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Hello + requesting a bit of MF/progress advice

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Nehpets, Nov 12, 2013. | Replies: 15 | Views: 1138

  1. Nehpets

    Nehpets IncGamers Member

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    Hullo, new guy here.

    You guys are great, you know. I've played D2 quite a lot over the years, and after the distasteful launch of d3 I decided to come back and stick to D2 (forever ;)), and you, along with arreat summit, and other nice compendiums and forums are almost always alive in my web browser from a day to day basis. So, thank you for existing.

    Onto business. What I have: 1.13c, RWM, GoMule, and a poorly (emphasis on poor) constructed bowazon with FA as her primary attack (I love quaffing mana potions.). ~120% MF. Lvl 56.

    Currently, I've managed to get myself to NM diablo and kill him after much valk dancing. I feel like I'm not strong enough to progress onward to Baal and beyond, so I started doing NM mephisto runs. I die occasionally, and my Merc (A2Might) dies slightly more frequently due to having only a semi-decent insight and a poor 250 defense shirt. The process is long and slow, yet do-able.

    What I would like to ask is this: should i try killing other things as a way to get a little bit better gear? andy perhaps or some area clearing... or is there some minor things I can do to maximize my meph run effectiveness. I feel like I should just hold out until I get a lucky shaftstop drop, but I've never really had an endgame character before and am unfamiliar with the higher level stuff (despite the hours I drop into perusing MF and treasure class number crunching threads).

    Thanks for reading.
     
  2. khuzgan

    khuzgan IncGamers Member

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    If you haven't already, I'd suggest you invest some points in valkyrie. When you are low on gear she's a real lifesaver for you and for your merc.

    FA isn't exactly the most efficient for boss running, even if she can do it fine in nm. It's in general easier to dominate areas with low cold res with her setup. And given that you could kill diablo, there really should not be a problem for you to progress some in act 5, Maybe not up to kill baal directly, but definitely to clear some areas and gain a few levels. And once you've done that, kiling baal as well should not be too hard either.

    Also, try improving your and your merc's gear a bit with some of the dirt cheap runewords if you feel unsafe and/or ineffective. And if you lack the low runes yo need, run nm countess or travincal council a few times on a higher player setting.
     
  3. Nehpets

    Nehpets IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, I've got my trusty valkyrie (Also made a crappy spirit sword on switch for her. Can't hurt, right?). She is the only reason I managed to kill NM diablo in the first place.

    Are any NM areas worth running and are comparable to slow meph runs? Diablo himself took somewhere between 20-30 minutes of dancing and potion slurping. I guess it's worth the grueling slog past Baal and into Hell Pit runs (if I can even do stuff like that)?

    I don't understand what you mean by dirt cheap runewords. All the +ED% body armor runewords require at least one medium rune which means hundreds of NM countess runs (knowing my track record, I decided to run up an Amn for Edge runeword back in normal...). Is p5 trav comparable to NM countess at all? I've never heard of them being good rune drops before.
     
  4. Delsy

    Delsy IncGamers Member

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    Hello.

    I've played an untwinked amazon recently so here are some tips.

    You are nearing the Hell difficulty, so I would look for a secondary attack. As strong physical bows are hard to come by in an untwinked play, I would go for charged strike and lighning fury. Shop some 2 amazon/3 javelin throwing spears at Anya (look only for throwing spears/harpoons, as other javelins have small quantity). Ideal shield at this stage would be Rhyme in a bone shield (shop for the shield at Drognan in Normal difficulty), but if you don't have the runes, any random shield will do. For bow I would use any random amazon bow with 1+ to bow skills. This specific build is called the Fishyzon, you can find a thourough guide for it made by Nightfish (altough I would put 1 point into Valkyrie).

    Another thing I noticed, you have too much MF at this stage, which usually comes at the cost of offense and survivability. I would disregard MF completely and go for the latter. Survivability being composed of resists and life, offense from +skills and ias. The point is, when you pack a lot of MF at the cost of before mentioned, your killing speed is usualy slower, making all the MF counterproductive. The point I would start looking for MF is, when the play becomes smooth. Then carefuly putting on some MF equipment, while maintaining the smoothness.

    I've played like this up until I reached Pindleskin in Hell. For the most part, It was smooth. Lucky Kelpie Snare find sure made it easier, but the merc still died a lot. So, maybe this gives you some ideas. Have a nice day.
     
  5. Nehpets

    Nehpets IncGamers Member

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    I've heard hybrid amazons have a considerably easier time than bowazons, however, I decided to be a pure bowazon focusing on FA so I won't be deviated into tosserzon (at least this time 'round). As for sacrificing kill effectiveness for MF, I'm not sure I agree so much. I mean I've always been kind of lack luster in the killing department (very bad luck with gambles etc), apart from most of my damage (FA) not being physical and not so reliant on attack speed, I don't believe having this much MF is hurting me significantly unless I actually managed to get some half decent gear (which is why I'm so interested in running some bosses or something).

    As for secondary attack, I'm working on Strafe as well (although I think I'll stop a few points off max). In nightmare I rarely run into any cold immunes, and If I do they generally get dismembered by my merc who is thankfully not completely useless (valk is shining a bit too).

    I got lucky with a Tal's Mask drop on p3 durance3 off one of the unique council guards, so now I'm slowly but surely running chaos a bunch of times to get that pesky L67 so my merc can finally stand toe to toe with the big boys.

    Once that is all out of the way I'll figure out the best area for me to do MF runs in NM again while I get my physical damage up to scratch (as well as merc armor) before moving on to Hell, if I don't decide to try early Pit runs anyway. I still don't like how tedious it is to work on getting a Ko or slightly higher...
     
  6. khuzgan

    khuzgan IncGamers Member

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    Well, the +ED% is really not helpful for you at this stage anyways so why bother with them? What I'm talking about is things like:

    Insight for the merc (made in a decent polearm, keep upgrading as you find better bases),
    Black for the 40% crushing blow, will make boss fighting alot easier if combined with a 3s kite shield filled with perfect diamonds,
    Lore for the 30 lightres and +1 skill, which always comes in handy for elemental dmg chars,
    Melody, made in a amazon bow can boost your FA up to 6 skill lvls, runes are low-mid range. Not dirt cheap, but easy to get if dedicated,
    Treachery, both for you and merc, same as for melody with acessability,

    Just like in hell, council runs in nm can give you alot of runes (and crafting material and gold to gamble for as well), even if hell countess or lk is by far better. In nm the council members can drop up to Um.
    You can probably be quite successful hunting those Ko and Um runes runes in LK nm as well, but not many spend any energy on it since if you can do the same in hell it's by far more rewarding.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  7. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    Anything is better than this :)
     
  8. logoutzero

    logoutzero IncGamers Member

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    If you can get to Anya, you could run NM Pindle well with FA and a pinch of Pierce. Not sure if he has any goodies, but can be a solid way to grind some EXP safely. Also, Eldritch, can boost you quite fast.
     
  9. Darkthrone

    Darkthrone IncGamers Member

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    I'm going to offer a little change of pace.

    I don't know if you prefer to play untwinked or not, but if you're not against getting items from other characters, then I suggest doing what I did when I began my single player Diablo II career: build a sorceress.

    She relies on her skills and not on her gear like many other character classes. She's also very versatile and you can run Mephisto, Pindleskin, and other areas with ease even with low equipment. Over time you'll start to pick up decent gear and magic find gear, and then you can start running Hell Mephisto and get even better gear and then in snowballs on from there. All my "wealth" has come from her. She's my main character, so she has had the most attention, but that's because she's the bread winner amongst my characters. I have found a lot of items that I plan on putting onto my necromancer, barbarian, and amazon.

    That's not to say other character classes can't magic find or clear level 85 areas, but if you have next to nothing and are struggling with gear, I think she's a good solution.

    If you prefer to keep on with your amazon, then there's plenty of good advice already offered in this thread. Good luck! :)
     
  10. Nehpets

    Nehpets IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, I have Insight on my A2Might merc currently, planning to upgrade when I progress a little more.
    I thought A2 mercs could only use spear and polearm class, am I wrong?
    I did'nt even think of hat runewords, thanks for that!
    I think the hardest part is finding a suitably socketted +3 zon bow, but I'll have a look see.
    I guess the Fade is really excellent along with the IAS?

    I'll give it a good try, at the very least it's a fresh change from the same countess run over and over.

    Currently running Chaos Sanctuary on p5 (Without killing Diablo). The xp is great and I don't die as long as I'm quick with freezing the uglies.

    Yeah, I am determined to keep my amazon self-sufficient. I don't know if anybody can relate, but letting a different character do all the MF'ing (and much easier too) then simply giving items to my zon seems like a betrayal to her. I want her to be able to do stuff on her own.
     
  11. khuzgan

    khuzgan IncGamers Member

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    Nope, you're absolutely right. what i suggest is that you wield the mace yourself on big hp bosses only, that way you will kill them way faster than if you whittle away at them with a weak elemental attack. Whenever you feel your bow attack does sufficient damage to kill bosses fairly fast and safe, you no longer need it,

    And regarding melody, yes fiding a +3 skill bow with the right amount of sockets is a pain at times, but you can always make it in any bow at all (ofc more +skill is better, but the +3 from a non-ama bow is still helpful) and replace it as soon as you find a decent base with more +skill.
     
  12. Nehpets

    Nehpets IncGamers Member

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    Things have been going along quite a bit better now. Managed to score a vipermagi to replace my spirit shroud, cubed some sockets for lore/black/splendor and also some Ptopz armor. I did end up giving Baal good talking to, but Hell just kicks my fluffy tail anyway, so no chance of pit runs or doing hell countess for an easy Ko rune (melody is looking further and further away).

    Fortunately enough, I can do andy in about 3 minutes including running to her (crappy 40% run boots), meph in 4 or 5 minutes (oh god the stygian dolls), and a pindle in half a minute because why not. All with about 300% MF and on p1 since p3/5 seems to take too long. Personally I feel like I'm doing MF runs decently now, but it is a little disheartening to see so many normal set items. It looks like I'm going to continue doing this until I catch a break and get something to help me survive Hell.

    To be honest, I'm just so sick of running NM countess and trav has netted me all of one amn rune in about 75 runs, so cubing Ko is out of the question until my patience returns somewhat.

    Any lurkers still here?
     
  13. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    You should be running Nightmare Baal. Get a nice layout (You want a layout where you happen to travel through a decent chunk of the levels without doubling back or getting frustrated trying to clear the whole thing). Keep the player count set to what you can handle, again, without frustration. There's a lot of monsters on the way and the minion waves themselves drop pretty good (charms, runes, etc). As a bonus, the extra levels gained here are going to help a lot more when you finally do break into Hell difficulty.

    I'm not sure why anyone suggested making a "black" thingy. A "strength" runeword in a dagger is going to be much faster in applying Crushing Blow for an Amazon, and will afford a much faster block rate (You've got a "rhyme" bone shield, right?).

    Figure out how to paste your item and player printout so nobody has to guess what you're working with.
     
  14. khuzgan

    khuzgan IncGamers Member

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    Well, lets do the math on this one. Given that none of the two runewords affect AR, we don't need to take chance to hit monsters into account, since the terms will cancel each other when comparing the crushing blow ratio for the weapons. Assuming no other source of ias, we get 11 FPA from a Black flail (12 FPA base, 11 FPA at 11% ias, which is supplied by the 15% ias from black).

    Over the course of 10s, we get (10x25)/11 attacks multiplied by the chance of CB -> 250/11*0,4 which is 9,0909..
    From a Strength dagger we get 10 FPA with no ias, -> 250/25*0,25 = 6,25. This results in 9,0909.../6.25 =1.454545... times as much CB from black as from strength.

    Given 20% extra ias from other sources, we get 10 vs 9 frames instead and have 10/6,9444...=1,44, close to the same ratio.
    Of course, if Black is made in a slower mace things will change in favor of a Strength dagger.

    Now, there is a point in you having alot faster block rate with a dagger than a swinging weapon, and if you get hit too often, causing block locks, the dagger will win hands down. This is quite uncommon vs single targets though, especially those that seem to prefer casting their abilities to hitting you (Mephisto, Diablo, Baal) and they are also highly likely to try to hit your valkyrie.
     
  15. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    I'll agree that they're both similar in function, but not form: the 'Zon's swingin' animation is a bit goofy. There's more to it, too.

    The rune cost.

    This the op already seems frustrated trying to break into Hell, and building "Black" at the cost of Thul + Io + Nef seems like a step in the wrong direction, especially when they could get a lot more use out of saving the runes and cubing towards a Lum for a "Smoke" armor or saving even more for a Ko for "Melody". Neither "Strength" nor "Black" are going to be a silver bullet in crushing Hell, so why pay for more than necessary for the same effect?

    Granted, they've already spent the runes now, so there's not much point... but it's the idea of it that bugged me.

    I'm a bit worried about my rune cost argument. It seems true that Io is worth more than Amn, because you have to cube a stash full of Amn to get to Io, but you can also end up in the situation where you're either one Io or one Amn away from cubing to the next rune you need. Perhaps I need to drink some more coffee.
     
  16. Delsy

    Delsy IncGamers Member

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    Don't be worried MYK. Amn rune is definitely much easier to come by than Io.

    Anyway, in both cases, Amazon will have terrible chance to hit. Without doing any calculations, I think fully synergized FA will do good enough not to consider both melee options. Also bear in mind, that Nahpets wants to stick to the bow :p.
     

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