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Hoping that 1.0.6 will be the Monk patch!

Discussion in 'Monk' started by windstriker, Oct 22, 2012. | Replies: 37 | Views: 15840

  1. windstriker

    windstriker IncGamers Member

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    What do you guys think, will next patch be the one where they try to fix some of the monks problems? I believe they will definitely change OWE. Will be interesting to see how, I do not feel as scared now when I just read that they will be lowering dmg output form monsters tomorrow. But what else can we hope for?

    - I'd love to see a nice dmg increasing passive, hopefully more interesting that +5 crit chance or +9AS.
    - Maybe give us some more exciting and useful spirit regenerators. Anyone who uses anything else than thunderclap or quickening? Ever?

    What do you guys think? Hopeful, or do you think we'll be left out once again perhaps?
  2. Volapyk

    Volapyk IncGamers Member

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    Well considering 1.04 was a big WD focus, with some Wizard thrown in there for fun, though most of the other classes got something as well (ofc monk just got some small numbers boost and remained just as before 1.04), 1.05 seemed to be more of a DH patch. I can't remember from the top of my head but I'm sure barbs got some love in a patch or beta or somewhere cause they certainly don't need more :p

    Hopefully that will mean Monks will get looked at thoroughly for 1.06, and let's hope there will actually be a 1.06 and they wont go for PvP next (as in 1.1) which I think might take quite a while.
  3. zorroaster

    zorroaster IncGamers Member

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    I only hope they won't screw OWE the way they screwed STI. Its still almost mandatory only you get less benefit. thanks blizz...
  4. Dogbert

    Dogbert IncGamers Member

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    Monk is fine. Just reflect damage that is annoying. If some class needs some love it's wizard.
  5. zorroaster

    zorroaster IncGamers Member

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    Reflect damage is fine. (for monks, not for wiz or DH) If you have problem with RD as a monk, that means you are too glass cannon.
  6. pulli

    pulli IncGamers Member

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    Wizzard got lots of new ideas with the buffs to hydras.. They can actually chose build depending on playstyle.
  7. elbjornbjorn

    elbjornbjorn IncGamers Member

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    here's hoping that they dont overnerf OWE, they've warned us that it's comming but they cant afford to piss off all monks, right? not that that's any guarantee
  8. pulli

    pulli IncGamers Member

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    What I hope is that they "swap" the innate ability of 30% damage reduction.


    Instead make the innate monk ability "one with everything", and give each class an always on passive, (barbarians 30% armour reduction, give demon hunters something like "7% bonus damage vs elites", witch doctors something on kill, and wizard another fun mod)... As then one with everything suddenly becomes "weak" compared to 30% damage reduction they can (should) also finally fix the problem of single res mods being lower than all res of the same quality. Then they could make single res mods double of what they are now.
  9. Volapyk

    Volapyk IncGamers Member

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    Huh an inate passive for each class is actually a very good idea imo. Move one of the true 'must-have' passives into this slot. Like OWE for monks. Haven't played the other classes that much beyond getting them to 60, but I'm sure some of the passives they have are 'must-have'.
  10. Pizzarino

    Pizzarino IncGamers Member

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    "The monk patch"


    I really hate to see stuff like this. There's no set precident that Blizzard wants to go class to class, patch to patch with massive revisions. Do you think you're playing WoW classic? You're not. Are there massive switching costs for you to shift to a "main" in another class? There aren't. Are you feeling massively betrayed that whichever class you arbitrarily picked as a first character on day 1 might not be the best class in the game? You shouldn't.


    STI wasn't nerfed. They changed the entire game around a new scale for monster damage and expected damage mitigation for players. STI actually got BETTER because in 1.0.4 you could pack in enough defensive mods from gear to never need it to faceroll act 3 inferno. The entire game changed, so now you want STI MORE so you can dial up MP as high as possible. If you want Monk changes, don't ask for some passive that you pick to makes your character sheet damage go up by 10% to "make up for" the STI nerf. Stuff like that is short sighted. Lashing Tail Kick and Wave of Light had some meaningless damage related integers increased in 1.0.4 and they're still only useful for gimmick specs.


    Monks are actually not broken, useless, or poorly designed. If you build them correctly you can do things other classes can't, using the synergy between the most efficient skills. Monks provide incredible utility to a group when fighting ubers with high defense and Mantra of Conviction, or the best group skill in the game. If you build them incorrectly you can get 100k damage and die a lot and still not be a barbarian.
  11. windstriker

    windstriker IncGamers Member

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    You missed so many points in this post. It's not like people expect a patch "just for monks", most of us just want to see more useful skills to be able to vary our builds more and make the class more interesting. The monk class has a lot of potential, but it isn't there yet.

    STI was nerfed. The monk perhaps wasn't nerved, but the passive itself sure as hell was. Sure they lowered general dmg from all mobs, but that doesn't change the fact that STI was nerved. The passive did not get better, monks got better. Just as all the other classes.
    And people don't want a passive to "make up for" the STI nerf. They want a passive to increase dmg to be able to build their monks in another way than only defense through the passives. Right now there are 2 passives that increase dodge. The only difference is you pick the crit based if you go for a shield and the +15% while dualwielding if you go for dual weapons instead. Except for the fact that dodge isn't that useful so pretty much no one is using any of the two.

    And no, my monk doesn't feel broken, useless or poorly designed. And yeah, I can do things other classes can't. Doesn't change the fact that I'm mostly a mantra spammer when I play with others though.

    So, my question to you, do I understand you correctly when I believe what you are saying that there's not a lot of room for improvement of the monk class?
  12. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    * thats just bull**** across the board - Monk has even after the buff the least effecient ressource spender.

    * There has been no Combo generator revision whatsoever;
    - signature skills got buffed / redesigned
    - Barbarian fury generator was pretty much the first thing they brought in line i
    - DH hatred generator got pretty much all touched up except for hungering arrow which was considered the best choice anyway
    - WD got an massive manareg boost and an overhaul of skill mechanics especially for animation / cost
    - Monks Combo geneator are the only skills which are literally untouched since release. unlike all the before-mentioned classes.

    WD / DH / Pets got massively buffed and redesigned Sentries and Witchdoctor pets are beastly same as Hydra overhaul

    Wizard Armors got overhauled
    -whereas Monk Mantras are untouched except for the nerf to mantra of healing in the early days.
    -non of the runes except of overawe make mathematically any sense whatsoever in Mantra of conviction.
    - Mantra of Healing is a ****ing joke for everything beyond Hell
    - Mantra of Retribution is the most shameful gamedesign / numbertweaking / logic i have ever seen in display - here is why if you are interested


    Mantra of Evasion - is the only mantra which atleast has a somewhat solid concept behind the rune choices.




    Combogenerator ; most combogerator are laugable. The ones that generate spirit on crit and **** will always pale in comparison to what CM + AP does for wizard , or what does Mighty Weapons / Into the fray for the barbarian.
    its laugable how much power you have to sac for some ****ty spirit - to use some ****ty spirit-spender.

    besides that. the combogenerator are to homogen - they lack identity, and purpose - its no wonder no one wants use more than one combogenerator ; and we all know that that one will Thunderclap. the evasion rune of thunderclap atleast has purpose - but the othe r3 runes are hopeless.

    same goes for the other generator ; crippling wave is good vs groups - but than again Thunderclap is also ****ing great against them. for DH i can tell the role of the skill ,

    Hungering arrow is great for picking off single targets.
    Bolashot is great against groups
    tangling shot is great for CC


    for Monk its all just a big jumble with cheesy weak as debuffs / lame buffs or one combo skill trying to be another.
    WOTHF really needs a long range windspear ?
    DR really needs a Cone AE ? (Trident).

    * non scaling Heals - yeah great who didnt always want a 6,5 k heal when you have 80 k hp vs mp8-10 ubers.
    that sure will save my hide.

    * Inner sanctuary - you'd think they never field tested their own skills.
    * Sweeping Wind ; i like how you deliberately designed the skill to have only a single rune that scales in a significant way with you gear ; great decision blizzard - that sure will help with the build diversity.

    * Bells- i still hate them ; to expensive for too little purpose
    * SSS - less cooldown , more hits , more dmg , stun on hit , ae - 3 runes which do exactly the same thing in a different way.a typical stun. and an ae attack with a tiny radius.


    i could go on in greater detail about design misconception and inequality among the 5 classes ( and i havent even started on passives yet ) - but that wont do much ;
    i already posted about most of these issues on the official forums but i guess they dong give a flying f.

    so i will do what everyone does - i switch to the better class - the barbarian.
    dont get me wrong i dont just do it because he is op (which he is) - i do it because he has the more solid concept.

    i can say the same for DH and to an extent for WD

    but Monk / Wizard - concepts do not really add up in the current build - and i dont just mean abuseable cookie cutter build - i mean the whole spectrum of skills / roles.

    i mean my Sledgefist / Azurewrath / Overawe / Guiding Light / Exploding PALM monk is useful asset for my Friends in Ubers
    but these are cheap gimmicks or mechanics without depth. (especially Overawe is so dull yet so effective)

    my 2 cents
  13. Pizzarino

    Pizzarino IncGamers Member

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    So we know this is the basic Monk build:


    Fist of Thunder - Thunderclap
    Blinding Flash - Faith in the Light
    Breath of Heaven - Blazing Wrath
    Serenity - Ascension
    Sweeping Wind - Cyclone
    Mantra of Conviction - Overawe
    Passives: One with Everything, Seize the Initiative, Fleet Footed


    In 1.0.4, going on from when I hit about paragon 35, I dropped Seize and Blinding Flash for Tempent Rush - Tailwind and Exalted Soul. I also stopped carring around an MF swap and instead started carrying around a swap with spirit regen gear. I didn't care about some fraction of increased Sweeping Wind damage from the Blinding Flash and deaths were so rare Seize didn't even matter anymore either. My act 3 runs were no longer limited by damage or mitigation and only restricted by how fast I could run from one elite pack to another.


    In 1.0.5, I'm not limited by damage and mitigation anymore. I use STI again! STI was never taken away from me. It was given back! How I regard that as a nerf?


    So how can we make it so other skills cut in on the "basic" skills? I have no idea. If you're holding down left click for 5 straight minutes on an uber fight, you barely have enough spirit to use everything as soon as it goes off cooldown while keeping a constant refresh on the mantra. Monks are the most defensive class and the class with the most restricted resource system. Within those limits, there isn't a lot of room. If you want to just straight up replace the defensive skills and overhaul spirit generation you're really just pushing them towards the other classes.
  14. pulli

    pulli IncGamers Member

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    StI got nerfed from a neutral standpoint of someon who DOES NOT USE STI.

    Monks ARE amazing because they can pack defense. And tell me, how can I use "my synergy", except for mantras? I honestly never ever can aim heal, sanctuary or any skill during the heat of a battle. Really, how -without a perfect instant mobility skill like teleport- can you expect me to get close to a ranged dps char to heal him? Yet at the same time tank?

    @ last post:
    Do you have an egoistical egocentrical schizofrenic personality diagnosis? You really sound like one: "I can beat it fast enough so I could use something else, now they added more content so I can do more and then I have to use the original again so I can be optimal". THat's in 1 sentence what you were saying. All about yourself, what about those who could barely beat inferno? Or those just buying diablo?
  15. Pizzarino

    Pizzarino IncGamers Member

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    Maybe the greater point here is to man up and stop complaining? I beat 1.0.2 inferno act 2 using something like Deadly Reach, Mystic Ally, Breath of Heaven, Serenity, Mantra of Evasion, Sweeping Wind, Transcendence, Resolve, OWE. I had maybe 850 res all and 18k damage. It was NOT PRETTY. I ran into the enrage timer on over 50% of the elite packs. Things can be fun because they are hard.
  16. windstriker

    windstriker IncGamers Member

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    You still continue to miss the point. The point is "diversity", and that doesn't call for crap builds. It's not about people need to "man up". It's about there's a lot of room for improvement.
    Anyway, I think you've said yours and that is that you do not believe in nor hope for some improvement to build diversity for monks in next patch and you believe monk is fine as it is.
  17. Valeli

    Valeli IncGamers Member

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    If people want to make self-challenges they can play the game with a cracked bow (well, probably not in D3, but there are plenty of self-challenges you can still come up with if you feel like it). However, self-challenges shouldn't be forced on players (ie: it shouldn't be use this build or enjoy a challenge doing it another way). The idea that people need to "man up", in your words, is ridiculous.

    That said, the above is also an exaggeration. There are other ways than the cookie cutter spec that work reasonably effectively. I'm not playing on MP10 or anything, but I think I have a fairly different build myself (no blinding flash, no breath of heaven, no fleet of foot). I'm doing ok in inferno on HC at lower MP settings, so I can't be doing that bad. I know some people have played with Bells and had fun and some measure of success. So yeah, you have a few effective ways to play monk. People who say there's only one are exaggerating. They're exaggerating to make a point though. It's probably harder to come up with different playstyles on monk than the other jobs. In my view this is because, as Blizzard has repeatedly said, they've managed to make monk a class that revolves very heavily around simply keeping up buffs and passive abilities while hitting with thunderclap. There's room for variation in those passive actions (sweeping wind, mystic ally, mantra of x y or z, etc). But a very large portion of you time is spent just keeping stuff up for the sake of having it up while using your primary, and maybe something else that you can hit every thirty seconds or so.

    I also seriously think that specific animations are needed for the daibo. It's really lame to not have them, and I think that this fact in and of itself discourages two hand builds a bit.

    I agree with your very first point though - people shouldn't think of patches as the monk patch or the WD patch or whatever. I think that's a problematic outlook that doesn't lead anywhere good. Our patches are much broader in scope, unless there's a specific hotfix or such to target a class-specific issue that's not working properly or needs modification.
  18. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant IncGamers Member

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    ye your whole argument is " man up sissies, i can do all these things DESPITE they are sucking (subtext: iam awesome and you are noobs)"

    i want to use skills BECAUSE. and not DESPITE.

    i'd like to use deadly reach. because it has a deadly reach ~30-45 yard . what do i get ? 10-20 yards. which is nothing as far as far as AE property is concerned. and that is not even a radius; thats a straight line. Bolashot's basic variation probably covers 6 times the square-yards than "deadly"- reach. on top of dealing more dmg and being ranged.

    WoTHF. why raise the Spirit per hit ? why try to make all skills more like Thunderclap ? why not raise the dmg to ~250% per hit and put the spirit reg to ~4 ? you know so that you really do have an incentive to choose more than one generator for example.

    Crippling wave. the ae and the loh is pretty medicore - make some mechanic changes (eg. 1 target of all hit ones always supplies 100% loh.- and increase the radius of the base skill. also no one enjoys. runes such as "if this unit is hit it takes 10% more dmg - if this unit is hit it deals 20% less dmg" - its not exciting at all and only reminds me that the monk can do nothing but buffing / debuffing.

    Fists of Thunder. dayum fix those useless runes. no one will ever take Static charge or that prismatic thingy with those stats.
    i mean i really like the concept of static charge - I really do there is so much potential if numbers and mechanics are tuned right.

    eg. Static Charge increase duration to 7-10 sec. increase dmg to 55%. 1 additional spirit per hit for every tagged (charged) target.
    mechanic change. you can induce the 55% dmg on charged targets even without hitting someone. (shift click into the air)
    that seems like a skill i'D want to pick and to make work - i see the possibilities opening up of what i could do if i put in some extra effort / micro into play. as opposed to holding down my Thunderclap button for 30 mins straight while porting around and dealing insane dmg at the same time like a maniac.


    Prismatic thingy rune. first of all. make the chain-lighting also hit your primary target.
    second ; add an intriguing mechanic. straight up dmg effects are boring because most skills offer exactly that, straight up dmg.
    what if the chain-light would prioritize Health-Globes ? eg if the chainlight hits a Health Globe it will be picked up ( you and your party gets healed ) and at the same time the healthglobe explodes for ~150% dmg in a ~12 y radius ?

    my 2 cents. i think i have valid points. and it does not exactly take a rocket scientist to create enticing / intriguing skills. well and I am pretty disappointed into Blizzards class-bias or lack of creativity or caring.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  19. Volapyk

    Volapyk IncGamers Member

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    Inner Sanctuary isn't that useless, well okay it is useless, but it would be easy to make it worth using. It got some very nice rune effects, the base skill isn't that great though, all we really need is for either the duration to go a bit up, or the cooldown to go down. Would prefer both actually :p
  20. pulli

    pulli IncGamers Member

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    You know what I think is the basic problem?

    Many passive simple are "compulsory" OR "useless", only depending on number blizzard gave them. Really; take a look at one with everything. It is now very useful. Yet it is so for each and every way you would play a monk. This means that each build either has it (as it is now), or won't have it (if it gets nerfed far enough). Same for StI: another passive that is good independent of play style.

    Those passives are simply "badly designed'; yet at the same time they have come to identify the monk for what he is. For this reason I think it would be best if each class was given distinct "innate" passives. Some passive ability that would define the class; and is good for each playstyle.

    This would pave the path to allow monks to have more choice in passive abilities, without directly buffing or nerfing (well slightly) the class.

    On top of that: monks DO have the least number of skills, the largest amount of redundant skills (inner sanctuary as prime example is outshined by mantra in nearly 99% of the cases). AND the least number of passive abilities that actually change builds. (only guardian path is such a passive imo).

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