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HK's Structuring For Duels

Discussion in 'Classic' started by HegemonKhan, Dec 22, 2008. | Replies: 18 | Views: 20955

  1. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    HK's Structuring For Duels, version 2.0

    warlock, if u don't mind,

    if people like this structuring, it should probably be stickied than as an "official-standardized" dueling structure.

    maybe people can "post vote" (yes they like it) or (no they don't like it) on this thread. to decide whether it should be made "official-standardized" structuring or not and thus stickied or not. whichever (yes or no) has more "post vote" after some number of "post votes" will be how its decided, if this is a good way to do it ?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (to use boxing analogy): "weight classes" (clvl ranges) and "leagues" (LLD, MLD, HLD) for d2 duels should be:
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    clvl: character level

    LLD: low level duels
    MLD: mid level duels
    HLD: high level duels
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "LLD" "league": clvl 1-30

    clvl 09-11 "weight class"

    clvl 12-17 "weight class"

    clvl 18-23 "weight class"

    clvl 24-29 "weight class"

    clvl 30-30 "weight class"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "MLD" "league": clvl 30-60

    clvl 30-40 "weight class"

    clvl 40-50 "weight class"

    clvl 50-60 "weight class"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "HLD" "league": clvl 60-99

    clvl 60-70 "weight class"

    clvl 70-80 "weight class"

    clvl 80-90 "weight class"

    clvl 90-99 "weight class"
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    items' mods' and their lvl reqs: (for 1.12 patch plz. the newest-current patch)

    1. Level 32 is definitely a different story, since I used to have a lvl32 sword(+187% exec)/shield WW barb. -deich.

    2. 31 is the item level for prismatic items. -yohed
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  2. WarlockCC

    WarlockCC Diablo Classic Moderator

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    Just let me know where you want it in the stickies and I'll be happy to oblige. For now, I'll just sticky it rather then link to it from the stickies.
  3. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    ah, i was jsut thinking it to go with all the other info links in the sticky faqs and guides thread. but u can put it where ever u think best.

    just thought it be good idea to finally have a standardized pvp system or "structuring". not sure if everyone likes my idea of it but oh well, its been stickied already:D
  4. deichsela

    deichsela IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    HKhan, why is level 30 lld, but level 31 mld? WW will be as broken at level 31 as it is at level 30. I see and know no difference between level 30 and level 31 besides a few points in life.

    Level 32 is definitely a different story, since I used to have a lvl32 sword(+187% exec)/shield WW barb.
  5. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    it's just a term issue, but since this has become a discussion let me discuss my thinking-reasoning on these terms:

    i feel that lvl 30 skills should NOT be EXcluded from "LLD", but strict limits should be placed on it since they are the most "powerful" or highest lvl skills.

    lvl 30 skills should be "available" for "LLD" (just as they are for "MLD" and "HLD"), but as u mentioned lvl 30 skills (like ww) are quite powerful, which is why i put them into their own weight class of clvl 30-30 for "LLD". it wouldn't be fair for a lvl 30 skill (like ww) to go against a lvl 24 skill, just as its not fair for a lvl 24 skill to go against a lvl 18 skill, etc.

    if you are clvl 31-60, under my structuring u are "labeled-classifed" as "MLD".

    the only way to "LLD" ("fairly") with a lvl 30 skill (clvl 30 char) is to duel another lvl 30 skill (clvl 30 char). u can of course, always challenge higher clvls (clvl 31-60 "MLD" and clvl 61-99 "HLD")

    clvl 30 with lvl 30 skill "ww" is no different than clvl 31 with lvl 30 skill (whatever skill). u are right.

    its fair for a lvl 30 skill (clvl 30) to duel against other lvl 30 skills (clvl 30 and up)

    its NOT fair for a lvl 30 skill (clvl 30) to duel against lower lvl skills (clvl 1-29)

    maybe think of it this way, for the most part clvl 30-30 (lvl 30 skill characters) are for the most part in with the "MLD". but u may challenge another and only another clvl 30 for a "LLD" duel. if u challenge a clvl 1-29 with your clvl 30 with 30 lvl skill, it's an unfair duel.
  6. yohed

    yohed IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    31 is the item level for prismatic items (in the current patch :smug:) which gives an undoubted advantage in terms of items. This might not be relative for every build, but it is for a very good portion of them.

    Edit. Great thread by the way HK.:thumbup:



  7. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    i did NOT apply any of the item mod lvl reqs into this structuring. it would make it far too complicated and messy then.

    the structuring is based solely on fairness and simplicity with skills and clvl as best as i could envision.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    if u guys wanna add in the item mod lvl reqs into it than go ahead, but than u got to find a way to keep it simple for everyone to understand :D

    i added a last section called items' mods' and their lvl reqs. post down what you know on this thread and i'll add it into my original post (HK's structuring for duels, version 2.0, - as of now) of this thread.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ty, yohed, for saying great thread :D
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    deich:

    Level 32 is definitely a different story, since I used to have a lvl32 sword(+187% exec)/shield WW barb.
    --------
    is this for 1.12 patch ??
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2008
  8. deichsela

    deichsela IncGamers Member

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    Structuring For Duels

    What you wrote here explains why level 30 the lowest level for MLD.
    And this explains why level 30 isn't LLD.
    Hahah. Egads. Good show. :thumbsup:

    During 1.09 I used pre-LoD items to acquire the 170 str and 110 dex. Might be possible with today's items. *brainstorms*

    Edit: Yeah, it works. With regular items, the character would end up with 520 life and sport a wicked exec. Using ideal items, the life goes far higher.

    start, 30, 25
    req, 170, 110
    need, 140, 85
    items, 77, 34
    req, 63, 51

    Level 32. 32 * 5 = 160 stat points
    63 in str. 51 in dex. 114 used
    46 left for vit. 184 life
    55 life start
    +2 life/level = 62 life
    20 to life from act 3 potion.
    BO slvl 9, +1(BC)=10 = +62%
    321 plus 62%
    Total life: 520

    From helm to boots.
    0 +30 str
    1 +9 str
    2
    3 Twitchthroe +10 str, +10 dex
    4
    5 +9 dex
    6 +9 str
    7 Bladebuckle +5 str, +10 dex
    8 +9 str
    9 Tearhaunch +5 str, +5 dex



    Last edited: Dec 26, 2008
  9. Applekid

    Applekid IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    Keep in mind that for LLD, the rankings that *used to be* commonly accepted had been developed not only on level requirements for skills, but also level requirements for essential equipment. Example, the reason that 12 is broken away from 9-11 is zeal/charge, but also the use of the Angelics set. I noticed that your guide asked for a tier between 12-17, which may be undue since a character can equip twitchthroe at 16. Angelics v. Twitch... You decide!

    The LLD tiers have been fought over for ages, often broken down into microscopic increments (exaggerating of course), but hopefully this guide serves as a threshold for the return to the more "gentleman's war," so to speak, of all dueling, high and low.

    Maybe you should also consider posting certain "rules" or "taboo" of dueling-- what's acceptable, what is not. Example, running into town periodically to avoid being hit, potting, unnecessary insults, etc. Dueling used to be a majestic sport... Having since fallen from its grace. Hopefully we can resurrect its once proud name. GJ HK ;]
  10. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    i actually just started to try out dueling for my first time, so i'm actually quite new to it all and don't know all the rules and taboo's and such.

    i just read a lot of the arguing over the dueling system so i jsut made a thread that if u all want and like can be the standard for dueling.

    i just based my dueling system on what i read and common sense and simplicity.

    i do NOT know or have enough experience with all the different gear and its clvl reqs and i could never organize it neatly anyways. i have hard enough time jsut writing my posts clearly:p not the greatest writer here and my mind jumps all over the place so u readers usually have a hard time reading my posts:D

    i also don't know all the good-bad manners, rules, taboos that are out their for dueling.

    if u guys wanna contribute plz do so. this is a group project. any feedback and knowledge is totally welcome and encouraged:D
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    now that i'm thinking about it, i think there's 3 types of duels:

    1. competitive duels

    in competitive duels there are strict rules that must be followed. breaking of any such rule is a technical loss.

    2. friendly duels

    in friendly duels you are casually dueling for fun or testing out things or practicing (usually with a friend or some one who is trustful and willing to abide upon the coordinated cooperative agreed rules). you don't care what happens and aren't stresed over it. you are NOT competing or keeping score.

    3. war duels

    in war duels, anything goes. there are no rules. no bad manners. its the "jungle". it's a free for all. may the best (or best cheater or unfairest) win.

    this is probably the most common type of duel that u see. such dominant players are known as pk'ers who come and unfairly and rudely ruin a game.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
  11. Fists of War

    Fists of War IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    These days I don't really take much notice of so-called "Dueling Brackets".

    1. If you're LLD, you fight other LLDs. It might be unfair, but there really aren't enough people doing it these days to turn down someone who is 1 or 2 level brackets above you. Even if you're level 30, 31, 32 or even 35, you can still have fun duels with level 18 and 24 LLDers. If they beat you, then good for them, if they lose, then they might be inspired to upgrade their gear or try new LLDs.

    2. If you're making a regular PvP character, then you can duel with people much higher than you as you level and put gear on. This is one of the coolest things about a PvP character through the mid-levels, you're always getting better and can often come back and beat someone that had rolled over you 10 levels earlier. It may be unfair, but it's all fun, and good experience as well.

    I like your description of the last type of duels, it is a bit of a jungle when you have 7 other different builds running around, all madly trying to kill each other. When it's full of BM players, potters, NKers, people who run to town to avoid death, and come back with three friends to team you, it sucks majorly. However, when you get GM players in this type of free-for-all situation, where they actually wait until you;ve finished your current fight before attacking you, it's a ton of fun.
  12. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    all completely true. 100% agree with your entire post,

    my thread was just for finally some standardized system for what can be considered what is a "fair or even" match-up between two characters.

    but as u say, d2 and thus pvp, is dwindling, being a ~9 year old game. also, there's always teh challenge of trying some one more lvls than u. it's also hard to find people within your "group" anyways. And, when dueling u rarely care for this standardized system.

    i just threw this idea of a standard system out there, due to all the arguing i have read about duels and all the different ideas everyone has for duel systems. i made a thread that if people like it (my idea and others' contriubtions) of a duel system it can become the standard or at least a base-foundation for a standardized duel system for those who are interested.
  13. Applekid

    Applekid IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    I collect ears with my LLD nec and see the highest levels I can shamelessly destroy. :coffee:
  14. TraderScope

    TraderScope IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    How is it atm in the LLD scene, are the characters fully quest boosted from normal to hell?
  15. Fists of War

    Fists of War IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    Depending on your level of commitment and/or effort, they are normally boosted as much as possible.

    However, you can still have a bit of casual LLD with out all the bonus Q's.



  16. IsThisNamePermanent

    IsThisNamePermanent IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    Level 30 is not low level dueling, I didn't bother to read anything past original post.
  17. Fists of War

    Fists of War IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    How to respond...

    Get over it?

    You can't be that "elite" just to ignore an entire post based on one opinion that has just as many people for it as against it. No offense intended but maybe you just need to accept that everyone does not agree with you or really care about this particular issue :)
  18. squiggle

    squiggle IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    I don't like it.
  19. magnet

    magnet IncGamers Member

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    Re: HK's Structuring For Duels

    My favorite type of dueling situation [outside of casually sparring with friends] is Manner 1 vs 1, to 5. I feel that it is good test of the viability of your character and your skill at handling it effectively against an oppenent. If you can kill another player's character 5 times in a fair fight before they can do the same to you, its a good indicator that they've been bested by you. Of course, the amount of kills they get on you before you win will show how much of a match they were for you, and additional sets to 5 may be in order to sort out close matches. If I beat someone to 5 three times, though, I usually thank them for duels and excuse myself politely.

    The rules of Manner 1 vs 1 point duels [as I see them] are pretty straightforward.

    ~Any outside aid utilized by your character to heal equals a loss. This means any ablity to regain HP's that a character's skills or equipment do not naturally allow him.

    ~Returning to town equals a loss. Even if no damage has been dealt.

    ~No other characters can assist your combatant with the benefit of their skills. No enchant. No BO barb there to buff you. No Din giving auras, etc. Any such assistance constitutes a change in the nature of the match from 1 vs 1 to 2 vs 1. In most cases I will point this out if it becomes an issue and offer the other player the chance to move forward with the match without the assistance of the other character/s. If they refuse, I see it as a sign of bad sportsmanship, weakness, and an admission on their part that they feel they need an unfair advantage to compete with me. I quickly lose the desire to test my characters fairly against theirs, and politely excuse myself.

    ~Both players must be out of town and both players must have indicated their readiness to begin the round by saying "Go" before a duel can begin. If both players have not said "Go", and damage is dealt, that damage is not a legitimate product of the duel. Both players can return to Akara and the round resests.

    First to 5 wins. Rounds ending in mutual deaths are not scored.

    Thats really about it...

    Everything else is pretty much allowed, unless I'm forgetting something. Any pots you'd like to use, as long as they don't restore HP's are fair game. Any skills are fair game, whether they are overpowered against certain classes or not. Any equipment combination you wish to use is fair game....

    This includes the overkill stacking of resistances to negate/diminish the effects of elemental attacks. The way I see it, if the character you are choosing to duel with can be rendered unviable by a simple equipment adjustment by your opponent, then you either need to compensate for that loss of effectiveness through more skillful handling of your character, or accept the loss and change characters. Diablo 2 is a game that is based just as much around its item and equipment system as it is around character classes and skill points. Restricting or placing limitations on possible equipment combinations goes against the heart of the game..


    uh-oh...girlfriend home...gotta look like I've been doing something more productive than ranting about this stupid game to the void.

    later,

    ~cody

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