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Diablo3 really seems a better game than Torchlight 2

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 Community Forum' started by Jednowlosy, Oct 25, 2012. | Replies: 59 | Views: 7264

  1. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    I'll probably get flamed for this, but I'm really disappointed by TL2 in the long run. It was promising the first 20-30 hours, but then... you realize that:
    a) some skills are too strong, most is useless; Same goes to weapon choices (Two handers suck compared to sword&board or dual wield)
    b) itemization is actually TERRIBLE, like in D3, Uniques are just rares with random prefixes and suffixes thrown together, rares are much more powerful at pretty much any point of the game (seems only D2 got it right with Uniques which were sometimes actually UNIQUE, and not "a rare with two more affixes)
    c) The games is annoying without twinking/magic find on elite due to monsters' high damage and crits, but on the other hand, it's too easy for people who farm up (especially +dr% socketables, which are overpowered)
    d) The statistic enchanter adds so much +attributes to high level gear that the game becomes faceroll no matter what you play (of course you may deliberately avoid this OP enchanter, but..)
    e) The game is extremely repetitive, and this comes from a guy who played Diablo 1 and Diablo2 for 10 years
    f) There's absolutely ZERO endgame, less than in D3
    g) There's no protection - people are duping stuff left and right with a simple sharedstash copying. It TOTALLY takes the "competitive" part out of the game...
    i) There is no pvp, and probably won't be
    j) There's no respecialization, now while some die-hard players are satisfied with this, I really don't like to reroll a char and play exactly the same levels killing exactly the same monsters in an exactly the same fashion because I discover that a skill I put 10 points into ended up useless (and I'm a perfectionist) fortunately there are mods around...
    k) The game tempts you with illusion of customization but it's an ILLUSION, exactly like in Diablo2 - 100dex, 400 str (or 400 focus if you're a caster) is the cookie-cutter most people follow, with VIT being useless



    Also, TL2 doesn't seem to have ANY lasting appeal. I can't really imagine people playing this after like 2-3 years from now on...
    Was it worth 20 bucks? YES. I had a really fun time with it. An "instant classic" ? HELL NO. This game isn't worthy of polishing Diablo 2's old, dirt-stained boots.

    TL2 is good, but it's a kind of good that lasts for a month max, and then gets forgotten. Very overhyped game.

    While you may hate me for this, I think Diablo3 will eventually overcome its difficulties and be played years from now on, and TL2 will be dead and forgotten in no time.
    Cheers.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2012
  2. Chaosmage

    Chaosmage IncGamers Member

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    I'm seriously contemplating going do Median and never looking back. (You know there is realm play there too btw... I can't tell you were but it should be safe to at least mention it)
    Probably should have done that instead of purchasing DIII anyway.
  3. Chaosmage

    Chaosmage IncGamers Member

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    Don't count on it. For me, the itemisation system is unfixable unless they completly reinvent it.
    That is something TL2 and any other game in that genre has as head-start on D3.

    It's not really uniques, or legendaries or random stats. It's this +elemental/physical damage crap on weapons and stat points on items instead of characters which broke it. There might have been a working system back before the beta in 08 but not any more. Skills without skillpoints wouldn't even that bad if it weren't for that above shortcoming.
    If they would have left in skillrune levels it might even have turned out to even work, but this sledgehammer approach NFW.
  4. mrpinsky

    mrpinsky IncGamers Member

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    a) it depends a lot on which skills you combine them with, on your playstyle, on your attributes, and obviously on your gear. If you check the forums you will see that a variety of builds/skills are being used.
    b) full-heartedly disagree, the item system in TL2 is excellent. I'm not sure what you are on about with regards to uniques, because they are quite unique, check the TL2 Armory. To give just one example, there are unique boots 'Snowcoursers' which have life steal, which you can't get on boots otherwise, as far as i know.
    f) I don't know about your definition of 'endgame', but there is a lot to do after you beat the game: the whole ng+(+) stuff, mapworks, reaching clvl 100, rerolling and trying new builds...
    g) TL2 was never intended to be competitive. It's a better approach IMHO because it saves us the whole online-only, account hacking, gold seller BS that D3 players suffer from. Tip: Play with your friends who don't cheat.
    i) you are misinformed, there is PvP. It's a flag that both people need to set (consentual dueling). Actually, as of the time speaking, TL2 has a lot more PvP than D3 ;)
    j) There is limited respec in TL2. Limiting it was a deliberate design choice of the Runic team, and while you may not agree, I'm personally convinced that it makes for a better, longer lasting game.
    k) seems much better than D3 where you have no choice at all ;) Again, check the forums: you will see that not everyone agrees that Vit is worthless, and some people have come up with creative builds.

    If you ask me, TL2 will have more long time appeal than D3, because of better design choices overall, and not least because of mods.
  5. diablotwoplayerforlife

    diablotwoplayerforlife Banned

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    I didn't buy TL2 because the animated graphics doesn't appeal to me. Diablo 3 is just as bad. Path of Exile is going to be the successor of D2 in my case. Diablo 3 was a fail that became boring very fast, TL2 i did not buy because I did not want to buy game number 4234234 with cartoon graphics.

    That's nice, life leech boots. Why didn't they thought about that in D2?
  6. Chaosmage

    Chaosmage IncGamers Member

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    cuz there were life leech gloves? :p
  7. diablotwoplayerforlife

    diablotwoplayerforlife Banned

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    Sure, but why not have both? lol.
  8. Chaosmage

    Chaosmage IncGamers Member

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    Well, I guess is once a boni becomes available on every slot is feels less exclusive.

    See stat points in D3. Every item absolutly must have at least main stat or vit unless it is a weapon with high end dps. If those boots were crap otherwise it could have been alright though.... At least there were mana leech boots, which happens to be non-existent in D3 and is part of the reason it blows.
  9. zacheroog

    zacheroog IncGamers Member

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    I think TL2's problem is the lack of support in multiplayer. It's there, but it's pretty much a big free for all. Therefore, for me it ends up being a single player game.

    If D2 didn't have the multiplayer that it had, I probably wouldn't have played it for too long either. That was the issue I had with D3. It felt like I was playing a single player game which was online-only, so I got bored. Now though, it's a little better since grouping is viable.
  10. mr punk

    mr punk IncGamers Member

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    well, i don't hate you. the lulz from posters who are hoping, praying and insisting that $60 is going to pay off one of these days are awesome.
  11. FluffyTheFluffer

    FluffyTheFluffer IncGamers Member

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    Personally, I think ARPGs are just a little tired as a genre. But I'll pick some of the low hanging fruit here.

    a) True. Some skills are useless. But that's fine, each class has dozens to pick from, and there really isn't much commitment in terms of needing one to get another. Stupid point about two handers, some builds and skills are great with them, and encouraging shields and dual-wield is a good thing.

    b) Wrong, itemization is infinitely better than D3 for the first hundred or two hours of play, which is what 90% of folks want. Recent patching may have made the gap between tl2 and D3 a little less dramatic in terms of D3 being a flaming crater.

    c) Bizarre comment. Elite is too hard, non-elite is too easy? Sorry if you'd rather grind for 50 hours before different difficulty experiences open up in a game.

    d) Again, perhaps balance falls apart after you've played a toon for hundreds of hours. Congrats, you're in the 1% too autistic to just roll a new character and try a new build.

    e) Agreed, but that's the genre. In shooters, you also keep on shooting people. In platformers, you keep on jumping around stuff. In MMOs, you keep on assembling ten of an item. Funny how that works.

    f) Half-agreed. NG+ needs tuning, especially in terms of letting different levels multiplay, but if you call rerunning the same content multiple times an endgame... well...

    g) that's your own e-peen issues

    h) shockingly enough, this was skipped.

    i) uh, no, unlike D3, it exists. just do /pvp in a multiplayer game. Is it totally undeveloped, and does it have cheeseball one-shotting? Yes, but it exists.

    j) there is limited respec-cing. Respec mods will be all over the place soon enough, if they don't already exist.

    k) an illusion that people are still buying enough to be on the shelves at target 12 years later. that's what games are. escapist entertainment. Believe it or not, people don't teleport or shoot fireballs from their fists too often.

    Is it a non-classic? Probably, the story is pretty thin and weak, and kills a lot of the immersion for me, personally. Is it not as good as D2? Sure, not really close. Does it tower above D3 on multiple levels with a strong possibility of awesome mods that can be enjoyed offline coming in the future? Well, yeah.
  12. Ivan E

    Ivan E IncGamers Member

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    Guys, just FYI -- there's a few ways to easily enable respecs via the console in TL2. And I don't even own the game.
  13. snurrfint

    snurrfint IncGamers Member

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    I only played a few hours of TL2 and was a little bit disappointed even though it didn't suck.

    1. The game looks a lot worse than I remembered from TL1. Most probably because D3 looks and feels so much more awesome. Not an important issue if it wasn't for 2 and 3.

    2. The game was very hard to read. I remember one of the Blizzcons when Blizzard talked about how they worked with foreground and background pallets to make the most important stuff on the screen be easier to read and stand out. After playing TL2 I know what they mean. In TL2 everything is equally colorful and It's really hard to see whats what. A purple teddy bear on light green grass could just as well be a colorful flower.

    3. UI is a mess. It's hard to read. Terrible font, ugly buttons and icons. It really gives you a headache compared to D3. The skill interface in d3 really isn't that intuitive to use but at least its clear when you finally get a hang of it.

    http://d3rants.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/d3_inventory.jpg

    http://www.gamingtruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/TL2-Skills.jpg

    4. Lack of experimentation. You have completely no clue what so ever to how useful a skill is going to be and there is no easy way of testing it out and try different build options and stuff. Some ppl like this, and I can understand that. But with a limited time to play I really enjoy the D3 approach.

    5. Difficulties. The highest difficulty was too hard and boring to play. Took 10 minutes to chop down an elite pack. Hard was fine. But then you don't know how long it will stay fine and you always have that feeling that you don't compete at the highest lvl. Also, you can choose a lower difficulty to find uber gear to your other characters at a higher difficulty lvl which feels wrong but tempting.Oddly enough I reached a point in TL2 where I simply could not progress any further. The next area was 2-4 lvl's above me and I couldn't find any new dungeon to farm to reach that lvl. I must have missed something, but I don't know where.

    I like that the game is somewhat easy at first in d3 to prepare you slowly for a harder difficulty and that you can now choose before each game what lvl you want to play, and get rewarded with better gear and exp for taking the challenge Maybe you can choose that in TL2 too, I really don't know, but it seem like you will actually be rewarded for tuning down the difficulty instead of the opposite.

    6. Passive skills.

    Rank 1. 7% increase
    Rank 2. 8% increase
    Rank 3. 8.7% increase.
    ...
    Rank 14. ?14%?

    A few points in everything is always going to be mandatory with this system just like in d2. And you will hardly notice any change at higher LVLs. No thanks.

    7. Potions and character speed. The character moves much faster in TL2 but the enemies pretty much stands still in comparison. So the standard tactic is to either go ranged or to go melee and do hit and run tactic. Go in, do dmg, when in trouble, just run away, and wait for a potion to heal you up to full hp. Maybe its better in later acts but still. eeeh. no.

    I definitely want to play through the game at some point but right now I enjoy D3 far more and we have more patches, PvP and new Expansions to look forward to.
  14. Eryendil

    Eryendil IncGamers Member

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    Spending 2 friday evenings indoors playing D3 instead of going out already more then covers the 60$ we paid for this game.
  15. mr punk

    mr punk IncGamers Member

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    ahh..i love the smell of Buyer's Stockholm Syndrome in the morning.
  16. Eryendil

    Eryendil IncGamers Member

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    Bored much? ;)
  17. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    I don't think people in majority realize what's OP and what's not yet, given the popularity of weak builds (weak mathematically, that is). A matter of time, I'd say (although the biggest powerhouses of the game has been already discovered - prismatic bolt mage, glaive outlander, summoning engineer... to name a few)
    Now, if you want, say, a shockbolt or shocking orb mage, he's really deemed to suck. By the time he kills 10 monsters, hail/prismatic guy kills 10 screens.
    Of course it doesn't matter to everyone, but bad skill balance kinda matters to me :)

    In such a cluster of items, I may have missed one or two that give an affix that cannot pop at the particular item. But come on! How many weapons have godawful, uninspiring affixes? A lot.
    Just check legendaries... and compare them to a regular, 4x socket weapon with good gems.
    lvl100 uniques giving stull like "+1% all damage" or "+2% dodge" is really terrible, too.

    I consider Torchlight 2 itemization one of the worst I've ever seen. Honestly!

    The items are mostly random affixes thrown together.

    A good unique item is "Stormlash" from Diablo2, for example. It adds something REALLY unique (chance to cast static field), not just +20 strength, +20 damage, +20 attack speed, +5 light resistance like TL2 items do.

    endgame is after clvl 100 :)
    There's nothing to do there. And levels go really fast in TL2.
    You can of course replay the same game over and over with new chars, but what I hate about this is that after making prismatic mage, all other mage builds suck in comparison, and it's not fun that way. :)

    I know it was never intended to be competitive. That's why it's weak on the matter. There's nothing wrong in allowing people some rivalry. Saying blantantly "NO" to those... seems like a kick in the nuts to me. "Free for all" is really a good way to describe it.
    Besides, the teamplay really is lacking. By the way the skills are designed, there is no reward for team play. The classes don't really work well with each other, and monsters get ridiculous bonuses to damage and HP if there's more than 1 player in the game , making teaming up actually increase the tediousness of the game (esp. if playing untwinked).

    Console in any sort of MP games has been disabled in one of the first patches, so I have no clue how to do it anymore.

    Of course, as I said, some may like it. I really dislike however when the dev basically tells me to replay the same game (more or less the same way) over again just to try something new. It's really boring to me.

    Not everyone agrees there's evolution, too :p doesn't mean that those people are right.
    To sum it up, you get 10 hp for 1 vit iirc. With socketables and items giving +1500HP each, who needs VIT?
    Armor bonus? Armor system is TERRIBLE for this game. it's a flat reduction, but the monsters outperform armor in a way that makes it worthless.
    A simple example, a monster crit can easily score up to 20-30k damage. An armor value that is pretty much high at level 100 is 3000 I think. Now, whether the monster crits for 30k or 26k doesn't really matter when an average character has less than 10k HP.

    What matters in TL2 is +damage reduction% items, and those aren't affected by VIT.
    The only thing VIT is good for is +block chance, but with crazy stat enchanter, you don't need to put a single point in VIT to reach 75% block, ever :)

    Personally, I consider many of the design choices terrible :)

    Cheers.
  18. Medivon

    Medivon IncGamers Member

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    Anyone check out lineage eternal?? Looks insane
  19. Karpalo

    Karpalo IncGamers Member

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    Draculs were so much more than just lifesteal gloves. That was just good item design with the curse application, even admittedly they were so good that nothing else was even a choice at that point.
  20. FluffyTheFluffer

    FluffyTheFluffer IncGamers Member

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    How many hours of play do you need to experience, in Normal or Veteran, before you start running into monsters that crit that much... 50? 100? More? What % of players - even including those that want to finish the game with a few characters and explore NG+ a bit - will ever run into a monster that does a 20K damage hit?

    D3 has had almost a half year to tune things for the e-peen competitive endgamers, and is more than motivated to do it now, because those are the only ones left playing the game. TL2 is a very different game, in a very different position, and is a sequel to a title that was semi-casual in the first place. It just may not be for you.

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