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Frenzy Q's

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Clervis, Oct 10, 2012. | Replies: 9 | Views: 2364

  1. Clervis

    Clervis IncGamers Member

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    I'm trying to make the most out of my SP Frenzy Barb, but I'm not sure that I understand the mechanics of this skill after all this time. It appears that which weapon you have on your main hand affects swing speed, at least according to the Attack Speed Calculator. This makes me wonder if weapon range matters, too. Is it possible that if you approach a monster with a longer main hand weapon, that your off hand won't be able to reach it? So here are my questions:

    Should I keep my fastest weapon on my main hand?
    Is the "main hand" the left weapon slot (or does it matter which one is equipped first)?
    Can disparate weapon ranges between weapons hurt my attack power?

    Thanks.
  2. Krupa

    Krupa IncGamers Member

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    frenzy consists out of two attacks. the speed calc is correct for those times, where the first attack hits. for the times where the first ones misses, the calc is wrong. for those the ias on the off-hand weapon is taken into account

    the faster weapon should be your main weapon.
    the one equipped first will be the main hand one, but switching to the 2nd weapon slot and back the left one becomes your main hand
    your two weapons should have the same range or your main hand should have a shorter range (not 100% sure here, as i remember reading something about the range not counting, but i might mix something up)
  3. Clervis

    Clervis IncGamers Member

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    Graci.....
  4. hubb

    hubb IncGamers Member

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    Here you go:
    A note: When I talk about slow and fast weapons I mean only in terms of their base weapon speed (WSM), not IAS on the weapon.

    When your primary weapon is in the left slot (above gloves), it doesn't matter which weapon base goes where - WSM is simply averaged. When you pick up and put down the left slot weapon however, the right slow weap (above your boots) becomes the primary weapon, and combined WSM is calculated by subtracting left slow WSM from right slow WSM and adding that to the average. I.e.:

    AWSM = (right slow WSM + left slot WSM)/2 + (right slow WSM – left slot WSM)

    This is WSM-bugging. If you've got a very slow weapon in the left slot and a very fast one in the right this can potentially speed up your attack by quite a bit: A [10]/[-30] setup has a combined WSM of [-10], while with WSM-bugging this is [-50]. This is true for Double Swing and the single-weap attacks like Conc and Berserk.

    With Frenzy that subtraction is always factored into WSM, so you're better off equipping a slower weapon above gloves. It doesn't have that great an impact as with the other attacks, but it can still help:
    Code:
    With fully charged level 24-26 Frenzy (granting 44 SIAS):
    
    [10]/[-30]
    0 IAS: 13 frames
    3 IAS: 12 frames
    16 IAS: 11 frames
    65 IAS: 10 frames
    
    [-30]/[10]
    0 IAS: 16 frames
    10 IAS: 15 frames
    20 IAS: 14 frames
    38 IAS: 13 frames
    58 IAS: 12 frames
    89 IAS: 11 frames
    249 IAS: 10 frames
    
    I've tried to figure out what happens with WSM-bugging here but gave up.

    Here as some breakpoints you might find handy:

    Code:
    With fully charged level 24-26 Frenzy (granting 44 SIAS):
    
    
    WSM	WSM	IAS needed for
    L-slot	R-slot	5.5	5 frames per attack
    ------------------------------
    10	10	89	152
    10	0	63	109
    0	0	63	109
    5	-5	52	92
    10	-10	44	92
    0	-10	42	78
    -10	-10	42	78
    10	-30	16	65
    5	-30	14	58
    0	-30	15	54
    -10	-30	14	44
    -30	-30	13	35
  5. zaphodbrx

    zaphodbrx IncGamers Member

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    I can vouch for wsm bugging being quite effective with oath/death sword combo. Oath is fast, death is slow, so put death above glove slot.
  6. Clervis

    Clervis IncGamers Member

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    Wow, that's really complicated, but it gives me something to think about. I found these:

    EIAS = [120 * (∑IAS item - IAS 2nd )/(120 + ∑IAS item - IAS 2nd )]
    Frenzy acceleration formula
    V inc = 70 + (WSM 1st + WSM 2nd )/2 + ∑SIAS + EIAS
    fpa = {256 * 17 / [256 * V inc / 100]} / 2

    I couldn't really get them to work, and they don't has wias bug, but you could see how to modify them. Right now I have a knout [-10] with 20 ias and a jagged star [10] with 50 ias, 20 ias from gloves, anyone want to venture what my fpa tables would be?
  7. Clervis

    Clervis IncGamers Member

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    I took another look at this calculator and it seems to distinguish between left and right weapon as well as primary and secondary. If you put the slower weapon (in terms of ias mods) in the secondary but left hand spot, and your quicker weapon in the primary and right hand, then it shows a significant speed improvement. So, I'm thinking the calculator is correct. Furthermore, the build I'm working on (Grief PB and Death CS) shows that additional IAS isn't necessary--good to know.

    So I tried experimenting around with is using a Lightsabre [-30 WSM/20 IAS] and Swordguard [10 WSM/0 IAS]. Sure enough there were palpable differences in each category:
    P/L:SG S/R:LS--->Slowest
    P/L:LS S/R:SG--->Moderate
    P/R:LS S/L:SG (WSM-bugged)--->Fastest

    Here's one area of concern though. If you switch weapons, and come back, your primary weapon is automatically set to the left slot. So if you WSM-bug it you'll go from the Fastest set-up to the Slowest if you want to have a weapon switch. A little obnoxious.
  8. hodak

    hodak IncGamers Member

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    Ow i read a few Frenzy threads but i can't find the answer : what min roll IAS on a Grief PB allows one to hit fastest Frenzy speed when paired with say an E-Death Col Sword? Would u say w/o much compromises a 35ias and faster roll perhaps?

    I used this calculator
    http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/speedcalc_titanseal/speedcalc_english.php
    hit worst roll 30ias Grief PB lvl 24 Frenzy and it says i need 50IAS off weapon to hit 5fpa?

    Highlord's = 20
    Gloves = 20
    ias jewel or nosferatu belt the rest?

    is the above what u guys do?

    Meanwhile a 35IAS or better roll hits 5FPA with 40 off weapon IAS assuming slvl 27 Frenzy @@
  9. Clervis

    Clervis IncGamers Member

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    So going back through this old thread, I'm still trying to figure it out exactly. Here's my position, I have a Grief PB (30ias) [-30wsm] and Death CS [10wsm]. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    WSM - bugging:
    1. Place Death above gloves.
    2. Place Grief above boots.
    3. Double-click Death.

    What attack rate should that give me? How much IAS do I need for the next breakpoint? Will switching to my singer gear cancel out the bug?
  10. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    When Frenzy is used with two weapons of unequal weapon speed or weapon Increased Attack Speed and it misses (hit check fails or it is blocked), TitanSeal's attack speed calculator is accurate and the minimum IAS (including primary weapon IAS) required to achieve maximum attack speed with level 24-26 Frenzy (44 skill IAS) is as follows:

    Code:
    INVENTORY SLOT    IAS
    Left     Right
    ---------------------
    1: -30   2:  10    78
    1:  10   2: -30    78
    ---------------------
    2: -30   1:  10   317
    2:  10   1: -30     8
    
    So for a Grief Phase Blade (-30) with 30 IAS, you'd require 48 (78-30) off-weapon IAS if it's the primary weapon in the left inventory slot (above gloves), but if the Death Colossus Sword (10) is equipped in its place then 78 (78-0) off-weapon IAS is required.

    However, when Frenzy strikes then TitanSeal's script is required (you need to register with inDiablo.de to download it). The minimum IAS (including the slower weapon's IAS, or 0 in this case) required to achieve maximum attack speed is as follows:

    Code:
    INVENTORY SLOT    IAS
    Left     Right
    ---------------------
    1: -30   2:  10   259
    1:  10   2: -30    65
    ---------------------
    2: -30   1:  10   259
    2:  10   1: -30    65
    
    So these breakpoints are the same regardless of the Grief PB's (30-40) weapon IAS. Without (ab)using the weapon speed bug, it's best to equip the Death CS as the primary weapon in the left inventory slot: however, although only 65 off-weapon IAS is required to achieve maximum attack speed when Frenzy strikes, 78 off-weapon IAS is required to achieve this when it misses.

    Regardless of whether Frenzy misses or strikes, the least off-weapon IAS is required when the weapon speed bug is (ab)used with the Grief PB as the primary weapon equipped in the right inventory slot (above boots): you require no off-weapon IAS (8-30 < 0) when it misses, and 65 off-weapon IAS when it strikes. Unfortunately this isn't normally a stable configuration, since every time you swap weapons or retrieve your corpse the game tries to equip the weapon in the left inventory slot first, making it the primary weapon.

    However, this configuration can be stable in this case because the Death CS has Requirements -20% from a socketed item (Hel Rune). Although this means an ethereal CS only requires 136 Strength to equip, this is the last thing taken into account in the equipping order so as long as your Barbarian has less than 172 Strength required to equip the ethereal Colossus Sword, it should always be equipped last even after swapping weapons (you can check this by seeing that the PB is always displayed in your Barbarian's right hand).


    Bottom line:
    With level 24-26 Frenzy, 65 off-weapon IAS is required to achieve maximum attack speed when the Grief PB is equipped first in the right inventory slot, which should be a stable configuration if your Barbarian has < 172 Strength; otherwise, 78 off-weapon IAS is required when the Death CS is equipped first in the left inventory slot. The other two configurations should be avoided.

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