Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

How far from MP1? (in regards to my Hellfire post)

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by PearlJamaholic, Dec 13, 2012. | Replies: 9 | Views: 1519

  1. PearlJamaholic

    PearlJamaholic IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    102
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/DevilPoup-1475/hero/20567015

    Obviously im lacking in areas seeing how i still have some non-lvl60 items. im playing self found only so much i can do about that. I'm pretty sure my dmg is low cause some of my other characters have higher dmg. sucks when your main finds better gear for your alts.... i think im good with life??? i rarely die, maybe once every 7-10 key runs if not more.

    like i said in the hellfire thread, i have no issues playing mp0, its almost becoming mind numbing but when i try mp1 it goes so slow and i die a lot. when i get to doing ubers i want to be able to face them with a mp lvl that gives me a fair chance of getting organs. so my next step is rolling through mp1. but not sure how far off my stats are from being able to make it through mp1.
  2. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    6,169
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    468
    I haven't looked at your profile yet, but you might also want to post a screenshot of your details panel. Then we can see things like resists and cirt chance easily.

    I'll have a look at it now.

    Edit: A few points, though keep in mind that I haven't played my WD much.

    1. You're not using any of the skills that Spirit Vessel aids, so you're missing out on half the effect. Soul Harvest can greatly increase your damage, so you might want to work it into your skills.

    2. Does Rain of Corpses only do damage with no slow effect? If so, then you have 4 damage dealing skills and your only defense is meat shields.

    3. I'd swap out one of the damage dealers (probably Rain of Corpses) and use Spirit Walk instead. You currently have no recourse if you get surrounded, which is how you're dying, I'd guess. Sure, Spirit Vessel revives you, but you probably die again shortly after anyway.

    4. On that note, how are you dying most of the time? Are you getting surrounded a lot? Edit: If you're dying due to ranged attacks, I'd look into whether Wall of Corpses blocks that. Maybe you could use a shield.

    5. All of you damage dealers are AoE. I'd use at least one that is single target so you can deal with elites faster.

    6. Focusing on passives, I'd drop Spirit Vessel (unless you choose to use one of the skills it aids) and only use Jungle Fortitude OR Zombie Handler. Tough minions are great, but they don't help much if you're dead. Use other passives that either give you additional defense, in the form of escape skills if possible, or increase your damage output.

    7. I notice you have a bit of life on hit. Have you looked at the Life on Hit proc coefficients for WDs? It may be that your skills don't return much life. You can google to find the values.

    8. Rain of Toads works great with LoH, from what I hear.

    9. Gear issues are tougher since you're working with what you find. I'm ~95% self found, but I also have about another 4k more elite kills than you, and I do use the GAH a bit. I can't really give any useful perspective on items.

    I hope some of that helped. :)
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  3. PearlJamaholic

    PearlJamaholic IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    102
    Ok l'll try to get the screencap up.

    1) I was using Spirit Vessel cause i died during Nightmare and it made boss fights much easier, since then it just kinda stayed, though i hardly need it for the extra life right now, and on MP1 it barely keeps me alive long enough to run away..

    2) yes it still has the slow down effect

    3) Spirit Vessel sorta has a Spirit Walk in it, i get the 2 second spirit realm walking thing.

    4) not really sure i just sorta get bogged down in fights cause it seems to go slow then next thing im swamped and everything is on cooldowns so im stuck.

    5) i kinda assumed firebomb covered this with a little added splash damage... at least thats how ive been playing it. i target specific creatures with it.

    6) might have to tinker here cause that may change my play style a lot reducing my meat shields.

    7) not really i sorta see life hit and life steal as a bonus and not something i focus on, should i be?

    8) would this replace firebomb?

    9) finding it is most of the fun for me. but the reason MP1 is an issue for me may be more skill selection the gear?

    helps a lot, having some one point out things you overlooked or havent focused on in awhile. a critical eye and retraining your own critical eye helps a ton.
  4. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    6,169
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    468
    3. I didn't know that. I've never actually used the skill.

    5. What I mean is that you could be using a different skill that does more damage over a smaller area or to a single target. Firebomb can be used that way, and my WD uses the same skill, but for you another skill with more damage on one target might be better.

    7. Yes. Healing is one of the most important things you can do to progress in higher MPs. Right now, my wizard has ~1400 life on hit. Life Steal and Life on Hit are what keep my barbarian alive.

    8. Yep. I think you should try that.

    9. I agree to some extent, but items are important for being able to handle higher MP. You'll get there, but it may take some time unless you're really lucky with drops.

    Be sure to let us know what you end up going with and what you think works best.
  5. Ivan E

    Ivan E IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    121
    Hey there.

    I'm completely self-found and can farm MP1 with some characters and up to MP3 with my WD. See my profile here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/StriderRemix-1675/hero/12990217

    Note that my WD actually beat Inferno in 1.0.4 so he's been in Inferno the longest and benefited the most from self-found.

    Look at my stats for my Wizard or DH -- those are probably more than you need in order to do MP1 with a class that doesn't get hit a lot. Your WD will need lower stats because with pets you should rarely get hit.

    I can answer any specific questions you have, but in general my advice is this:

    1) I don't know if you've just been unlucky with drops but you have barely any crit or crit damage gear. In general, I found that because crit and crit damage are very prevalent on weapons and jewelry (and bracers and gloves) it's easy to boost DPS with those. Crit and crit chance also scale super-well with Zombie Bears.

    2) Your followers (assuming you play solo) don't have skills that enable you very well. I always pick the more CCish skills -- they have great synergy with pets and allow you to avoid dying. The followers don't do very much damage, so I find utility more helpful than damage for them.

    3) I don't know whether the build on your profile is your current build for MP0 (which is easy for you) or your preferred build in general. I would say that if you're trying to survive in MP1 you need both pets and spirit walk at a minimum. Spirit Vessel is also incredibly awesome for survivability and also offense -- you can use it offensively to jump in, drop a soul harvest or a bunch of bears, and then drop out and use Healing Journey to regain health. The cooldown is short, so using it offensively is not a big deal. But if you want build suggestions, I am happy to reason out why I like the skills I do. (Don't look at my profile for skills -- I usually mess around with skills/gear before logging off so my skills are always wonky.)

    4) In general, I would say that you can probably do MP1 quite easily if you boost your DPS by 5k-6k, along with a build that has you play smart and work with it.

    5) Actually, I see from the discussion above that you do have questions about skills. I would suggest, to start --
    Splinters or Rain of Toads
    Zombie Bears or Acid Rain
    Leeching Beasts
    Humongoid or Restless Giant
    Jaunt or Healing Journey
    Your choice - Soul Harvest or Horrify are good choice here
    Passives: some combination of spirit vessel, jungle fortitude, pierce the veil, gruesome feast, or grave injustice, depending on how you play. Spiritual Attunement is also a good choice if you decide you like spamming bears.

    Let me know if you have any other questions!
  6. PearlJamaholic

    PearlJamaholic IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    102
    I dont want to completely change my WD skills, unless its not feasible to play higher MP with this kinda style.

    So i guess i'll switch out Grasp of the Dead with some suggested here and see what i find. Switch out one of the passive pet skills for???

    Item-wise Ill get some life life-steal/hit and try to bring up my DPS by 5k. Now does crit gear add into DPS, cause when i find some when item comparison pops up it always gives me less dmg so i pass on it. i figured it was part of that calculation so it never benefits me. View attachment 3881
  7. Ivan E

    Ivan E IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    121
    It's totally possible to use the skills you want -- the way D3 works is really flexible/inflexible such that if your gear is fine for the MP you're playing at, you can use almost any set of skills and it'll work well. But if your gear is low, then you really start relying on the "best" skills to help you. I think if you get your DPS up you'll be able to do MP1 with the skills you want. However, I do think you will need Spirit Walk -- it is too strong of a skill not to use because it helps in so many ways. But that's just my opinion.

    I would suggest switching the passive pet skills for either Jungle Fortitude or Pierce the Veil while you're getting geared up to do MP1 -- both of those will help a lot in your attempts to take down elites more safely/more quickly, respectively.

    Crit gear does add into DPS -- the calculation shown is correct. The thing is, crit gear kind of scales with itself -- the more crit damage you have, the more crit chance contributes to DPS, and vice versa. So while you don't have a lot of chance/damage, the comparisons will tend to show up as not being DPS upgrades, but as you get more of either, the other one will boost your DPS more. For some reason, I never had this problem when gearing up because I'd find a great upgrade that upgraded both my main stat and my crit chance/damage, so I didn't have to stockpile items to use later. But as you can see on my profile, I have lots of crit chance/crit damage on my gear and it really helps boost my DPS. My characters tend to have around 30% crit chance from the affixes on amulet/gloves/bracers/rings/offhands. Weapons can roll large crit damage amounts, and I've found that generally it's crit damage (emerald socket or otherwise) that determines how good a weapon is relative to another, after the main DPS number, of course.
  8. PandadudeSP

    PandadudeSP IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    98
    I'm gonna go in a somewhat different direction: 60k+ life is overkill, you should get some dps instead. WD skills also have low LoH proc coefficients so I wouldnt bother with LoH at all, Id opt for life reg and pick up radius for globes instead. If you want much higher dps you obviously need to start working on attack speed, crit chance and crit dmg.

    Then you should get big stinker for gargantuam or/and burning dogs for zombie dogs because the higher attack frequency of the dot will help them keep aggro (which is what theyre supposed to do) and the other runes are bad anywho.
    Locust swarm is based on base damage and not DPS, so it is not a good fit with a fast 1.4 dagger. If you have the mana for it (which I see you don't with your +mana reg and skill choices) zombie bears would be the best alternative for elites. You should also have at least 1 defensive ability, spirit walk, horrify or mass confusion would all work based on personal prefference, possibly switching out sacrifice since its an 800% dps short range aoe with 45 sec cooldown that is gonna kill all your meat shields - or get the mana rune for when they die in conjunction with zombie bears.

    I'm just gonna link my self-found WD for reference: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Pandadude-2245/hero/18402784
    For SC I would replace horrify with soul harvest for extra dps or firebomb for OOM, shield for an offhand with dmg, crit, mana reg, stats giving +7-8k dps, and jewelry for dps stats so I'd crack 35-40k dps, 45k life, 400 all res and 3500 armor.
  9. PearlJamaholic

    PearlJamaholic IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    102
    Arent all (WD) skills based on weapon dmg not DPS?

    For a little update, i think some progress has been made. The other evening i started playing MP1 with my build to get a base just doing Act2 key runs. I must have upgraded a bit in gear since the last time i played cause i wasnt dying as much i remembered, it was actually playable.

    Then yesterday i switched out Grasp of the Dead for Soul Harvest (Vengeful Spirit) and i was dying all over the place. It took awhile to get use to the play difference. Funny how one skill can change play so much. I was so use to things slowing down that the speed of the game really changed. I stuck with it and the added boost to dmg was amazing but at first was useless cause of all the dying. With 5 stacks of Harvest i can hit 31k, and i did the numbers and thats nearly a 40% increase, not shabby at all. Now that im use to this, and tweaked my playing it works pretty good. I was so use to sitting back and dropping Grasp on them from a distance and spraying them with Locust when i saw an opening. Now i have to run in and nail them with Soul Harvest. Magewraiths are really the only thing that got harder, everything else seems the same or easier.

    I was thinking of giving Spirit Walk a chance after Soul Harvest but im really liking this change now. I'll probably try out the other suggestions real soon though. Still having a hard time deciding on passives and which direction to go there, im like an old man stuck in my ways with those. I like all 3 i have and cant seem to reason which one i should switch and why and with what...

    I've found 4 legendary items in the time since but still no crit items that are an over all improvement. I think that is my next hurdle finding that crit gear. One question about gear, i know i have Life to spare when it comes to dmg upgrades that i can take a little loss, but what about resist all? I feel good with my resist stats but unsure if i can sacrifice some points there for dmg too.

    Thanks for all tips in here, it has really helped my WD.
  10. BaronScarpia

    BaronScarpia IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Useful links (for Tl,dr situations, organized info or just in case I'm wrong :whistling:):

    Locust Swarm build
    A thread where we're talking about Fire/firebombs build
    Uber Setup
    Self Found WD info
    (there's a build called Zero Dog, but I couldn't find info about that, except this thread mentioning it)
    -----

    Like panda dude said, too much life. I never ventured on way higher MP settings to know the exact data, but 50k + good AR and Jungle Fortitude kinda do the trick. One of the reasons I never got into higher MP (5+) is that it seems Zombie Bears are kinda mandatory there. Anyway, I'm doing MP0 for paragon levels/gear, since it seems more productive.

    - On your build: Your dogs are better alive and kicking, for that reason I would take out sacrifice. I managed to do key runs on act 4, MP3 for the key without LoH, LR, LS, solely relying on Zombie Dogs for leeching. That said, I would take out sacrifice for Spirit Walk/mana rune. I know you enter on SW mode when Spirit Vessel triggers, but you don't want spirit vessel to trigger often. I'm somewhat careless, so I use spirit vessel to avoid deaths on keep level 2, while being blown up for fallen maniacs (and sometimes agains RD + something).

    Using vessel dead mode, for me, is a way to get bored waiting for cooldowns. I use spirit walk to avoid that and regen mana.

    Maybe picking up the most defining skill on your build to make gear choices can be helpful (i.e.: Ias and crit stuff for firebomb; + locust swarm damage for locust swarm).

    - WD Damage: Imo, the description of skills' damage is horrible and misleading in-game. On the game guide (aka website), I fell they're only misleading. While the DPS is close to useless telling your kill speed, it's not that wrong. (I.e. - I want to deal 50k damage. I'm kinda close of always doing so, but my DPS said 70k. I switched Pierce the Veil with Grave Injustice and my killspeed is higher, thanks to Thing of The Deep and killing stuff at ok speed - but I "lost" over 10k DPS. I can get ~5k DPS if I switch my soj for a crit/crit%/int ring, but my kill speed falls dramatically).

    Maybe the damage is weapon damage based, in the sense you don't want to sacrifice lots of weapon min-max damage for int and stuff. (I don't like to run around with less than 850 dps weapons). And that's it. Your skills gain benefit from critical hits (especially firebomb) and if you score them, the game applies the crit damage bonus. Also, the number of attacks per second (1.4+) affects your kill speed with certain skills - or, at least, it fells less boring.

    That translates into: you're using a dagger, forget about IAS for now. Crit% and Crit dmg are that good, not because they "raise your DPS", but because critical hits give you better killspeed (and having more firebombs out is good too).

    I know you're self found, but it ends up being easier to get some crit chance and a socketed weapon with high DPS than finding Mr.-Right-Echoing-Fury (Int + crit dmg + 1k+ dps).

    I don't know the exact numbers for higher MP (around 5), but if I was you, I would axe around 100 vit (or 200, if you get more paragon levels), pack some crit chance/dmg and do alkaizer runs. "Kills white mobs in 2-3 hits" DPS + 35-40k life + 500 AR + 3k armor + jungle fortitude are what worked for me on MP0. After that, I started to polish things (1 hit ko white mobs) and I'm running for paragon levels.

    It seems you're planning to do something else (solo uber runs), problem is that almost all WD key runners use Zombie Bears + Zuni 3 piece bonus to do uber runs (I don't remember if there's a stun build for MP or if it would work solo). You can do Mp0 alkaizer runs with almost any build, some being better than others.

    WD feels kinda "bugged", since you need specific items affixes to kill elites fast (+ XX% dmg to elites/elemental damage - soj, zuni certain legendaries; + locust swarm damage%; reduced cost/mana solutions for Zbears). With other classes, one just packs DPS and figure out how to deal with RD.

    Hope this post helps, somehow...

Share This Page