discipline, it won't ever be spammable, however if more than one are permitted, things like suppression fire and preparation to regen discipline, not to mention perfectionist and night slaker passives, would allow sentry abuse. It seems like an awful lot of work to turn sentry into a main offensive skill though. I always saw it as a kind of passive damage buff, even though it's not really buffing damage, it's dealing its own damage. Which is why I gravitate towards the defensive runes on it, especially the one that reduces incoming damage. As you say, and I agree, I hope inferno is really hard, making defensive skills useful (compared to the beta's situation, which is awful).
  13. jon

    jon IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    jon: I approve every build that uses Multishot/Suppression fire and Preparation/Punishment. Such a good combination between the two skills. I'm a bit worried though that your build doesn't have a reliable escape mechanism in form of vault or smoke screen. Yeah well, you have Evasive fire, but it will work only when enemies are NEAR you! Don't know about you, but I wouldn't want an inferno extra fast/extra strong etc pack next to me to use my escape mechanism at all, given that you most certainly get 1-2 shotted by those (I hope inferno really is that hard).

    Another thing I must bring up is the way you overestimate Night Stalker's discipline regeneration. It does not give you 2 discipline for every crit you make. It has a CHANCE to give you discipline every time you crit. This chance was around 10-20% for wizards passive that has a chance to reduce cooldowns by 1 second when critting and i assume it's somewhere around those numbers with Night Stalker as well.

    Lets upgrade that example of yours for a bit easier numbers:

    You shoot multishot four times to ten targets, lets assume all survive all four of them.
    = you regenerate 40 discipline
    If you have a 25% crit chance and night stalker, and we assume the percent for night stalker is around 10%.
    40 enemies hit = 10 critical hits on average.
    10 criticals * 0.10 = 1 discipline.

    With these numbers, every 40 enemies hit gives you ONE discipline on average. It's possible that the number is higher than 10% but it wont be even NEAR 100%, of that I'm sure.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You can't comapre night stalker to critical mass. +resource regen and -cooldown are two different things. If you wanted to make a comparison i'd use weapons mastery with mighty weapons, or prodigy.

    Lets look at your comparisom: 10critsx10%=2 disc, 10critsx20%=4 disc, 10critsx30%=6 disc, 40%=8 disc, 10critsx50%=10 disc, 10 critsx60%=12disc, 10critsx70%=14 disc, 10critsx80%=16 disc, 10critsx90%=18 disc, 10critsx100%=20 disc

    Using your comparison Night stalker even at 100% proc chance is half as effictive at disc regen then multishot with suppression fire. Anythign under 80% chance to proc night stalker make other options better to improve defense or damage.

    My build is very disc heavy, as such I chose a low cost defenisive skill (evasive fire), however if i find I am more than enough disc regen then I would chose vault with rattling roll.

    Um Hydra says specifically that you can only have one out at a time. Spike traps says specifically that you can only have 3/6 out at time. Sentry says nothing in regards to a limit to how many you can have out. Caltrops says nothing in regards to how many you can have out, and you can have as many as you can afford out at a time. I believe becuase sentry costs a type of resource that is very slow to regen, and is very limited in amount there is no limit to the amount you can have out at a time barring having the disc to burn.

    Consider the damage out put of a single sentry runed with balistics and spitfire turret. 80% rockets(plural, theres more than 1 rocket) damage every 1.5secs, and the 20% damage from it's regular attack. I believe realistically I could have upto 6 sentrys out at time without custom engineering. Thats 480% rocket damage per rocker every 1.5 secs, and 120%ish arrow damage if it fire 1 arrow a sec.

    Attack rotation using your example above->caltrops (-10 disc=20disc), spike traps, 2 sentry's (-20 disc=0disc), 3 multishots(-45 hatred) with suppression fire to regain full disc, caltrops(-10disc=20disc), 6 spike traps(24 hatred), 2 sentry's, 3 multishots to regain full disc (-45hatred=34 hatred),cast coltrops(-10 disc=20disc), 2 sentrys (-20 disc=0 disc), 6 spike traps(24 hatred), 3 multishots to regain full disc (-45 hatred=13 hatred), caltrops, 2 sentry's, 6 spike traps (24 + 13= 45 hatred becuase i havent counted any natural hatred regen), 3 multi shot to regain full disc(-45 hatred=0hatred), caltrops, preparation to regain all hatred.

    Any disc gained thru night stalker goes towards extra sentry's, might even just drop night stalker since multishot alone looks liek it will be able to sustain my disc and go with balistics, custom engineering, and perfectionist.

    I am pretty sure if there was a limit to the amount of sentry you can have out it would say so in the tooltip like hydra and spike traps.
  14. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    I am willing to believe that sentries are only limited by resource, but I'm not willing to believe in it completely, not with only Blizzard tooltips as a basis for speculation. So, you may be right, but I just don't know for sure.

    As for night stalker, I think reflexii made a mistake in that each proc actually generates 2 discipline, so you can double his results. But you can't compare night stalker with prodigy or weapons mastery because those skills are resource generation passive that occur when you perform a certain action, 100% of the time. While critical mass and night stalker do not proc every time you land a critical hit, and also, critical hits themselves are random. But you do have a point that if night stalker procced on only 10% of all critical hits, with the info we know, it would be grossly underpowered. However, it surely must proc for less than 50% of all critical hits, otherwise it would be simpler to let it generate 1 discipline for every critical hit. I would guess it would proc for ~25% of critical hits.
  15. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    I'm inclined to think that night stalker is normalized based on the weapon speed. I could be mistaken, but that would make different weapon types somewhat competitive choice.

    Anyhow every trapped build i have been exploring seems to run into discipline generation problems. Other thing to note is that it would seem that trapper builds will have way too long preparation time to be truly viable. Too much actions needed to reach the full damage potential.
  16. snurrfint

    snurrfint IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    This is my version, and its all discipline based.

    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#RTYjhi!UXf!bYbcYa

    The idea is to generate the most discipline possible to be able to spam sentry, caltrops and smoke screen as much as possible. I don't know if you are able to place more than one sentry simultaneously, but if that's not the case, I'll just use the extra discipline to spam more caltrops, and more smoke screens.

    Multi-shot is in only because of the discipline generation it can provide. I imagine you'll will shoot this a couple of times every time you'll don't have enough discipline to perform what ever you want to perform at a given moment.

    Spike trap is important for dealing with ranged stationary targets. Since you can't control the sentry to focus ranged units (random targets), and since caltrops is not ranged at all, it's indeed a very important skill.

    For preparation, I go with focused mind. This way I get even more discipline per use, and it doesn't matter when I pop it like with the other runes were you need to pop it when you're completely out of discipline to get the max out of it.

    Passives are chosen to lower discipline costs and higher discipline generation, and of course the mandatory 100% increase in duration.

    The style of play can be varied with this build. If you are up against a lot of fast moving enemies, you better use your discipline for smoke screen, rather than caltrops and sentry. My experience with caltrops in the beta is that the fastest enemies just run directly through the area of caltrops in a matter of a second or so. Therefor a smoke screen + multishot/spiketrap combo would work a lot better for fast enemies. For slow enemies however, CC:ing enemies around with caltrops + alot of sentries should be much more efficient.
  17. reflexii

    reflexii IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    snurrfint: loving the build, have had couple of ideas for the same-style build than that, should work pretty nicely! Also, Spike Trap is no longer 135% weapon damage, at least in the current beta the damage seems to be 270% weapon damage, so it should be very good skill to quickly do a lot of damage on a smallish area.
  18. snurrfint

    snurrfint IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    Yeah, it's pretty solid I think.

    I think the arming time and the small area of effect will make it pretty optimal for ranged targets, as they usually don't move around that much. Also the fact that the traps can be placed behind melee blockers is a huge plus. That's pretty much the same benefit you'll get from using firebomb over poison dart as a WD, that you don't have to kill the melee monsters first to hit the ranged characters behind them. If the dmg is indeed increased to 270% dmg they should also dire pretty quickly too i imagine. Hopefully, the range of the trap will be long enough for this purpose. It's hard to say from the skill video. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/active/spike-trap


  19. Sulle

    Sulle IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    wow 270% WD?! that´s crazy. I assume it´s a hatred spender now that the dmg has increased so much?

    anyway Snurrfint I really like the last trapper build you made, but perhaps I would change impale with RF(web shot), since it slows enemies by 80% for 1 sec, but you have the passive cull the weak, so it would be a nice syngery with it.


    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  20. snurrfint

    snurrfint IncGamers Member

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    Re: How to specialize in traps

    I don't use the passive Cull the Weak though I agree it is one of the best passives for a trapper build. I really want the fastest discipline regeneration possible. Or perhaps you meant one of my other DH builds?


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