Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Does rend stack ?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by snowcatcher, Mar 11, 2012. | Replies: 26 | Views: 24627

  1. snowcatcher

    snowcatcher Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Does rend stack ?

    Well does it ?

    Lets say i hit with rend, enemies are affected for 210 weapon dmg for 3 sec. If i hit with rend again 1 second after my first use of rend, what will happen in the next 4 sec?

    a)
    1st sec 70% weapon dmg from first rend, 2nd 140, 3rd 140, 4th second 70 weapon dmg from 2nd rend.

    b)
    70% weapon dmg for 4 sec, since rend got reset the 2nd second and does not stack in dmg.
  2. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    Well as far as I know DoTs all stack, but I don't know for certain. If they didn't stack it would be quite a waste of resources though wouldn't it? Things that don't stack like Hydra...well that one's quite obvious as the previous hydra disappears. It wouldn't make sense for a wound to disappear now would it?
  3. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    356
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    As far as I could tell, no DoT stacks at the moment, not even Rend's bleed effect. This reinforces the idea, that these skills should be used to support your other damage skills and not as a primary way to deal damage.

    Just to make sure, I'll test Rend tonight.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  4. snowcatcher

    snowcatcher Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    It shouldn't be too hard, just spam it couple of times and see if the speed at which dmg is dealt increases with additional sweeps.
  5. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    356
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    That's exactly what I did and the damage didn't increase with multiple applications of Rend, so no, Rend doesn't stack.
  6. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    Well that was unexpected! It puts a whole new twist on skills like blizzard and acid cloud; if those skills don't stack, they wouldn't be primary or secondary offensive attacks, but more like tertiary. One attack for damage, one attack for resource regenration, and if DoTs don't stack, they won't fit into either category. To me this makes them a lot less desirable, as skills that increase overall damage without being main attacks are very common, yet shouldn't take up too many skill slots. Also, does this mean poison damage doesn't stack? I mean if something does 100 poison damage over three seconds and you use it three times, once per second, surely it wouldn't do just 167 damage? It should do 300 damage!
  7. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    356
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    It certainly doesn't with Poison Darts.

    Right now, that's how it is.

    I disagree. If DoTs don't stack they actually have a unique role in your build. If they would stack, they would just become another spammable primary attack.


  8. Jaago

    Jaago IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    Well, that would be true if they had a damage advantage over the regular attacks. Using a Rend means you're not using a HotA or something, which just means doing the same amount of damage in an elongated period of time, which is just bad. Rend at least has a decent AoE to make it justifiable, an advantage that many other DoTs don't have against similar instant-damage skills. I believe buffs like Battle Rage would be much more beneficial for kill speed than most DoTs are at the moment.



  9. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    356
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    Maybe. However, if DoTs don't stack then theoretically the best way to do damage is to apply a buff to yourself and keep a DoT up while using your primary, spammable main attack. That's 3 skills at least and the DoT part will require you to have a precise timing if you want to maximize your damage (100% DoT uptime) and don't want to waste resources while doing so (using the DoT again right after the previous one ended).

    Meanwhile if DoTs would stack, they would be considered a normal main attack and wouldn't require timing at all, which would make creating optimal builds easier and the combat less deep.
  10. Jaago

    Jaago IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    Not exactly what I meant. I'll use an example: Flaming Dart vs. Resentful Spirit. Flaming Dart is 170& weapon damage, while Resentful Spirit deals 180% over 3 seconds, both single-target. You can have either of them, or both. On their own, you'd rather have the Dart over the Spirit because multiple Spirits won't stack.

    Now, if you would have both, the Spirit would add a whopping 10% weapon damage over 3 seconds against a single target, as casting it on the enemy means you're spending that cast time not casting a 170% wd Flaming Dart. So the DoT skill is redundant because it does not add a substantial damage over the instant-damage option. Resentful Spirit is almost entirely redundant in its current form, and would better be replaced by a skill to fill another purpose.

    The same redundancy seems possible in many other DoT skills: Locust Swarm seems it might well be bested by Zombie Charger, Blizzard by Meteor, etc.
  11. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    356
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    Ah, I see what you mean and I agree. The damage of these DoTs could also be increased or some other effect could be added to them.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  12. KIIFive

    KIIFive IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    I agree with Hardrock, the 'skill' and strategy DoT skills add to the game is very valuable and removing them would essentially be removing build types (the more the better right?).

    The thing I like about DoT skills is that you can put one or two of them up on these weaker monsters, then use your primary attack against these stronger monsters over here. So fire and forget at the weak guys, then focus your attention on the monsters that require it the most, and when you are done with them you go back to the weaker guys and they dead or close to it. It allows a form of multitasking which can really speed clearing up if you are skilled enough.

    I definitely want to try out a DoT witch doctor at some stage because I think it will be a really fun and rewarding playstyle.
  13. Jaago

    Jaago IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    I never disagreed with that notion. Only that many DoTs are currently not strong enough. As in your example, one or two instant-damage spells would kill the smaller guys or weaken them as much as the DoTs would have done for same amount of cast time and resources used. There might be no advantage in having the DoTs in your skill selection, except that it may make the game tactically more fun and challenging.
  14. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    Ah I see what you're saying Hardrock, and I agree that it would add depth and be very fun. The problem is, I just ran right over that thinking because of what Jaago pointed out: currently, DoTs are crap (now that I know they don't stack). Sure some of them may be good, but just eyeballing them, and remembering the numbers from when I played with the skill calculator/Diablonut, the numbers led me to assume they do stack for a good reason: they are too low for them to be useful if they don't stack. In Jaago's example that extra 10% weapon damage is a best case scenario, when the monster happens to die right at the end of the 3s cycle. Sure, for tougher monsters that take dozens of seconds to kill, that 10% damage will add up over time, but over 60% weapon damage of overkill will occur more often than not, and really, does that make it worth a skill slot? Definitely not.
  15. ElementEight

    ElementEight IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    The problem with most dots curently (including rend) is that they don't really do enough damage over their duration to overcome the benefit of even a weaker BUT INSTANT effect. I mean, HotA does 200% + 15% crit (assuming 100% extra crit damage, we're looking at 230% DPS on average) and Rend 210% over 3. They just don't compare, as you don't really want to be surrounded in the first place.

    Other freak accounts of this disparity include Blizzard (175% for 45 AP over 3) vs. Meteor (250% + 100% over 3 for 60 AP), haunt vs spirit barrage (though the former is obviously more mana efficient)...
  16. yovargas

    yovargas IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,709
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    171
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    My general thought for DoTs is that they should be very mana efficient so with Rend, I'd rather it have lower cost then increased dmg (210% unruned is a lot!).
  17. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    With Meteor though, I'm sure there's a casting delay, even though the stupid dumbed down tooltip doesn't say anything about it. And also, Blizzard has the chill as well, but I agree, even at 175% over 3s (at one point it was listed as 130% over 3s), it's still not enough to warrant the 45 AP cost. And yeah, even if rend did stack, it's still weaker than hammer of the ancients or seismic slam. Seismic slam's aoe is more useful to a barb than rend's, and of course it does more instant damage, which allows more focus fire efficiency and less overkill.

    And now, after learning that rend doesn't stack, I find myself completely giving up on ever using the skill. 210% unruned isn't bad, but considering this is a DoT, for a melee class, and this is a skill that costs 20 fury, it is terrible.
  18. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    356
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    Rend was amazing, when you could rune it to increase its radius to 17 yards. It was much better that way than Hammer (even with Rolling Thunder) simply because you could hit so much more enemies with it.
  19. Jaago

    Jaago IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    Meteor's delay is 2 seconds, it can be seen in the skill videos page. I'd say 175% weapon damage would be enough to make Blizzard useful as its chill is more potent than I expected. But it's still listed at 130% at the Diablonut page, which is based on patch 14 information. With that, I see little reason to pick Blizzard over Comet, for example.



  20. Elfik

    Elfik IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Re: Does rend stack ?

    If the point of blizzard was to chill enemies and do small amounts of damage it wouldn't be 45AP cost. Look at the Wicth doctor's grasp of the dead. Maybe they should make Blizzard a cooldown spell with with 25 or less AP cost, and keep the rest the same? And yeah, I am looking at comet, which should have the exact same chill effect as Blizzard, but does way more damage. Also, with good prediction and kiting skils, the casting delay shouldn't be much of a problem. I think Blizzard vanilla should be 233% over 4 seconds, like what is currently listed in the skill calculator as "unrelenting storm".

    Also, I hear the chill from cold skills is 20% attack speed, 30% movement speed?


Share This Page