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Diablo 3/Torchlight 2

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Sky Lynx, Apr 28, 2013. | Replies: 30 | Views: 3524

  1. Sky Lynx

    Sky Lynx IncGamers Member

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    Hello everyone,

    Please don't yell at me for the topic title just yet. I'm an old time D2 player, mostly single player (99% of my 50 posts were done in this forum), and I just want to ask fellow most loyal D2 players about new incarnation of our beloved game and it's so-to-speak indie successor. It so happened to me that I've missed the initial release and now I'm downloading the starter edition and I have some spare time.

    How is Diablo III? Torchlight 2? In your opinion. Have you still come back to D2 after trying one of both of them and why? What did you like/dislike?

    For me, I've just tried Torchlight 2. Played a couple of hours on Veteran. Gameplay is very close and such, the music is very familiar, even the red stat '+' buttons on character stats screen almost whisper 'nostalgia' to you. But it all feels messy and soul-less. Item dropped, but so what? The bare item hunt/character growth instinct is there, but it was the only thing, nothing else. Lore and world absolutely didn't capture me.

    Now with D3 I read a lot of things about that AH. Don't get me wrong, it is very good in WoW, but in Diablo? I've always played self-found, "untwinked", and it will be extremely sad if I have to use the AH for progress. It just cheapens the item hunt in the world to the point of wanting to find something rare just to sell it to buy something rare and useful. How was that experience for you?

    Thank you
  2. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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    RaaaaGGGEEEEEE!!!!!!

    Just kidding ;)

    TL2: I loved this game at first. It grabbed me right away but I ended up shelving it after about 20 hours. I hate the graphics for one. The gameplay feels very clunky, probably more even than D2. The worst part is the items though, I really hated the itemization. It's a good game, but most people that make it to the end game say there's not much desire to grind like D2 had.

    D3: This game is great, I played it since release and have over 700 hours into it. The biggest downside is also the itemization. They have somewhat fixed that through patches though and it's getting much better. The other issue is the AH. I love it and hate it, it makes the gear easy to find and buy, but also makes it quite boring as ultimately you are just grinding gold to buy items. You absolutely can play self found though, I know many people that have done it successfully. The other issue is the game just makes me feel alone, I feel more isolated than I ever did playing D2 SP.

    Now you've left something it of your post...

    Path of exile: This is what I would consider the true successor of D2 as far as gameplay goes. It's currently in open beta, but they will never do a full wipe of the servers. I've got probably 200 hours in this game and in really love it. It reminds me a lot of D2 but with updated graphics and mechanics and lots of fresh ideas. It's also free, so no risk besides the 5 gig download.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  3. Mungojerry

    Mungojerry IncGamers Member

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    D3 sucked, got back to D2 as soon as I completed normal on hc mp 10. This doesn't speak much for D3, but it's just missing blizzard north altogether. They don't know what they're doing anymore at the top. They've been staring at numbers for too long and probably taking lotsa vacations.

    Drunk
  4. Jcakes

    Jcakes IncGamers Site Pal

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    I pretty much agree 100% with kestegs.

    I enjoyed D3, probably mainly due to the mumble community. However, after a while I got sick of the grind. For me the problems were AH / stash size and lack of replayability. In D2 it was fairly common for me to keep good items either to try out on a different build or to lend to friends. In D3 if I found a good item that I couldn't use, it was to the AH to make me some money. The replayability problem is once you have one of each character, there is no reason to roll another (and I am a huge Build ADD guy). Overall I enjoyed and sunk a lot of time into it, but it does not have the same longevity as D2.

    TL2 I found incredibly boring and stopped playing fairly quickly.
  5. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    This is the new standard by which games should be judged.
  6. TheNix

    TheNix IncGamers Member

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    I enjoyed D3, I took all five characters through Inferno solo, but only on MP0 and with some dabbling in the Auction House. There were too many little annoyances that just kept me from loving the game and wanting to try play the game again, with new characters that is.
  7. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Level 99 virgin nerd here. I've dabbled in D2, D3, GW2, PoE, TL, TL2, BL, BL2, TQIT, etc. and I've done moderately well in most of them.

    TL2 is fun and easy and it will make you feel alone. And it really does feel as if there's no end goal, you just play through and that's the end. It follows the standard skill system, which has been tried and works well, but you won't get anything new out of it. Easily worth your money, even if you pay $20 imho.

    D3 is fun and challenging, but the drop system, at least when I quit in 1.05 or whenever, is garbage. It promotes AH reliance because in order to farm items necessary for the next area, you need to be capable of farming said next area. Catch-22. Itemization comes down to crit, crit damage, IAS, main stat, all resistance/health. Meh. Skill system is fresh at least, although nothing spectacular once you really look at it.

    [edit] Why I quit D3: I was making 1m/2hrs farming and playing the game. On the other hand, I was making 5m-10m/2hrs on average just camping AH, buying low and selling high. In the end I just realized I wasn't even playing the game anymore, I was playing AH. AFAIK this no longer works in 1.07 so I might play again...

    Try PoE. It has a very innovative skill system, based on connecting skill gems. You have a FFX-based stat system. It's also still in its infant stages. Like D3, several OP builds run the metagame, but unlike D3, the difference between top tiered builds and the lower tiered builds aren't miles apart.
  8. Jcakes

    Jcakes IncGamers Site Pal

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    This, 100x this. It was pretty depressing that I made more money playing the AH mini-game then the actual game. I think the drop rates have been improved and are continuing to be improved. TBH I think the console version is probably going to be better for us SP types as the drop rate wont be balanced around the AH. Kind of disappointing that the console gets a true SP, whereas the PC version doesn't.

    @OMG I think you have hit your quota for useful posts this year.
    I think this hits your quota of useful posts for the year OMG
  9. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

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    D3: Haven't really even touched it since a bit after the release date, so can't really say how things are now. Zero character customization pretty much ruined it for me. Not even stat points? -_-;; AH was annoying to see, even if serviceable items weren't so terrible to get self-found. Made it to 60, did some A1 running with a friend, then burned the game. Maybe 40-50 hours. Never found a set/legendary, if I remember right.

    TL2: Easily the most visually appealing game for me in the genre, but it just felt pathetically flat. Lasted 5 hours or so before burning. :badteeth: (Just for time perspective, almost 4000 hours on Pangya. Maybe 2x that for D2.)

    Haven't tried PoE, but it sounds appealing. A bit too much so. *avoids*
  10. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Never played PoE or Torchlight (1 or 2), but I did play Diablo 3, so I'll comment on that just a touch. Note: I've put in a little over 100 hours on Diablo 3, all but maybe 4 of them within two months of release.

    It's a good game. Duh, Blizzard made it and that's what they do. But it just doesn't do it for me. I was really enjoying the story and the excitement of a sequel on my original solo playthrough and then really enjoying MPing with my Starcraft clanmates and with folks from here (Liquid_Evil and his wife, Zylo, Nagisa, etc.) but once I got to the point I had opened up the majority of the game's tool chest the biggest problem of the game for me really started to hit home: the stash size. In D2 I keep an absolute ton of items on the basis of "I might find a use for this one day" and that urge only increases in D3 because of the readily adjustable skills but there's just not enough room to keep more than a few key items. It truly bums me out.

    Beyond that, I hate the feeling that every playing session must be long (30 minutes +) since I like to play in quick bursts (enough runs to fill the stash in D2 or a ladder game or two in Starcraft) and then run for some water/an actual run/read something/etc. I don't like feeling like I have to set aside a large block of time just to do some MFing. And I understand that I play/have played games like Civilization and the Elder Scrolls games (or even X-Com now that I think about it) where a quick playing session may turn into hours but in those cases it turns into hours because even after hours it feels like a quick playing session, whereas 30 minutes of non-questing monster hunting in D3 feels like about half of forever.

    Also, I can only teleport four times. Drove me close to total insanity, honestly. I like speed and mobility - my favorite unit to control in Brood War was the vulture, for instance, even though I wasn't a Terran player - so that just made me want to toss my disk out the window. And, no, I don't buy it being "strategically more interesting" because you can use teleport to put yourself in tactically advantageous positions whether its use is limited or not just as well as you can be a complete idiot with it in either case, as well.

    Good things, though: I really did like the storyline. Some of the skills were ridiculously cool. If you play it with friends, especially while on skype or some other voice chat, it is an absolute blast, and it's pretty awesome even by yourself, especially before you get to Inferno. Honestly this post comes down much harder against D3 than I actually feel; if it weren't for the stash limitation I probably would have played it longer/would still be playing it. I can dress all my characters in pink, after all...
  11. maxicek

    maxicek IncGamers Member

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    All the itemisation changes cannot replace the fact is is fundamentally flawed at it's core.
    All icing, no cake. Which is pretty much how I feel about D3.

    They cut too much out of D2 when making D3
    - No stat points
    - No skill points
    - No crushing blow
    - No oSkills
    - No FHR
    - No FCR

    Basically it's dull. No creativity in character building.

    Also the story line is highly linear. Want to go into this area? Sorry you can't as you didn't speak to this guy first.


    (Icing = frosting if you speak "American English")
  12. Grisu

    Grisu IncGamers Member

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    Same what others said:

    D3: I don't like it the everything is based on Weapon Damage. And that I could get a 10x better weapon in the AH for a penny than my best self-found...also, it makes me feel alone, too. Also, I don't like it that they dictate how boss fights have to go: In D2 you could backpedal if a boss was too strong, like with Diablo himself: go through the TP, run to the CS from the WP again to get a better position and so on. You can't do that in D3. If you're playing HC self-found, there's no way to tell before a boss fight if you're weapon damage will be enough to beat the boss in time before it beats you.

    TL2: Quick and dirty. Like the old style of it, but I just don't get behind the story line...seems to random to me.

    PoE: only tried the beta, still had flaws in it, and the skill socketing system takes some time to get used to (more time than I spent with the game). Looks promising though.

    So yeah, I came back to D2, and still enjoy it more than all of the above, although once in a while I fire up D3 or TL2 again for an hour or two :)
  13. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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    Yea, this is really a problem. There's no investment in a character, I can change skills in under a minute with no penalty. There's just no investment in a character. There is actually some character gear breakpoints and builds to consider, but it really only maters at the top end of min/maxing, and pales in comparison to min/maxing in D2.
  14. zaphodbrx

    zaphodbrx IncGamers Member

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    I wrote a rather long and detailed post complaining about Torchlight 2 hereand I don't feel like repeating myself, basically, itemization is crappy, character building lacks depth and story is non existent. It is a nice game to play through with say one of each class and I logged about 100 hours in it and got my money's worth, that said it just does not compare to D2.

    I will wait for Path of exile to come out before trying it out.
  15. Moar

    Moar IncGamers Site Pal

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    D3: Bought it and tried it. Played through normal and had enough. It just wasn't my game.

    TL2: Nice game. Fun for a while (played 60-70 hours I guess) but gets boring. Same problem as D3. I don't want to have to take the skills you think I should take.

    PoE: Love it. It's free too! I did give them some money for my entertainment though. The game has a good feel to me. Character specialisation is there and you can beat the game without having to trade or to party. I still have to kill the last boss on the last difficulty though. Got sidetracked with racing and a new char. :)
  16. Kitteh

    Kitteh IncGamers Site Pal

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    TL2 I think (as Torchlight 1) is a fantastic play through, but with little desire to do it a second time, much like Borderlands. D3 (in my opinion) was just awful. The game itself I put 200 hours into and certainly got my money worth, but after the novelty of a new Diablo game wore off, it was just this awful game that I found hard to consider part of the Diablo franchise. I didn't find a single legendary or set in those 200 hours. On top of all that has been mentioned so far, the way Blizzard handled the launch and the subsequent 'mess', was just pathetic.

    PoE... Awesome! :)
  17. Sky Lynx

    Sky Lynx IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for responses! Really appreciate that.

    So far I played both of games very briefly and D3 stands out due to the lore and it feels more fleshed out. But AH situation sounds discouraging. It's always been so much a part of D2 to play self-found. I'm glad that they admitted the mistake of AH in the game, I hope they solve it somehow. For now I think I'll create some kind of rule for myself. Or who knows, maybe I'll find the ultimate dzen in gearing up and grinding to legendary items to sell. Either way, seems less diablo-esque. I'll give it a try.

    I've read about Path of Exile when several people mentioned it and it seems to have really good responses from players. Although skill system seems a little alienating.

    PS Somehow trying all those games I now want to play diablo 2 again lol.
  18. Kitteh

    Kitteh IncGamers Site Pal

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  19. Moar

    Moar IncGamers Site Pal

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    It's a bit overwhelming in the beginning, but once you have looked at the important keystones a bit more you'll get it. It really isn't as difficult as it looks. Give it a try and never look back (except for D2 that is). :)
  20. Drixx

    Drixx IncGamers Site Pal

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    I have to agree with Kestegs and others about Path of Exile. I got into the beta very early on (I wanted to be a Diamond Supporter but they wouldn't extend the date a couple weeks for me so their loss I guess). It is in a lot better shape now than it was then. It has its own problems, and it really is a spiritual successor to D2 in a lot of ways I think. Where it lacks the most is established story/lore but there's not much to do about that with a first game right?

    As for diablo 3, I can sum up the entire problem with the game for you - Your skills are not the source of your power. Your weapon (primarily) and stats (multiply off the weapon) are. As a result, your character is only as good as your weapon and the stats you pile up on your other gear. By moving from a skill based game to a weapon/stats based game, they inadvertently ripped out the soul of the Diablo franchise. I think they know this as they've recently commented about how some of the ideas from WoW crept into the Diablo development and consequently you have what you have now.

    They're going to continue to mess with itemization and such for awhile, but I think the reason the expansion has been pushed back (the leaked timetable had the expansion already released by now... we don't even have an announcement... this means they went back to the drawing board hard core) is that they are going to re-work the whole skills vs. gear dynamic in the game. Expect D3 expansion to feel a lot more like we all expected.

    Unfortunately the always online requirement is never going to go away.


    All of that said, Diablo 3 is actually a very fun game, and YES YOU CAN play self-found. In fact, it will extend the amount of enjoyment you get out of the game exponentially in my opinion. There is a Diablo 3 "single player" forum on these forums where you can set up "mp" games with folks who play that way to avoid playing with people who use the auction house.

    I use the auction house (mostly because it allowed me to make loads of real life money. yes, I'm a bad person I know) in softcore mode, and I play exclusively with friends and self-found in hardcore mode. Consequently in softcore mode I've got loads of hellfire rings and a CMWW wizard (can solo MP10 ubers) with the fastest breakpoint met and it's completely dull and risk free and boring.

    In hardcore though, I've got a paragon 3 demon hunter as my best character so far, with sheet damage of around 34k and that's amazing.

    My softcore wizard does millions of dps (literally millions, not exaggerating). My hardcore demon hunter is lucky to see a hit for over 25k .... and I have more fun with the self found hardcore character.

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