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Economy: Items vs. Gold

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Deckard Cain, Jun 28, 2012. | Replies: 38 | Views: 2919

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What do you prefer, and Economy based on gold or items?

  1. Items

    38 vote(s)
    55.9%
  2. Gold

    30 vote(s)
    44.1%
  1. Deckard Cain

    Deckard Cain IncGamers Member

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    One of the major differences from D2 - D3 is the commodity used for the economy (yes yes, this is obvious to everyone by now). This GREATLY impacts the economy, and results in a large impact to the gameplay.

    In D2 gold was useless, and D3 does a great job to make gold useful. However, it raises the question, is gold TOO valuable in this game?

    I would argue that it is. From my experience MFing isn't really worth the effort. From the many runs I have done I haven't really FOUND any items that are upgrades for me. This leads to a feeling that it would be more efficient to farm gold. Farming gold is like farming items, except it is really boring. In D2 I got this feeling that every time I killed meph / diablo / baal something AMAZING might drop. When I did meph runs i got this feeling of "OMFG this could be the run my HOZ / SS / Vampgaze drops." This resulted in a very addictive feeling of wanting to do 1 more run.

    In D3 I get the feeling that I'm playing for gold. Gold is what I want to get me any item in the game. Sure, it is much easier than the old D2 system. When I find an item I don't have to trade it for XXXX Sojs / HR's, and then trade those for the item i want. However, it is much more fun / addictive to hunt items. In D3 the best thing to do is farm gold, and this is very very very boring.

    This is a huge downfall to a game based on finding ITEMS. I find myself hopping on D3, doing a run or 2 which results in finding some **** rares or some rares I can sell on the AH. The end result is a marginal increase in my net worth in gold. Not too exciting, and the runs don't give the same feeling of excitement that at any pack kill something AWESOME will drop.

    ---------------------------ALSO-----------------------

    Bots in D3 compared to duping / bots in D2.

    Bots in D3 have a significantly increased detrimental effect on the economy. Farming gold is easy and efficient. Duping / bots in D2 didn't seem to harm me as severely. If anything, duping made HR's EASIER to obtain without actually decreasing the in game power of the HR.

    Duping made high powered and fun runewords more easy to create (since duping essentially decreased the currency value of HR's).

    In D3, botting is making gold less and less powerful, which is making it harder and harder to obtain items via the AH.
  2. sacridoc

    sacridoc IncGamers Member

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    Has to be items...

    Gold encourages gold farming as a way to get the best items (as long as the GAH is used). Gold farming is incredibly boring and goes against the addictive nature of Diablo item farming. Gold works in a game like WoW because you can't list most items on the AH. But in D3, where everything can be put on the AH, you can essentially turn the game into a massive gold farm. It does seem like Blizzard has made most gold farming locations less efficient recently though, which is a plus. It seems like it's pretty difficult to get anything over 500k / hour now.

    But when gold farming becomes the best way to get items it dulls the game because gold farming isn't dynamic or fun. Gold farming doesn't even feel like you're playing the game. Same goes for the RMAH of course. When the RMAH becomes more efficient than item farming in terms of workhours per item, it dulls the game because it makes more sense to play the game less and earn more real money to get the best items.

    Neither one of these routes to getting the best items can be more efficient than actually finding the items themselves (and acquiring that added value in the form of the items as opposed to real money or gold). Otherwise it dulls the game. Gold could be on the way out though, I'm not sure how it'll stick around honestly once the RMAH prices drop.

    Once you get away from caring about gold... the same problem will exist with the RMAH honestly. Eventually the prices for strong items should be valued lower than what they should be for the time invested. This could create an imbalance where the items are too cheap and RMAH use is encouraged which turns D3 into a PtW game essentially. People swear they'll never pay real money for a video game item, but when you realize that you're spending $5 on an item that would take you 7 hours to farm for, it just won't make sense to not do it.

    When either one of these methods becomes the most efficient way to get items the game gets dull. And when the drop rates are made too low in order to compensate for the existence of the AHs, the player doesn't "win" enough to want to keep playing.

    The RMAH prices need to get a lot lower and more people need to have access to the high end items to see exactly what will happen though.

    We're still a long way from seeing how people will truly interact with the RMAH... which has to be what the developers are watching the closest.
  3. Sky Tan

    Sky Tan IncGamers Member

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    Personally, GOLD

    Well, look further the legendaries patch over the rainbow.
    But still at least Gold is worth something, had too much of pindle runs with craps.
    Now we are also technically doing "pindle" runs but you get consolated with GOld + NPC items if the drops dun turn out well.

    _______________________________

    Dunno if u had watch Athene suggestion, i had this thought too when the RMAH started.

    WHY CANT THEY JUST SELL GOLD IN THE RMAH.

    =.=

    Makes the not too user friendly AH even much tedious to look for things both sides, wont it be easier to be able to tweak the gold cost which will affect BOTH the AH economy.
  4. sacridoc

    sacridoc IncGamers Member

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    Well, the issue with pindle-style runs in D3 is that your chance of getting good items is generally extremely low. The best way to get items is doing full runs with NVx5. Also, most people who are gold farming have low MF, and vice-versa, so if you're farming gold you won't get good items enough for it to be fun. But yeah, before 1.0.3, Sarkoth with high MF was an awful experience where you very very rarely got a good item and didn't get very much gold. Not that it's much better now, but I think you at least can get a higher ilvl from him now.

    You should be able to sell gold on the RMAH in the near future, they just haven't implemented it yet. I think when people are able to buy 100,000 gold for like 0.50 at the most, gold farming will become pointless and could be what creates the transition to the RMAH.

    Wonder why they haven't enabled that feature yet? Probably makes more sense for them to wait until the RMAH is more popular, gold is a lot less popular, and the RMAH prices drop.
  5. Carisma

    Carisma IncGamers Member

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    To me Diablo is about the items, but now its about the gold. Between the high repair cost and the insane prices on the AH, gold hunting has became boring, as I am not search for something shiny, but rather big piles of gold. As much as I enjoyed the idea of the gold based economy before D3 came out, now that I have seen it, the feel diablo once had is gone.
  6. Deckard Cain

    Deckard Cain IncGamers Member

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    I agree. I was initially excited about gold based economy however I had over looked gold farming which was inevitable. Hunting items was much more fun.


  7. Chaosmage

    Chaosmage IncGamers Member

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    The problem is there are no items which could replace gold this easily. Gems are mostly concentrated gold.
    Since creating gems costs gold and the gold is "destroyed" in the process using them deflates gold thus makes it more valueable.

    I would suggest instead using crafting materials like brimstone instead. Because if you hoard them they cannot be used for crafting which would also destroy gold. But since you are using that for trade directly you are preventing the gold (and the brimstone) to be destroyed inflating both. But since brimstone is much more rare than gold it doesn't affect it as much and it can only be obtained by actually killing monsters in inferno. (one way or the other)

    Some people already gave the word out, I think too D3s future currency after gold inflation is brimstone.
  8. Sky Tan

    Sky Tan IncGamers Member

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    But i still feel Jeweller will have a big part. They will try to sink gold from the NPCs

    And dun forget about the enchanter?


    Gems were worthless before crafting arrived in D2 vanilla.
    Runes before runewords?
  9. Crudesash68

    Crudesash68 IncGamers Member

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    What if the GAH was removed?

    While that doesn't necessarily solve every problem in regards to item quantity and value, it does make items more relevant, whether you want to find them to use, or to sell.
  10. TarnishedHope

    TarnishedHope IncGamers Member

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    Item.

    GAH is the worst thing to have happened to DIII. Ever. It drove Blizzard to make conscious design choices in adherence to it.

    Outside of RMAH, of course.
  11. Inntinn

    Inntinn IncGamers Member

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    Diablo is about items and gathering them, getting better ones that you have, collect a full set etc.
    With the current droprates and bad rolls I am forced to resort to goldfarming which I refuse to do so I keep trying to get items but since I so far (>250 hours on 5 classes who are all in inferno) only found (for instance) 8 legendaries of wich 7 are worthless and have yet to find the first set-item, I suspect I will get tired of playing very soon. Hopefully an expansion will come as soon as this fall otherwise the game is shelved.

    And what's with the "Plan" drops? I only found 3 different plans so far, 2 of which in ridiculous amounts (7 Exalted Sovereign Mail, 5 Exalted Sovereign Helm)

    As far as the RMAH goes: Before launch I thougt it was cool how if you were unlucky to find gear and you could not win on GAH people would have the option to actually buy what they needed to keep enjoying the game or play the game the way they enjoy. I myself am more into finding stuff than anything else but the option was nice for a lot of people I thought. I expected prices to range from $0.10 to , maybe for a really cool and good item even as high as $10 (who would want to pay that much anyway, but I could see that happening I guess..) Then the RMAH went live.. I looked, I laughed, I left and never looked back. IMO it's only a matter of time (2 months max) that RMAH is straightened out pricewise and with that the game gold-economy. If for some reason it's not it's going to be the end of the game I guess.. Even at this point I have friends that have been hardcore D2 LOD players from the start and occasionally played it again in the past decade that have already abandoned D3 and that can't be good or intended can it?
  12. altima

    altima IncGamers Member

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    Items ! There is nothing fun in farming gold, but one needs to do it because it is next to impossible to find something to wear that will actually allow progression thru inferno. I myself have found only 1 good amulet (that i currently wear), everything else is bought from the GAH. During the past week I have not even found something to sell in the GAH for over 50k.

    Anyways the point is - item hunting = fun, gold farming = boring. Playing a game should be fun, thus d3 should be based around items and item hunting.
  13. davew2040

    davew2040 IncGamers Member

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    Looks like a lot of people are coming to the conclusion that the Auction Houses are not really a good thing for the game.


    If they're really that concerned about shady trading sites doing real money transfers, then nuke the problem by making items Bind-on-Pickup, a technique that was designed *exactly* to solve this problem and encourage people to play the actual games in question.


    It's like Blizzard forgot their own lessons learned.
  14. Inntinn

    Inntinn IncGamers Member

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    @davew2040

    Personally I don't have a real problem with the AH (except maybe the RMAH) apart from it being flawed in respect to UI, search options, export options, sort options and filters. I think it's great that if you happen to find only DH-stuff and you play a Wizzard you can trade through an AH. It's ppl's greed that makes items this expensive and goldfarming necessary but that will pass over time I am sure.

    You mentioned Bind on Pickup? I think that would be close to impossible not to mention unfair given you being the only one the item dropped for. When in a group one should at least have the option to drop it again (unidentified) for a class that could benefit from such a drop? What's the point in having an optionally nice fistweapon drop for a Demon Hunter that binds on pickup only to be salvaged or sold to shop? If any binding I vote for Bind on ID.

    Come to think of it.. Wouldn't it be too cool to have an item state who actually found it in the game? Nice for legitimate players to get credit/recognition and a way to spot those farming bots? I am sure they would stand out on the AH?
  15. Carisma

    Carisma IncGamers Member

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    BOP would rune the game even more, the same could and would be said about BOP. Diablo is a Trading game when everything is said in done. I know for me anways, I enjoyed trying to deal with people, the excitement of working out a good trade was always a rush. The unique and set items paved way for good gear to level with, many time I would wear the Sigon set through normal and part of nightmare, slowly replacing it with other unique or set items. I had a reason to have mule and hold on to stuff for new characters, or even friends to use.

    Now in D3 the items are boring, You need you main stat and vit to both be high, and other key stats to make you character viable. No one might be wearing the same gear name wise, but everyone is wearing similar gear, some have better stats than others. Builds are not as mass as they promised, at least viable builds to clear inferno with. The system they have in place could of been so much better than what it is, and how the weapons damage effects all spells is sad. Why should my weapon damage effect my arcane orb, this should be scaled with the intellect, and arcane damage % increase mods - the same goes for all caster class' spells.
  16. Carisma

    Carisma IncGamers Member

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    I also wanted to add before synergies, I felt like I was able to make more diverse builds with the D2 skill tree, and +1 skill mods on items (sometime +2 or + to certain skills.)
  17. davew2040

    davew2040 IncGamers Member

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    Here's how I would envision bind-on-pickup working in D3.


    First, make gold and gems still be tradable, essentially items that aren't special but provide a little bit of the "social" aspect of trading.


    As far as items that drop in the game world: they're bound to your entire account, so you have the option of using them on your current character, handing them off to a different character, or dusting them for crafting. OR, you can trade them to anybody who was in the game with you when it dropped. So, playing with other people essentially gives your party the option of quadrupling your useful drops. That could be a big boost to the social aspect.


    Now, to counter the fact that players might have trouble finding good items for a particular slot, they should add a bunch of "pretty good" legendary or set crafting plans, with mostly fixed stats that make them nice "hit level 60 recently" items if you don't find any good stuff in the meantime. They can still have the hugely expensive legendaries that take serious farming, and still have the random patterns with the small chance of a big payout, to reward players who are playing for awhile without a pay-off.


    The goal of this system is not only to remove the AH, but also to remove the ability of farmers to go in there and play the game for you, which we're seeing A LOT of right now and which I'm sure has Blizzard laughing all the way to the bank.


    It's like, you already have to go into debt up your eyeballs to live life these days. Do my video games need to nickel and dime me too? :p
  18. Carisma

    Carisma IncGamers Member

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    I can see where you are coming from with the BOA items, but as much as I think it is a valid point, This would still kill the trading aspect which diabo was and should still be today. Blizzard scxrewed up, fans are mad, but they would be less aggravated if Blizzard would confess they took a gamble with certain changes and that they are not working the way they thought it would. Then take the next step and alter/tweek/replace feature for something that works.
  19. davew2040

    davew2040 IncGamers Member

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    It's entirely possible that I see Diablo differently than most people. I always enjoyed the isometric action and the loot hunting way more than I enjoyed the trading, which in my experience was painful and filled with shady idiots.


    I think these days, any game that incorporates trading as an option sends out the bat signal to the farmers and nearly immediately makes the game worse. It's bizarre that people will pay real money to get ahead, and even kind of bizarre that people enjoy the exchange rate metagame so much.


    Say what you will about WoW, I personally never enjoyed the combat in that game, but I always felt like I was earning my own items and progressing my own character. It had a real sense of ownership that I was not just hoping for but EXPECTING in D3. I'm hugely disappointed that I may have to go back to boring traditional MMO combat for a game experience that feels like my skill makes a difference.
  20. Snakefinger

    Snakefinger IncGamers Member

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    I really miss trading items for items between players. Grinding for items used to be fun in the previous games, but that's lacking in this game because the itemization just isn't very interesting. At least in previous games you'd get a little excited if you found a set or legendary. Now that legendary and set items are so poor, it doesn't even matter if you find them -- if you can even find them at all.

    I will say, I was never a fan of SoJs being used as currency, but in previous installments you'd have a better chance of finding a specialized item you could trade for something more valuable and barter your way to better gear. That doesn't exist in Diablo 3. You have 2 options -- grinding endlessly for gold, hoping you get a .001% godly drop you can sell for millions, or use the RMAH which is a complete rip off. It just seems hopeless for a person like me who's invested 150+ hours in my DH, with 40 of those hours being nothing but inferno MF runs and I haven't found ANYTHING outside of some gem plans and one pair of shoulders I was able to sell for 500k... What's the fun in that?

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