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Hell Skeleton King

Discussion in 'Demon Hunter' started by Nèmein, Aug 14, 2012. | Replies: 32 | Views: 5348

  1. Nèmein

    Nèmein IncGamers Member

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    So I just spent about 2 hours getting taught many lessons by Leoric. It's likely that this is due to a lack of skill (or w/e you wish to call it), but its possible that its a gear/loadout issue also.

    Well I'll let you decide

    Stats (52 DH)
    13.8k Life
    2500 Damage


    Loadout (Actives + Passives)
    EF-Covering
    Cluster Arrow-Shooting Stars
    EA-Screaming Skull
    Prep-Battle Scars
    Caltrops-Jagged Spikes
    SS-Lingering Fog

    Steady Aim
    Grenadier
    TA

    A few words...I ran into an invulnerable minions group early in Act 1 that prompted me to switch from my preferred Razor Disk Chakram to Cluster Arrow (worked great btw). The switch prompted me to pick up a passive to synergize with the aforementioned Cluster Arrow selection. Interestingly, I haven't seen the giant grenade drop one time while dying against...anyone. Whlie it makes little difference I admit I was dissapointed as I was looking forward to telling the filth to bleed on my way out. In any event its been a change of pace and I haven't switch back to my normal loadout.

    I'm 2xHXB about 125 DPS each wearing a fairly super crappy Thief's Hood (59 Intel, 3% Life, 9%MF, socket) with a Square Topaz in it now since it seems like I'll be farming Act 1 for a while until either I level up my skills or my gear (both?) or acquire enough mats to go gamble at the smithy again. But perhaps there is something very obvious that I'm missing (L2P is a viable response to this). If there is a thread I've overlooked pertaining to "expected values" feel free to point me in the direction. In the meantime I'll start a WD I'm curious how it plays.

    Apologies for length and thanks in advance.



    tldr; Hell SK kicking my behind. 13.8k life 2.5k damage no SS passive. Is it my gear or me?
  2. Virility

    Virility IncGamers Member

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    I do not find fault in the way you have set up your skills. Are you over whelmed by the spawned adds? Does Leoric take most of your life with one swing? Are you running out of hatred at the wrong times with nothing left to burst down Leoric? Is there a problem with your disc running out as you dance around the room pecking away at Leoric's health?
  3. lanceuppercut

    lanceuppercut IncGamers Member

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    i'm not sure there is a particular need for SS for the SK, his teleport is telegraphed enough and you shouldn't be the in position to get caught out enough to need a emergency SS? In that situation for an escape skill, I'd prefer vault (as you're using TA anyway) for the extra distance over a SS as well as it using less disc.

    If you're getting your *** handed to you, stick a purple gem into that helm for a bit of extra +life!
  4. Nèmein

    Nèmein IncGamers Member

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    The adds have been giving me some trouble. I find that the archers are hitting me hard. I'm running 35 disc and am not having too much trouble with it and hatred is good even with Cluster. I'm usually out of heals before I realize it (having burned my prep heal my pot and my templar heal) and dead before I can run away from/burn down enough adds to get a health orb. If Leoric gets the final blow its bc I've lost focus while dancing away from the adds. If I handle the adds better this will go smoother.

    Is it my imagination or are you vulnerable during the actual vault? I had always assumed invulnerability during the vault but anecdotally I believe I'm most definitely wrong. I should say that I've always been a vault user (rattling roll or tumble) and am still not super comfortable with the timing of SS (always a bit late...still taking the hit). I feel that is most likely my biggest issue at the moment. It seems that every champ/elite mob I have run into in Hell has had Fast and Mortar affixes. Coupled with suffering in the crypts searching for the crown made me decide to switch to SS.

    Also I guess I should admit that I find myself trying to do full runs with one loadout. This, as you might imagine, is due to learning about NV stacks and trying to train myself for that eventuality. Switching in Impale and Vault are probably two very wise decisions..but then my imaginary NV stacks will be gone.

    Perhaps Act 1 Hell is a bit too early to be worrying about things such as NV stacks.

    I also admit to being a bit hard on myself for sticking with what works instead of trying out new things. I've literally never use Strafe (probably won't), have never tried RoV (looks cool though) and even though I tried to incorporate Spike Traps (which I love btw) as a way to deal with the adds...it just didn't feel right. Since this is a discussion for another time I'll simply end with the conclusion that along with all else that's been stated perhaps my biggest mistake was taking Leoric too lightly since he'd been a breeze in NM and I thought I'd experiment on him.

    Thanks for your responses.


  5. lanceuppercut

    lanceuppercut IncGamers Member

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    for me, SS doesn't offer enough uptime to warrant that amount of disc usage so all SS gets used for is literally breaking CC, my timing sucks too much to use to protect from damage and I don't trust myself enough in HC to get the timing right every time, as the DH is squishy as hell, I don't intend to get into situations where taking damage during a vault is an option.

    +fast things got you down? caltrop/TG is brilliant for making a bit of time whilst you vault/tumble the hell outta there!

    in inferno/a1 and I run with:
    ef/cf
    impale/over pen
    caltrop/TG
    vault/tumble
    SS/lingering
    gloom/SP (use prep if you don't have nat's set though)
    tac advantage
    steady aim
    archery
  6. Nèmein

    Nèmein IncGamers Member

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    You are my idol. I've had this amount of health for some time now and since coming back from playing a barb for a bit I need to get in the mindset of just never being in a perilous position. I kinda joked around a bit in NM because I could but its time to get serious.

    In other news, I've been using Jagged for the modest damage but the immobilization is attractive. Will go hunt down some fast packs and see how I do. Then try my hand at the Leoric again.

    Thanks.


  7. Shadow Hado

    Shadow Hado IncGamers Member

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    Personally, this is what I run in Inferno A1, and other than Impale / Grievous Wounds, I'm pretty sure you have access to all of them.

    Hungering Arrow / Devouring Arrow
    Elemental Arrow / Ball Lightning
    Impale / Grievous Wounds
    Preparation / Focused Mind
    Vault / Tumble
    Smoke Screen / Lingering Fog

    Tactical Advantage
    Archery
    Sharpshooter


    Now, I don't know what your gear is, so I can't say whether I recommend something like this or not, but I can tell you that this build fits my playstyle pretty damn well; I personally prefer freedom of movement and "stutterstep" fighting. I think that's a big key to success with DH, and well, all of the chars in D3: making your build fit you. I'm hoping the options for this are increased with the skill changes, but we will see.

    Anywho, enough of the tangent, and on to the skills. I would at least suggest swapping Caltrops for Vault / Tumble, and maybe even swapping Screaming Skull for Ball Lightning for the adds. Even if it's for just this fight and you decide to return to your build immediately after. Vault will help you escape his Teleport Slashes for a much lower cost than SS, and Ball Lightning is great at taking out the adds because its "hitbox" is enormous, and the projectiles continue through every enemy they hit.

    Other than that, just remember that he always uses his Teleport Slash immediately after the 2nd "Raise Dead" animation, and typically right after he does his "3-Swing Combo." For the adds: focus on archers first if possible, and again remember to stop shooting them and Vault and sprint right after the 2nd group appears. Personally, I pound him with Devouring Arrow until he summons adds, destroy them quickly with Ball Lightning, and repeat.

    Hope this helps!
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  8. Vanadin

    Vanadin IncGamers Member

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    If you have Life on Hit, Caltrops/Jagged Spikes becomes a godsend. [In the Arreat Crater, those annoying scorpions become mini-health globes, healing you as they commit suicide. :) ]

    Another thing that helps a lot is finding something with crowd control attributes: I have a belt with 4% chance to freeze, so every so often Leoric just stands there like a fool while I get to take shots at him.

    One other note: you might want to check on this: can EF hit the same target three times on one attack? If not, then you're wasting 2/3 of the damage from it.
  9. lanceuppercut

    lanceuppercut IncGamers Member

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    your gotta get into the mindset of being a squishy class and don't let them get anywhere near you in the first place. TG may seem underwhelming as I did think when changing from JS which I used until A1 inferno but being able to stop 1 thing from hitting you for potentially fatal damage is a godsend.

    definitely used more as an escape skill combined with vault if anything, I still don't feel all that comfortable with +fast but it let's me get away from them fairly painlessly.

    my skill choices may not seem the best overall but everything has its place or reason to how i play my build so i don't need to adjust much, for example impale looks awful but for me, it's a good way to hurt invulnerable elites (apparently they're gone in 104 anyway) quickly.

    also my skills are heavily defensive as I'm playing HC.


  10. lanceuppercut

    lanceuppercut IncGamers Member

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    I've never really had problem with SK's adds, as soon as they appear they get impaled and if more of them are in the firing line, we'll it means that overpenetration has done its job letting me concentrate on the big boss.

    I prefer impale as the projectile gets to where it needs to be, quickly. cluster for me, is too expensive on the hatred, slow and limited range. much like shadow hado has posted, I prefer mobility in my DH and always try to keep things at arms length.


  11. Shadow Hado

    Shadow Hado IncGamers Member

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    Oooo that's a good one too: Impale / Overpenetration would probably do well for Nèmein at SK, and probably throughout the entire Act. Faster and more damage than Ball Lightning, and while it does have a MUCH smaller hitbox than BL, it still has a greater chance to clear the mobs faster and in less shots. It could be very helpful in getting rid of his archer problem.

    I mean, I know I use it with a different Rune, but that's because of my Crit Dmg and Crit Chance modifiers. It's kinda crazy to have somewhat "average gear," and occasionally see hits for 300-400k. ^ ^


  12. lanceuppercut

    lanceuppercut IncGamers Member

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    I'm guessing you're using GW, the only hesistation I have about anything that is not overpenetration for my impale is that I don't need minions getting in the way and taking the hit (as impale is my only hatred spender).

    I've used overpen since getting it, it's not moved off my bar at all for the reliability of a long range 100% piercing 250% damage strike. A super high crit is nice but not if something gets in the way of what i intended that shot for, to die.


  13. Nèmein

    Nèmein IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the input!

    I gave SK a shot again and I'm truly dissapointed with Cluster Arrow. The range is less than I would prefer and although the 3 cluster burst is good, it in no way clears the room well enough to give me time to gain any hatred back to use again. I feel like I'm finishing mobs of with EF instead of them being burnt down by the 3xcluster burst. Furthermore, while the rockets hit for good damage I can't figure out if they have a pattern to their tracking (urns instead of mobs?). I was stuck on BL for a long time using it for groups and supplementing with Razor Disk. I have found that Screaming Skull while fun isn't as useful as I would have expected since the fear appears to break on damage. I have only used impale on bosses and would probably fit now. Thinking of giving Frost Arrow a try since I've never used it.

    I should say the battle was good and the error that killed me was my own. But I agree that overpenetration will likely suit me fine throughout the act. It would free up the grenadier spot again and still be less hatred intensive. I suppose I could pick up archery although with my very low crit chance (believe I'm still 5%...oh how I wish dex gave a bonus to crit% but perhaps that is old school thinking on my part) it's not likely to do much.

    I have a more general purpose in this post. I have and will continue to listen to the council of the boards and those more experienced/progressed than myself. But I feel compelled to ask this: Has anyone who has gone through this with selffound gear (I'm including crafting in this as I suppose others do as well) found that the "old ways" are still viable for gear hunting at this level. Meaning, are folks farming Act4 NM through and up to Act 1 Hell SK and getting the gear they need or are they just playing the lottery and making it work with whatever they find. I have no desire to turn this into a D2 v D3 thread so please take that into account with your responses, but I am comfortable killing NM Diablo and all elites in Act 1 until I either a) get the gear I want or b) acquire enough mats/gold to craft what I need from smithy/jeweler. Of course this means redoing the quests and I don't care at all (I rather enjoy my male DH's voice work). Since I will not use the AH I'm just wondering if others have had any experience here.

    I'm not sure if linking my profile is good behavior here so I won't do it unless it's okay'd by a mod in case a closer look at my character will alter your viewpoint.

    addendum: Two things. First, I'm certain I can put Leoric down with what I have right now. If I get out of this trying new loadouts because its Act 1 mindset and go to the B&B boss killers (impale/overpen + EA/BL) I'm sure I'll be fine. Indeed, he can be killed with what I'm using now.
    Second, I have the goal of taking a DH through hardcore once this one hits 60, so I really do need to become more careful. That is also the reason I've stuck so hard with EF/covering as it seems to be far and away the best for HC.
  14. Shadow Hado

    Shadow Hado IncGamers Member

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    I have a rather lengthy post incoming (as is typical of me lol,) but I just wanted to say that I'm 99.9% sure that you can post a link to your profile with no qualms. I mean, people post links to stuff all the time, and even add pics or videos, so I really don't see the harm in it at all. If you still aren't sure or are uncomfortable with it, just post your Battle ID, and we can use that to find your profile.
  15. Nèmein

    Nèmein IncGamers Member

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    Fair enough. I know there can sometimes be post requirements before boards allow links etc.
    In any event here ya go: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Nèmein-1385/hero/6220547


  16. Shadow Hado

    Shadow Hado IncGamers Member

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    Yay, my 36th Post! 36 is my favorite number, lol. I'm such a little kid sometimes. :D

    Yep, I'm using Impale / GW. My whole build is posted on page 1 of this thread, actually. I typically use Devouring Arrow for single target and Ball Lightning for multiple targets, and Impale is usually the "fight starter," or something that I will use if I REALLY need a specific target to go down. To be perfectly honest, I used Impale / Overpenetration pretty much as soon as I got it up until I put my current build together.

    Also, to be fair, Impale / GW is my "miscellaenous skill" in my build. What I mean is that I don't have a specific skill for that slot in my build right now. While I've pretty much set the other 5 skills in stone for now, the 6th skill keeps changing periodically. I've tried a few different things so far (Multishot, Caltrops, etc.) and Impale just happens to be the current cycle, lol. I just couldn't figure out what that last slot should be, and it's now been over a month since I've played my DH. I planned on trying out Gloom, Cluster Arrow, and a few others, but here's my feelings / my opinions on the skills I've mentioned so far as related to my build:

    Multishot - great potential, but currently just not worth it.

    Caltrops - seems like a good idea, but the snare seems lackluster in Inferno, and I don't like spending Discipline on non-Vault/SS skills.

    Impale/GW - Insane potential for single target damage, and it's not uncommon for my Crit Chance to be at a high % after having to run around / run away for a bit.

    Cluster Arrow - Too much Hatred. I've actually never used this skill for long periods of time, and because of that I still want to go back to it and give it a fair shot.

    Gloom - Again, I don't want to spend Discipline that isn't for Vault/SS, especially that much Discipline. I already have a Lot of LoH (I think around 1k?), and I currently regenerate (on my MF gear, anyways) 2200 hp / second. Also, I don't see another rune for Shadow Power that is worth mentioning.

    Companion / Spider - Gah I HATE spiders. Anywho, I tried this out for a bit, and it actually seemed kinda decent, but with big groups it doesn't snare all of them and the spider gets squashed anyways.

    Sentry - Haven't put a lot of time into this yet, but 15% dmg reduction (the rune I would use) doesn't seem like much. Costs Discipline too.

    Spike Trap - Haven't tried this yet, but I hear it's good, and there's multiple runes I would like to try out. Does Scatter cost 90 Hatred since you drop all three at once?

    Chakram - I really didn't like the pattern these flew, but maybe I just need to try a different rune?
    Rapid Fire - This might be usable, but to be honest I don't ever stand still if I can help it, and that alone makes the Hatred cost not worth it for me.

    So yeah, I really have no idea what to use in my 6th slot yet. Impale / GW has been nice at times, but it just doesn't feel like the best skill for my final slot.

    Anywho, sorry if I'm derailing the thread by talking about MY build, but I thought that by expressing my opinions on a multitude of skills, that it would also help Nèmein to look at the overall "feel" of his build, and find skills that better suit his playstyle.




    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  17. Nèmein

    Nèmein IncGamers Member

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    You bring up a good point about the overall "feel". I've pretty much have not had to worry about it that much but if I had to say what my overall feel has been I would say its been start hitting with EF, drop caltrops for damage and LOH (although I have a paltry 13 at the moment), dance around with vault and prep and shoot ball lightnings at everything and chip away with razor disk chakram (which I think is the best of the runes).

    There are still a few that I have never used (shadow power, turrets and companions come to mind). But I feel like until I encountered a real challenge, that I wouldn't truly know what my playstyle was. Perhaps this is that moment.

    update: SK down! There were a few close calls (I accidentally removed HA from my skill bar midfight:yikes:) . In the end, I changed a few things around.
    Switched HA/devouring for EF (worked surprisingly well on the groups...of course it was far superior for Leoric focus)
    Switched Impale/overpen for Cluster
    Switched EA/Frost for Screaming Skull (still not sure this was better than BL but the projectile is faster and it tracks upon fragmentation pretty well)
    Defensives reverted back to my NM build
    Prep/Battle Scars
    Caltrops/Jagged Edge (I REALLY need more LOH)
    Vault/Tumble

    I found myself being hatred starved for the first time...ever. Wondering if picking up the hawk companion is necessary.
    Thanks to everyone involved. Is it crazy that I want to immediately fight him again just to be sure I really got him down?
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  18. Adeyj

    Adeyj IncGamers Member

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    Congrats on clearing him.

    I played self found until hell Izzy & just couldn't progress at that point.
    I bought a Balefire caster of all things & smashed him up no problems at that point.
    Spike trap scatter costs just 30 and offers the most damage to hatred spend going.
    Also I find it hilarious...placing those 3 nice booby traps under stuff before you start shooting..... Then BOOM!
  19. deya

    deya IncGamers Member

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    Soloed Inferno SK like 48 hours after initial release of the game, with super crappy gear. I had to skip like 80% of the packs because I got my face kicked in by pretty much anything.

    SK however is luckily one of the bosses in this game who you can beat without taking hit at all, regardless of how much you have damage.

    Pay attention to teleport attack and when you learn to time it right, you can Vault and he'll never hit you. Move around and snipe archers (he'll kill those melee skellys), dodge teleport attacks and you're set.

    //edit, didn't read to the 2nd page, Cgz on taking him down. :)
  20. Nèmein

    Nèmein IncGamers Member

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    This is what did the trick in the end. Once I focused on the pattern and not why I couldn't burn everybody down at will his tell just jumped out and our repeat encounter was one-sided.
    As far as loadout is concerned (I dislike referring to it as a "build"...did anyone else play The Matrix Online around here?) switching from the underwhelming Cluster Arrow to Impale was the difference maker. Coming from primarily being a Chakram/Razor Disk user I'm quite accustomed to being precise with my enemy selections and button clicks. Impale simply reinforces that as a fast higher damaging Razor Disk w/o the end loop around and glowing purple dead bodies. It allowed me to pick out and eliminate archers in a way that Cluster could not.

    FWIW, the loadout at the present moment is:

    Hungering Arrow/Devouring
    Impale/Overpenetration
    Vault/Tumble
    SS/Special Recipe
    Prep/Battle Scars
    Shadow Power/Gloom

    That last one has been dynamically changing, although after running into a + waller electrified illusionist (maybe?) pack while in one of the caves in the Act 1 i must say it coupled with a SS helped me survive enemies closing until I could figure out where to vault so perhaps it will stay.

    Thanks again everyone...hopefully I'll be able to help someone else in the future.

    I'm going to try to keep up my selffound quest. This for some reason is important to me. Who knows why I used to love controlling the enchanting materials and tailoring market back in my WoW days. Still, so far I've heard up to Hell Izzy so that's the next goal thanks for that :)


    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012

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