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Discussion in 'Diablo 3 Hardcore Forum' started by BongoFury, Jan 11, 2013. | Replies: 21 | Views: 1811

  1. BongoFury

    BongoFury IncGamers Member

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    Hey There

    'I've been away for too long', to quote Soundgarden. But it's good to be back to an old haunt. I don't see many of the ancient ones around here, other than ZappaFan, but that could be due to my memory more than anything. But I'm back.

    I finally got a new computer, and I bought the game for myself as a Christmas present. Started off in noobcore, and was very happy to see I could play HC without finishing the game once. So I moved over to HC, where I really belong. I figured I needed to build up wealth, and to soften the blow when I lost a toon, so I decided to play one of each. Things were going pretty easily, so to earn more I have been playing on MP5. Lost one toon when I was over confident and got sloppy, maybe a belly full of whiskey had something to do with it also. DUI (Diablo Under the Influence) and HC don't mix, a lesson I had to remember. My other two losses were when I stumbled into the act end bosses unprepared. Had I checked gear and/or gone to less MP I would have gotten through both of them. So now I'd like some advise, what are the points where I need to be careful playing through in HC for the first time? I don't want to be spoiled, I don't want items, I don't want to play multiplayer, I prefer to play it through the first time myself and make my own discoveries and experience it all clean. But I don't want to keep losing toons. So if you could just tell me 'be careful when leaving Halls of Pain 3, or when you hit the part of Act 2 where Caldeum is under attack', just general warnings nothing spoilerish. Just, where do I need to be careful, due to act bosses or other nasty encounters?

    I'm rebuilding my Barb, but the other 4 are all in the 20-26 range in Act 2. I'm really enjoying the game so far, it's different than the other 2 and requires some different play styles, but that is all good. The only thing that is drawing my concern is the reliance there seems to have been placed on items. I hated MFing in the previous versions, and prided myself on being able to play with pedestrian gear. But I am getting the feeling that D3 is all about your items, since all the characters (of a type) are the same. Gear seems to be the distinguishing characteristic. Which is VERY discouraging for me. But I'm still new, I hope my impression is wrong.

    Good to be back at the HC forum, and to be playing Diablo again.

    Regards-
    Mark

    BongoFury#1415
  2. ZappaFan

    ZappaFan Hardcore Moderator and America Trade Moderator

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    Wow! Bongo! Welome! There are still a few other old timers floating about...

    but yeah, any of the bosses where you are going to get trapped for the fight, you need to learn those for sure. I tell ya, some really good reading right here in the Wiki is a good place to start regarding all the different boss fights, and what to look out for, and where you'll encounter them:

    http://www.diablowiki.net/Boss
  3. Sonolegolas

    Sonolegolas IncGamers Member

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    Avoid the cumbling vault on MP10(normal). I was playing like a zombie once and entered without thinking. I tried rushing it (like in softcore) to find the treasure room and after 30 seconds I had 3 or 4 elite/champion packs after me, along with trash mobs. Had my hp jump to ~5% a number of times, the only thing that saved me were lucky revenge triggers and leap.
  4. BongoFury

    BongoFury IncGamers Member

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    Sorry to be so late replying, but my free time is spent playing, not on the forum.

    Zappa, good to see at least one old familiar face around. But how the hell are you still moderating this zoo? Does Ely have incriminating pictures of you and farm animals that you are being blackmailed with? Of course without PKing being part of the game, and without troublemakers like me to perpetuate flame wars about it, the job is probably a lot easier than is use to be. But STILL ...

    I know that there is plenty of information about the game out there, but I have been purposely avoiding it because i don't want to get spoiled. I was looking for just the briefest warnings about the general areas where I should be careful. But the problem doesn't exist any more. My Wiz and WD are my highest level characters, and I have SOME wealth built up, so I figured the best way to get richer faster is to push as far forward in the game as possible. So I went to 0MP and I am alternating those two. I'll play them as far as I can until one dies and then I'll go back to the other toons. Both are somewhere around the middle of A4 Normal. The WD seems to be the more powerful of the two, even though the Wiz has about 25% higher damage, 600ish vs 480ish. Both are around 4200 life.

    A few questions now. Please answer with as little spoiling as possible.

    Crafting: Should I be doing it now? I have done nothing with it and the ingredients are starting to pile up, I am selling them a little. Are the upgrades to the Smith and Jeweler character or account based?

    Skills: I have been experimenting with them all. Some are easier than others to use. Are there generally accepted 'power skills', ones that are better than the others for each class? I want to get as far into the game as I can, so no sense getting killed using less than optimal skills. I remember when D2 first came out I thought that the Blizzard skill HAD to be the best choice for the Sorc, since it was named after the damned game company. But back then it was crap. So what are the skills i should be concentrating on for my first time through.

    Is there any of the old GAT group around? I had a very old message in my inbox where someone was trying to organize some of those old 'guilds', did anything materialize out of that? I might be interested in MP once I finish Normal difficulty.

    Regards-
    Mark

    BongoFury#1415
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  5. ZappaFan

    ZappaFan Hardcore Moderator and America Trade Moderator

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    Crafting: Blacksmithing is generally not worth it, unfortunately. Better off selling items you find and don't want to the merchant for gold (rather than salvaging for crafting materials). Wait and see after the next patch but most likely the only changes are going to affect lvl 60 players.

    Jeweler: very much worth teaching him up as high as you can.

    Skills: I can only speak about Barbs very much. I have a lvl 60(3) Demon Hunter but other than that I've played nothing but Barbs. I think they've done a pretty good job of balancing the skills overall, just try different things and see what you like and what seems to work. There are plenty of build guides in the various class forums here. There are some combo's you might not think to try. But until you're going through the last half of Hell I think you can probably progress pretty well using what you think is working. Nice thing is you can experiment around with everything, no rebuilding just to try a different build.

    GAT: I'll send you a PM with the Diablo GAT forum, but sadly D3 wasn't very well received by that crew and I'm not sure anybody is even playing it anymore.
  6. BongoFury

    BongoFury IncGamers Member

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    I've been selling everything worth 125 or more, and salvaging the rest. I am finding that selling the salvage is more profitable than selling the low priced items. And, I am also selling all the vitality items I find cheaply on the AH, I can generally get 300-1000 (after the 15% fee) for them. Am I playing this well?

    When I check all of my old D2 places, it is the same everywhere, VERY quiet with very few of the old D2 crowd around. I get the impression that D3 is a failure. Well, not necessarily a failure, but nothing at all like the smash successes that the first two iterations of the game were. Personally, I am finding that I am already losing some of my passion. I think this game will last me a few more weeks or a few more months, rather than the several years that the first two held my attention. It is still early, and I could be wrong, but this is my early impression. I am finding the story to be excellent. And the graphics are amazing. But story and graphics are two of the absolute least important things to me in a game. It is the gameplay that really matters, and the emphasis on items in D3 is already starting to turn me off. I don't enjoy all the time I need to spend on the auction house searching for items, and trying to sell my extras. And D3 just doesn't have that feeling of dread that the earlier games had. In those games, you could die at any time if you were sloppy. Fighting the Butcher in D1 was an epic battle early on, I remember running for my life and fighting frantically. And even playing it today, it is still a tough fight if you don't glitch him. But in D3 I have only died when I was REALLY stupid, or when I went into a boss fight at high MP unprepared. Once I know what to expect, D3 offers little challenge. At least so far.

    I personally prefer standoff characters, casters or shooters in a game like this. I was never good with melee types, I have trouble clicking exactly on a monster to attack it. Playing melee, I often run back and forth over a monster before hitting it. it's just personal preference really. But D3 is designed for melee types to excell. With the limited potion usage and the health globe drops it caters to a play style that is in your face and constantly moving forward. Melee types constantly recharge as they kill and move further into the battle. While standoff types have it very tough. Attacking at range, avoiding direct contact with the enemy, and retreating back into safe zones as you blast away at the attacking monster is penalized by the D3 game design. So my preferred style of play doesn't really 'work' in D3. Which I think is incredibly short sighted by the game designers. That was the beauty of D1 and D2, it accommodated multiple play styles, it let the players play how THEY liked, it didn't really favor one style over another. But D3 has a definite slant to it, and it certainly penalizes players like me. I'm not surprised that you are playing primarily Barbs Zappa, the game is absolutely favoring them from a stylistic point of view. The strengths of the other Diablo games was that they allowed a wide variety of players to play in many many different ways. But D3 seems to cater to melee players who like to structure their characters around items. The two things that I like least.

    Regards-
    Mark

    BongoFury#1415
  7. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    Well, I still like D3 very much. Yes it's different from D2 for sure, mainly the non permanent builds, so you can swap skills around.

    If you don't have time to play 8 hrs a day that's actually pretty nice. I can try out a different build without having to level a new character. Since we have 5 classes I have now only brought 2 to inferno (of which 1 died, so i have to rebuild anyway :p), 3rd one is in Hell. I think I can entertain myself with D3 until the expansion comes :)

    I actually think the AH is bad in the way that it makes you spend too much time out of the game, since you are almost obliged to use it. On the other hand, it's still a free choice though :)
  8. BongoFury

    BongoFury IncGamers Member

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    In that respect it is nice, yes. But then my Wizard is exactly like your Wizard which is exactly the same as every other Wiz in the game. And as Zappa said, all the skills are pretty much balanced, so in effect it doesn't really matter which skills I use. The only difference is then just in the displayed effects, the graphics. Which in my opinion is boring as hell. I think it is bad game design, because it caters to just one style of player. That was the beauty of D2, it had extremely broad appeal. You could design your character in many many different ways. If you prefered to use the power skills and blast through things you could do it. Or if you liked to play a less than optimal build and use the less powerful skills, you could. If you liked to MF and find the best items in the game to equip your character in the uber gear, you could. Or if yo uwanted to play untwinked with what you found along the way, or even play totally naked (like my Naked Guardian), you could do that as well. Your build and your skill could allow you to play without all the uber items. But in D3 it seems to me that what makes a character unique, and what is the source of their ultimate power, are their items. Which almost forces you to MF, and to spend hours upon hours on the AH. Which severely limits the game, and as I said, is poor fundamental game design. In my opinion. But I could be wrong, I've only been playing for less than a month. These are my early impressions. But the game is what, 9 months old? Nine months into D2, it was difficult as hell to keep up with all the posts on this forum. And 9 months into D3 and this forum gets a handful of posts a day, the same as all the other forums and message boards about d3. I don't think Blizzard can be happy with how D3 has been received. And considering that 3 of their last 4 releases (Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2 and D3) have been less successful than their earlier work, I don't consider a new Blizzard game as an automatic buy any more.
  9. VagrantKing

    VagrantKing IncGamers Member

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    I do agree on the feel of D3 is vastly different than it was in D2 and D1.

    The gameplay is actually what keeps me coming back. D3 encourages and sometimes 'forces' more than the simple stand and shoot mentality which becomes more prominent in the higher difficulties. I think melee and range classes both have their advantages but I agree that Barbs are very robust (OP).

    Honestly I would say that the 1 to 60 leveling process is more of getting to know your class type of process. Once you hit 60 and then inferno your focus then shifts to optimizing your build, itemization, and loots.

    Imo there is no way to avoid the Auction House unless you want to spend endless hours playing as a self-found player which has no benefit. At least the HC Auction House is much more balanced in comparison to the SC Auction House where there is major over-saturation on items.

    I would warn that the 'hot spots' you need to watch for while leveling are not exactly spots but actual particular monster types. Certain types of monsters and elite monster packs are brutal depending on your class. When you then combine those monsters with various affixes like Arcane, Fast, Extra Health, Waller, Jailer, etc is where you start to feel the pain.

    Note:
    Normal - 1 affix
    Nightmare - 2 affix
    Hell - 3 affix
    Inferno - 4 affix !!
  10. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    I don't understand that. It's a good thing they are balanced so you can use them all. They make the character play completely different sometimes, which is what you are talking about (non standard builds a la D2). With the runes you have a lot of different skill sets and play styles available.

    I agree that items make your character unique. But items are tied to you skill choice. When you change your skill set you will often find out you need different items to supplement those skills. So yes, there a lots of different builds possible and viable and to be honest most people (me included) are still using the most common/powerful builds. I think many people will start try out freak builds after they have finished the game/hellfire etc.

    Not trying to defend D3 here, just my opinion. D2 has entertained me for a long long time and I hope D3 will do the same but time will tell :)
  11. Mn_Swe2

    Mn_Swe2 IncGamers Member

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    Hi!
    Here are some builds that are proven to work very well for HC, using some of the skills that are considered to be the best. You can check out the skills and see how you like them.

    You do not need stats anywhere near what I have to make these work, and I would say that Barb + WD are the most popular builds for new players. Monk is good as well but requires some better gear. All these classes have great survivor/panic skills to avoid death or be resurrected.

    Wizard and DH are too fragile unless you have awesome gear, one nasty elite pack + one mistake from you and you are dead. (Vortex, Frozen, Arcane et c). I have played both as lvl 60's and found out this the hard way, haha!

    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/MagnusN-2169/hero/14119963

    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/MagnusN-2169/hero/5595047

    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/MagnusN-2169/hero/5593559

    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/MagnusN-2169/hero/14246434

    To make an ok char by using the AH is really cheap by now. For 1 million you can get a Barb or WD capable of soloing Inferno Act1-3 on Mp0. Act4 is tougher if you ask me, but I guess you have already found that out. :)
  12. Mn_Swe2

    Mn_Swe2 IncGamers Member

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    And I hope you have turned on elective mode, so you can choose and rearrange your skills as you wish?
  13. BongoFury

    BongoFury IncGamers Member

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    My WD just finished A1NM (L39, 10,818 life, 885 dam). She seems to be the best character for me so far. The summons are enough to keep her from getting swamped, and her attacks seem pretty powerful, for now. I also have my Wiz at the end of A4N (L32, 5,434 life, 628 dam), almost to the Diablo fight. Just trying to redo the gear before that fight. I have also been playing my Barb, he is in A3N (L29, 5382 life, 510 dam), quite durable, and very macho as he blasts through things and leaves debris spinning in his wake. The Monk (L21) and DH (L20) are basically parked.

    My WD is very similar. I have been using the flaming bats insted of the zombie charger because it seems to have a longer range than the firebombs. And I just started playing with wall of zombies. Is Spirit Walk a sort of teleport, does it basically let you walk where ever you want? And is Spirit Vessel sort of a heal on death sort of thing? A second chance if you will?

    My Barb uses Cleave most of the time, I like the way it attacks a whole group of enemies. Rend seems a waste to me since most monsters die in 2-3 swings, nothing lasts the 5 seconds that bleed length lasts. Is Revenge sort of a passive type thing? I have been using it, and if I try to trigger it nothing seems to happen. Are you using Leap and Whirl as sort of 'escape' skills?

    Interesting character utility there. I am amazed that Blizzard made such a neat little tool for us.
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BongoFury-1415/hero/30137188
    Those are my toons, I welcome all comments, criticism and advise.

    Now a few questions:

    Do we ever get more than 3 pages in the stash? I'm a packrat and I'd love more. My 5 other characters are all basically mules at this point.

    Is armor a critical stat? Should I be concerned with it? In D2 it was basically something I ignored.

    When items say 'hit adds x life' or 'chance to freeze on hit, what exactly is a 'hit'? Is it only a melee strike? Or do arrows 'hit'? What about spell effects, do they 'hit'? What about the WDs minions, do they 'hit'? Followers?

    My account name is BongoFury, and I have used that name for characters all through the previous versions of the game, but now it is not allowed. WTF, doesn't Blizzard like Frank Zappa? If they want me to name my toon Justin Bieber, they can go F themselves.

    Regards-
    Mark
    BongoFury#1415
  14. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    My Barb uses Cleave most of the time, I like the way it attacks a whole group of enemies. Rend seems a waste to me since most monsters die in 2-3 swings, nothing lasts the 5 seconds that bleed length lasts. Is Revenge sort of a passive type thing? I have been using it, and if I try to trigger it nothing seems to happen. Are you using Leap and Whirl as sort of 'escape' skills?

    --> Revenge is triggered sometimes when you get hit. You'll see the icon light up and then you can use it. Pretty good skill for the barb in my opinion!

    Do we ever get more than 3 pages in the stash? I'm a packrat and I'd love more. My 5 other characters are all basically mules at this point.

    --> No :-(

    Is armor a critical stat? Should I be concerned with it? In D2 it was basically something I ignored.

    --> Yes! Armor and resistance are equal in that they reduce ALL incoming damage. Try to stack both as high as possible to have the highest damage mitigation.

    When items say 'hit adds x life' or 'chance to freeze on hit, what exactly is a 'hit'? Is it only a melee strike? Or do arrows 'hit'? What about spell effects, do they 'hit'? What about the WDs minions, do they 'hit'? Followers?

    -> Hmm good question, i think they are all 'hits' except for followers, but maybe somebody can answers this with more certainty
  15. spiffymcbang

    spiffymcbang D3 Trade Moderator<br> America, USEast (D2)<br> Ne

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    Rend works very well as difficulty ramps up and monsters have more life. It also work great for mobs. as you get higher level, different runes will help you but I like the healing rune in it.

    Early on I liked bash for the stunning aspect. then I switched to frenzy for the speed. I have dabled with cleave but it did not stick for me.

    Revenge I don't use at all during the walks from normal to late hell. Then I use it when things get tough. It is a skill that activates when you get hit. Then you use it to kill and heal damage.

    I suspect we will see more tabs in the stash in the expansion pack.

    Also I might recommend getting one character thru to 60 and use that character to help the others for getting gear. Might help you out.
  16. Moichi

    Moichi IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, pretty much.

    The thing to keep in mind with things like "Life on Hit" or "x% to Freeze on Hit", commonly called procs, is that those proc chances / values are modified by the proc coefficient of the skill you are using.
    Generally speaking, slow attacks which can't hit multiple targets (and as such have a low potential number of hits/second) will have a high proc coefficient, like 0.5, while fast / ae attacks (with potentially a very high number of hits/second) might have a very low proc coefficient, like 0.01, to avoid the proc effects becoming opverpowered.
    For example: your barb has "5% chance to fear on hit" combined an all your gear.
    Skill A, single target, PC 0.5: you will have an actual chance to fear on each hit of 2.5%
    Skill B, AE, PC 0.01: your chance to fear on hit will actually be 0.05% (but you might get in tons of hits per second using this skill)

    If you wanna look up details, just search the web for d3 proc coefficients, there are numerous sites and spreadsheets out there.
  17. BongoFury

    BongoFury IncGamers Member

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    So a hit makes it available, and then I have to activate it? A hit cocks the gun and then I have to pull the trigger if you will?

    I was playing all 5 at the very start, to try them all out and see what I liked. Then I realized that to earn wealth the fastest, I needed to push one toon as deep into the game as possible. But when I lost my frontrunner (when I list it, not if I lost it), I didn't want to have to go way back. So I decided to push two characters, alternating playing them. But when my Wiz made it to Diablo I felt she was too weak for the job, so I decided to push the Barb instead. He just killed Diablo and the NM Skeleton King today, so he's catching up to the WD.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BongoFury-1415/hero/30137188

    Some new questions:
    Is there a way to shut the followers the hell up? They were cute for a while, but now they are REALLY annoying. I absolutely can't tolerate the Templar, and the Scoundrel is an asshat (Just what exactly IS it that they do in Kingsport, stand around and watch while someone else does the *** kicking?). So I have been reduced to using the Enchantress, but even her bimboisms are starting to get to me.

    Has Blizzard STILL been unable to stop duping? I see many instances of the exact same item in the auction house. Only blues, but they have the exact same random stats over 2-3 variable afixes. And I am far too cynical to believe that this is just coincidence.
  18. Moichi

    Moichi IncGamers Member

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    Nope.
    Those are vendor-bought. People do vendor-shopping and sell the good ones (you're not limited to one item if you buy from the vendor).
  19. Solwolf

    Solwolf Clan Officer - US East Hardcore

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    Hey there Bongo. As Zappa said earlier, virtually no one from the old GAT crew is playing d3; really didn't see all that many when the game was released, and even fewer within a month or two. d3 was a massive disappointment for me, and I know I'm not alone in that feeling.

    To answer your WD questions (WD is/was my primary char):

    1) Bats v Bears: Bats have a longer range, Bears are almost melee but do substantially more damage to a group of mobs.

    2) Wall of Zombies is great to break up groups of elites, but with the relatively low (compared to release d3) damage monsters do, I don't think it's used all that often anymore - especially now that WD pets are so tanky.

    3) Spirit Walk is a must-have spell for HC WDs for a couple reasons - first, it's a CC breaker. If you're frozen or rooted, you can hit Spirit Walk to break the CC and make your escape. second, it's a near invulnerability - while you can be broken out of it theoretically, it never happened to me. Spirit Walk is great for getting the hell out of a bad situation (and regenning life if you take that rune) since you can run through mobs and take no damage.

    4) Spirit Vessel is also a must-have for HC, IMO. It's a get-out-of-death-free card. When you take lethal damage (i.e., you would have otherwise seen Deeds) Spirit Vessel procs and auto-casts Spirit Walk for you, without using Spirit Walk's cooldown. Vessel has a 90 second cooldown, and in addition to its literally life-saving primary benefit, also lowers the cooldown on Spirit Walk. The drawback for this talent is, if you play conservatively and never get close to a life threatening encounter, you're using 33% of your talents for just a cooldown reduction on a few Spirit spells. This talent has definitely saved my WD from Deeds more than once - but not really since Blizz nerfed the difficulty of the game a few months ago.

    Hope you enjoy d3, and nice to see an old name reappear.

    -Sol
  20. ZappaFan

    ZappaFan Hardcore Moderator and America Trade Moderator

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    A hit has a chance to proc Revenge. If you use the Provocation rune it's a 35% chance to proc. Also, a Blocked hit is still a hit, whereas a Dodged hit is NOT a hit. So, if you really like Revenge, as I do, try to limit Dex in your build. High Block low Dex works great for Revenge. With Revenge you want to get hit, you just don't want to get hit too hard. So lots of trash monsters are always your friend. :)

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